Torquay United Fans Forum

Macdonald
Gerring
Verma
Butler
Richards

Carmichael
Smith
Butler
Fisher
Briscoe

Lavercombe
McQuilkin
Ajala
Harding
Ives

At the game today, first time since Welling over Christmas, wanted to get one more in this season, thoroughly depressing though it was.

Well, I say that as I went with incredibly low expectations, which by the end of the game were mostly met. However at half time I was still moderately upbeat. Their goal was either amazing or a complete fluke, but either way. After that, Aldershot may have shaded the half but we did ok at times, and I thought the formation was working to some degree, albeit we didn't have the players in all positions to carry it off well because either a) they were unavailable, b) we don't have them anyway or c) if we do, their confidence is shot to sh*t or they don't seem to have a clue what they are supposed to be doing. I think 4-4-2 is basically dead as a formation, and although all 3 in midfield today had issues, there was something resembling solidity. I accept though that the players are probably confused with all the changes to personnel/positions/formations.

Lavercombe was the positive, did what was asked of him well, a very good save in the second half, came for some crosses and got a fist on them, kicked well - would be happy to see him in for the rest of the season. Could be a good back up next season?

I haven't been to many games this season, but I guess it's fair to say that the second half was a return to how we have been playing regularly of late. Two things stuck out for me. Firstly, how easily Aldershot got in behind us on a number of occasions, especially early in the half. Pearce (who I thought was ok up to his glaring miss) was awful positionally a few times during this period, and Downes, for all the times he gets his head on the ball, makes far too many errors on the ground and cannot recover, and I think he in particular leaves his inexperienced full back exposed. I'm not sure if I should criticise Ives for this as well, I think he has probably had enough game time so yes. I'm waffling, but basically rip up the defence and start again. Good as Pearce was and despite all the fans Downes has, I can't see a future for us with them at the club. Angus and an experienced, solid centre back please. Probably new full backs too. Secondly, why oh why do you ever bring on a sub when you are defending a corner ffs! Seem to remember this the last time we were at Aldershot. Not only a sub, but a change of formation and positions at the same time. By the time I worked out what we were doing we were 2-0 down, and i'm sure my brain works faster than some of our players'. And Ajala off at that stage, not sure about that.

First two subs were very predictable, Aldershot probably worked them out before the game, I pretty much had, and largely ineffective. But after the 2nd goal, I, like many other no doubt, had to struggle to maintain interest and focus. So depressing.

Not sure where we go from here. Hopefully positive and exciting times ahead. Certainly the doors should be revolving a lot. But how many times in the last 2+ years have we all thought we have hit rock bottom, and how many times have we been proven wrong. At least on the pitch until August nothing now matters greatly, and the club can concentrate on sorting out the mess, cracks and holes off the pitch.

Briscoe
Downes
Young
Berry
Pearce

Just in too. First win I've been to this calendar year, been a long time coming. May post something more tomorrow but I head to bed happy. Three weeks til The Crabble looking forward to it already!

Not said anything on here for a while, but get in! That's all for now. (skips away gingerly)

Young
Rice
Richards
Mcdonald
Briscoe

A Realist wrote:I hope they survive tbh. They would be a mighty big fish in the conference next season.

Very true. However, I'm sure most of us could take some enjoyment. Prefer us to do the job ourselves today (oh well) and failing that prefer Northampton to join us (oh well) so instead may have to settle for being happy for Wycombe and mildly appeased by a 'big' club coming down.

hector wrote:

It is pure revisionist crap that Stefano and one or two others are trying to peddle re: Knill. They use the rather pointless assertion that we were just 'one point' from safety' when he left. Well, after today we may be not much worse off than that anyway but what Stefano and his cohorts seem to forget, or conveniently overlook, is that there is absolutely not one single shred of evidence that suggests Knill would have kept us up. As seasons go on, gaps between the top and bottom widen. On Knill's points per game ratio, the gap would be wider had he stayed, than it is now.

They point to his last 5 games (mainly because the overall record was so damning) even though the last three went without a win (two of which were abject Devon derby defeats) and claim he amassed the massive total of 7 points out of 15, as some sort of achivement. Even that points rate would not have been good enough.

His overall record was not good enough and continued over the season would have seen us relegated.

His record over his last 'mythical' 5 games was not good enough and continued over the season would have seen us relegated.

Compare Hargreaves last 5 games and it is a completely different story to Knill's last 5 games and yet we have still been relegated with a win percentage that wipes the floor with Knill.

So just what is it about Knill's inability to win, his appalling points per game record, his awful football, his dreadful signings, his uninspiring presence, his inability to control the dressing room, his record as a manager getting the sack at 3 of the four clubs he has managed, his tactical ineptness, his inability to change a game? Other than all that I guess, as Stefano seems to think, he must be a football genius.

