Any update on Lingy?

[Jerry]

Ling's record since about January last year has been poor.

We won every single game in January last year. In Feb we won 2 and lost 2. In March we won 6, drew 1 and lost 1. Yep, that's a really poor record!

Wasn't until the final month of the season that we slipped from our record breaking form. Even then we drew at Oxford with 10 men then drew at home with fellow play-off contenders Southend and Crewe (who we battered until the 5th minute of injury time!).

No matter what the form has been like this season, let's not rewrite history to fit current agendas.

[ferrarilover]

I like this, Jezza. Far too much history manipulation here for my liking. I still believe most vehemently that, had it not been for three million quids worth of Powell, we'd be in L1 now. We were good value for our league position last season. It's not popular, but winning 1-0 is equally as valid as winning 4-3 and it worked for us.
We were unbeaten in our first 7 games at home, winning 6, including knocking 4 past Rochdale. Up until late December, we were in the Playoff hunt without playing well and with a manager who was on the ball (possibly not his fault, but that doesn't help us), we may have made the necessary additions to the squad to see us win or draw the right games rather than lose them.
As badly as we have played at times this season, we've only been really well beaten once this season (4-1 Southend) and have gained scant reward from matches where reward was very much due to us.
We picked up something like 4 points from 40 and still didn't enter the drop zone, how bad can our start really have been?

Matt.

[Dave]

Likewise what happens if he come back and wins the first 5 games

Indeed supergulls, it is a real 50/50, but the point remains, the consequences of Martin Ling coming back and not winning any of his first 5 games do not bare thinking about, for the long term health and well being of Martin Ling first and foremost and the long term health and well being of the club.

Allowing Martin Ling to ressume as manager would be a massive gamble, one the club can simply not afford to get wrong. If he has to go sick again, where is the money coming from to bring another interim call it what you like manager, his job has only been harder after us fans have been treated these last few short weeks to some of the best pass and move attacking football we have seen in a long time.

What money that is availble needs to go towards supporting either Alan Knill if he wants the job full time or a.n.other in rebuilding the squad so we are competative on the field for years to come, so if we do as I think we will, survive in the league, we never have to go through this again for a very long time.

[LOFC Chris]

I think a good move might be to place Ling on a monthly rolling contract from the start of the season IF he comes back. He might go for that anyway knowing he probably won't have many other options, and he worked well on those conditions when he first took over at Orient, won many games, got his contract extended. I know he's been off with stress, and it might seem a harsh way to come back but he always used to revel in these situations. Wouldn't be so much of a risk for TUFC financially if he were to not do well on his return. Seems harsh, but at least your giving him his job back with something to prove.

[Dave]

Indeed LOFC Chris that could be a way forward, however I rather the club looked at a scouting role maybe for Lingy something he has proved very good at and takes the pressure off him.

[Dave]

I feel it's pretty unfair this criticism of Taylor. He only ended up as manager because of the unfortunate unforeseen circumstances.
He's supposed to be a coach and as a coach who was a defender he's certainly done a great job with our defence.
Last season we won all those 1-0s built on a rock solid back 4. Nicho was voted top left back in the division.
This year the defence has also done pretty well, especially as for so much of so many games we've been defending, yet they've not conceded that many which is why our goal difference is superior to other strugglers.
On top of that Lingy and him have managed to replace the loss of Robinson and Ellis with Saah, Downes and McDonald (all great finds), and brought in two young full backs who are exciting prospects.

I respect your opinion and the right to post it, however I can not agree with this part, in terms of the day to day footballing side of running things, there is no difference at all between being a coach and a manager, a football coach should be able to plan training sessions, you learn that on the most basic coaching courses, which I have done so can vouch for. A football coach should be able to plan match tactics and have a fair idea on substituions. I could write a small book on Shaun Taylors reign of terror.

However I will keep short and sweet, players describing training under Taylor as like being at Butlins, watching Taylor stand there motionless as the team managed just 2 shots on target in nearly 270 minutes of football, and worst of all we go to Aldershot a game we must not lose with an unfit Ian Morris on the bench. He then commits one of the biggest sins a coach could make, buy bringing on a subsitute( the same unfit Morris, who had no pace before he was injured for Stevens on the wing,doh) while the other team are waiting to take a corner which they then score from, suprise, surprise. That was the straw that broke the cammals back for me.

As for the clean sheets last season, being a S/T holder saw every home match saw 5 away aswell, more down to having one of the best keepers ever seen at this level than the defence in my opinion, this season think our centre back pairing has been good, but the full backs by and large have been woeful, so I would not say over all the team have been good as far as the back 4 are concerned, recently great credit must go to Pokey who has saved more than he should have had to.

[supergulls]

I think a good move might be to place Ling on a monthly rolling contract from the start of the season IF he comes back. He might go for that anyway knowing he probably won't have many other options, and he worked well on those conditions when he first took over at Orient, won many games, got his contract extended. I know he's been off with stress, and it might seem a harsh way to come back but he always used to revel in these situations. Wouldn't be so much of a risk for TUFC financially if he were to not do well on his return. Seems harsh, but at least your giving him his job back with something to prove.

Sorry but financially why would Martin do that he already has a year rolling contract. Who in their right mind would swap that for a month rolling contract.

[supergulls]

At the end of the day as Lofc Chris said everyone has jumped to the conclusion it's depression, it could be a number of stress related illnesses as stated before. What I will tell you and it is fact not a assumption or fiction. Martin Ling has a year rolling contract at the present time and he is completely entitled to take up his role as manager when he is fit enough to do so. The only way this can change is if the board pay him the relevant compensation. Now for a conservative guess I would place that at around 75-100k I don't see us having that money laying around at the present time.