There are those that think that Knill should have been kept on and given the money to keep us up.

Has anyone with half a brain, seriously thought that bit through?

What did he do with the money he was given? Put the likes of Benyon, Hawley, Harding and Tonge on lengthy contracts.

If the club had given money to Knill it would have been throwing good after bad and would not have changed anything. Knill is the reason we are relegated.

7 ÷ (5 x 3) x (46 x 3) = 64.4 = upper mid table to play off form.

Not that the above calculation proves or disproves any argument, just showing that the extrapolation of 7 points from 5 games would have been a pretty acceptable record over the course of a season.

Meaningless of course though, just now more accurate.

AustrianAndyGull wrote:Guiseley beat North Ferriby 2-0 at home in the conf north play off first leg so not looking too good for Ferriby. I'd take Guiseley going up. Leeds, not far.

In the other tie it was a 2-2 draw between Hednesford and Altrincham.

In the southern section Ebbsfleet all but book their place in the final with a 4-0 rout of Bromley whilst Sutton draw 1-1 with Dover.

COME ON DOVER!!!!

Any of the 4 in the south would do me but fancy a trip to the Crabble so come on Dover.

Although a colleague lives in Bromley so may be able to get him along to a game there. Doesn't look likely now though. Drive past Ebbsfleet's ground on the way home from work sometimes if the traffic is playing up.

As for the North, went to uni in (dirty) Leeds so Guiseley would provide an opportunity for a reunion of sorts.

Will say firstly that I've never been to an MLB game, but have well over a hundred NPB games under my belt, all attended from 2003-07, including 54 games in 2007, culminating in my (other) team winning the championship. 2007 was certainly a bittersweet year on the other side of the world, guess I was somewhat fortunate not to be on the same continent for the Roberts debacle, but trust me it was still felt like a dagger.

I digress. NPB is a lot more musical than MLB. I am sure the atmosphere makes a difference. Do very much enjoy the American variety on TV mind. Got hooked by watching the D'backs come from the dead against the Yankees in 2001.

The game can be boring I agree. It can still be enthralling to watch a pitcher outdo the batter while not necessarily being exciting.

But once you get a runner on base, the dynamic changes, particularly if it's the leadoff hitter. It's a cliché but it's a game of inches. The bases are just the right distance apart. The field positions are tailored just enough to make a difference or otherwise. Maybe it's me but I live the mathematics of it. And that's before you add the stats (and I do live a good stat).

And, due to it's less interesting moments it is also the perfect sport to have a beer and a chat whilst watching.

It's not football though, baseball does not quote have that ability to surprise or provide that moment of ecstasy (but I direct you back to the D'backs in 2001 to show you it comes close).

Many have disagreed with me before mind. But I don't care.

Not that I think this kind of behaviour is right in any way, but watching their goal and the subsequent celebration on th FL show, my only thought was how that could have been us, and how I wished to again be part of such a moment.

So no points deduction for celebrations, a fine I'd imagine.

Scott Brehaut wrote: Nope, you're right. In your 489 odd posts about Billy, you've never said that.

You have, however said the following:
The rest, however, have all been, pretty much slating him (somewhat justified now) so you were consistent in your approach.

Now how long have you been waiting to post those two gems?

ferrarilover wrote:Thing with the squad is that, as bad as some people think it is, if we swap out Hawley and swap in Goodwin, over the course of this season, I don't think we'd have been relegated from L2. So, realistically, how bad can that squad really be in the Conference? It's hardly as though we ever got lucky, so we can't have that go any more against us than it already does.

If we beat Wycombe, our EPA earned points average (worked out, for those who know, in a similar fashion to ERA in baseball) under Hargreaves will be 54.76 (call it 55). So, with Chris at the helm and the other things which come together to dictate a club's on pitch performance, we'd have been safe with the players we've got. Some won't be here next season, but if we can replace them with players almost as good and give Chris the whole season, surely we've got little to fear?

Matt.

Don't disagree with the sentiment of your post at all.

However, your EPA stat presumably is how many points we would have got if we had Hargreaves as manager all season (didn't check the maths), whereas ERA shows how many runs a pitcher gives up over 9 inningd adjusted for factors outside of his control (other pitchers, fielding errors). Don't see the connection personally, but would be interested to know if the calculation is in some way adjusted for penalties that should have been scored or sendings off which shouldn't have happened (more of an opinion in football though, errors recorded on score sheet in baseball).

Sorry, I get a bit precious about baseball. Excellent sport, second best in the world.

Also, if my understanding of the EPA stay is correct and we lose on Saturday then I assume our total score under CH will be relegation worthy?

I am confident for next season though, as long as all involved with the club pull in the same direction. Promotion, or let's dream here, the title, and surely we will be up there with the most successful non league sides ever!