[AustrianAndyGull]

At the end of the day as Lofc Chris said everyone has jumped to the conclusion it's depression, it could be a number of stress related illnesses as stated before. What I will tell you and it is fact not a assumption or fiction. Martin Ling has a year rolling contract at the present time and he is completely entitled to take up his role as manager when he is fit enough to do so. The only way this can change is if the board pay him the relevant compensation. Now for a conservative guess I would place that at around 75-100k I don't see us having that money laying around at the present time.

Well the board need to find it then otherwise if next season starts in a similar vein football wise, the optimism will soon drain and fans will stay away because they simply don't wish to see us defend every week. We'll lose money anyway.

What the board need to realise is that Martin is a key figurehead at a professional football club, he doesn't work in Wilko's who would be pretty much unaffected by a staff member going off ill or indeed leaving. Martin will be under even more pressure if he were to return, heavily scrutinised and unlike Wilko's, there are thousands of people connected to the club who would suffer if it went wrong including the fans. The pressure on him will be massive.

If Martin coming back to the club leads to success, an improvement in football and everyone having 100% confidence in him ( fairly or unfairly ) then i'll buy each one of you a new house in Australia.

That's the reality of it and i cannot believe we are even discussing this. I don't know what Martin feels but IMO anything other than an amicable parting of the ways or a move for Martin within the club to a less pressured role would be a gigantic mistake and one which we'd unecessarily have to recover from.

[AustrianAndyGull]

I didn't mean to be disrespectful to all you with a different opinion when i said i can't belive we are discussing this. Obviously you have your opinions and i respect that but opinions aside i see Martin not returning as a sound COMMON SENSE decision all round and that is why i am struggling to see why people think it's a good idea to have him back. It all points to a potential disaster which, as we are Torquay will probably happen. Why put ourselves in that position regardless of in how much regard we hold Martin?

Thanks

[popside bob]

If it was the job that caused Martin’s health problems and he does take charge of the club again as seems likely then I do hope he is fully recovered. Mental illness can be a lonely place to be. I cannot see him getting the support of the fans if things do not start well. He seemed to be getting abuse from some fans in The Bench which affected him earlier in the season. I think all his tactics and results will be magnified if we don’t seem to be doing well, rightly or wrongly.
Would you want to put yourself back in the same situation that caused your problem to start with if you don’t feel 100% fit. There is nothing more important than your health .

[Dave]

Where does this everyone has jumped to the conclusion Martin Ling is suffering from depression come from, I just been right back through 6 pages of postings from when CP Gull posted the update, and there are only 3 posts that mention depression, would hardly call that everyone.

So are you supergulls saying that the club have signed Martin Ling up to a rolling contract they can not get out of, are we saying this rolling 1 year contract has no termination clause, or end date, are we saying that if Martin decides he wants to continue there is nothing the club can about it with out paying a whopping great compensation package out.

If your right supergulls, then I will have lost all remaining faith in our board to run this club with out making one mistake after another, and another, surely after that rather expensive balls up over Colin Lee's contract and pay out, our board have not gone and made the self same mistake with Martin Ling.

Judging by some of the posts on this site and listening to people talk as they file out of the ground etc, etc, Martin Ling's job will be a lot, lot harder as a large % do not support his return, if he came back he would have to hit the ground running and win back supporters, as said a bad start to the season which may or may not happen would leave the club facing the same situation we are in now. Can the club afford to pay off Martin Ling ? Andy's right, more the case. Can the club afford not to pay off Martin Ling ?

[ferrarilover]

Martin went sick as of Jan 28th 2013. He had been manager since June 13th 2011. During his time at the helm, his League record was as follows:

Played: 72
Won: 31 (43%)
Draw: 22 (30%)
Lost: 19 (27%)
For: 97
Against: 83
GD + 14
Points: 115 (53%)
Points per game: 1.60
Goals for per game: 1.35
Goals against per game: 1.15
Points per goal for: 1.18

Without Ling, the club have managed...

Played: 14
Won: 3 (21%)
Draw: 3 (21%)
Lost: 8 (58%)
For: 12
Against: 19
GD: -7
Points: 12 (28%)
Points per game: 0.86
Goals for per game: 0.86
Goals against per game: 1.36
Points per goal for: 1.00

With Ling at the helm, we were better in every single department. I haven't cherry picked these stats, I've taken those which are relevant to the business of winning football matches and doing well in the division. Of course, one can blame all sorts of factors which the numbers alone cannot indicate, but from a purely factual basis, we are a much better side with Ling about than we are without him. We score more goals, win more games, concede fewer, earn more points for every goal we score. In every way, we are a better side with Dinger here. If he's been sick, lovely, if he's been at Betty Ford, not so lovely, but it won't change the fact that he's a good sort to have around the club if your intentions are to win (considerably) more of your matches than you lose and to do well in the league table.

I'm no great fan of Ling, I'm not here to act as his advocate, I just don't see the merit in sacking a bloke who was doing a fine job of taking the club in the right direction but seems to be getting stick for a losing streak over which he had absolutely no control because he was confined to his sick bed some 200 miles distant.

Matt.

[chippygull]

[Yellow4life]

Some would say, he has a better record in charge than when he isn't because we had a better team last season and when he went ill the team was out of form so they could hardly pick it up immediately.