I would drop Rene....

[AustrianAndyGull]

Matters not, he's only got 5 games (MAX) left as a Torquay player so if he's not interested when he knows we are dire need of his goals and services for these last 5 then better he leaves asap.

[ferrarilover]

It's tough to say it's any of those things, Scotty. Seems to me that he never much cared for TUFC and sees us as a stepping stone to bigger and better things. It looks to be a classic case of a guy thinking he is much better than he is. I'm sure he'd do a mediocre job in L1 for Preston or Stevenage. He might even be seen as a bit of a secret speciality weapon for the MK Dons or Crawley, but he's never going to be a Championship player so long as he has a hole in his arse.
He looks lovely in L2 where he is just about big enough to bully defenders and just about quick footed enough to get himself out of trouble if he's fronted up his man, but at a higher level where the defenders will be bigger and stronger than him (he's a unit, but he ain't no Akinfatboy) and quicker and cleverer than him, he won't stand too much of a chance. He doesn't really have any work rate at all. Imagine Berbatov (or Scotty Rendell) but without that knack of just being precisely where he needs to be in order to score goals. If you're going to progress beyond L2 (or L1) as a striker, you have to spend a couple of years making defenders at our level look a bit silly. Le Fondre did it, Pope might do it, although he needs a little bit more time at this level first. Rene, unfortuantely, hasn't done it. He's scored some lovely goals, but he's a bit of a L2 standard Jack-of-all-trades and that isn't what will attract the big names. If he worked as hard as Benners in addition to everything else he does, then he would be a serious prospect. If he looked as good a finisher as Billy Kee (what's happened to him, by the way?), he'd be in with a shout at the Championship. If he had the range of passing of Nathan Craig, he'd be a shoe it. But he doesn't, and that is what will stop him getting that prime job he always seems to think he deserves.

Matt.

Should point out that I don't have anything against Rene, but his girlfriend has a silly job, so I'd like to see him shipped out as soon as possible.

[AustrianAndyGull]

Don't know about the last bit Matt but the rest is spot on.

[ferrarilover]

I'm always a bit wary of being critical of the boys, since they rarely do it deliberately, but I get the impression that Rene is working at about 30% effort because he feels he needn't do more in order to progress to a higher division and bigger money. That disappoints me and I'd live to find out that he is, in fact, just a rubbish player doing his best but looking like a class player not trying very hard at all.

Matt.

[tauntongull]

Personally, given his lack of real effort and poor performances over recent games I would agree with this thread. Rene simply hasn't performed for me anywhere near his full potential. His work rate was obvious in the early part of the season but clearly he has lost interest, probably fueled by playing a lone striker role for a significant part of the season. I have never been one for including a player because of his name; you have to earn your place just like any other player.

I know 2 goals in the Devon Bowl doesn't actually qualify you as a first team striker but I would like to see more of Ashley before making any rash decisions. He clearly has goals in him and after all he isn't going to get better without an opportunity. I am sure fear of not playing Rene will keep things as they are but I wonder come the end of the season whether this will have been the right decision.

I would almost go as far as to say as he looks like he already has his next move sorted! - let's hope he takes Oastler with him!

[RN Gull]

I agree tauntongull. Rene was clearly dis-interested yesterday in my view, he did not have that edge about him. His body language suggested he was not up for a battle. Also i noticed that when Brasso shouted an instruction at him he just laughed! I too would give young Ashley another go.

[royalgull]

You just can't drop the top scorer and main goal getter at this stage of the season, Rene probably just needs a goal and he'll put his chest out again and be back to his best. i have more tolerance for him than most of our players simply because he is one of very few League standard players we have in our team.

I thought Benyon was decent at Northampton, he should have scored near the end but was a constant menace, busy and looked up for the battle. He should be a good partner for Rene but the issues were out wide, we didn't get enough decent crosses into the box. Our wide players had a 10minute spell in the 2nd half where we looked dangerous and ironically they scored during that period.

I've been worried about this season since the Harrogate game and from when I saw us first hand at Oxford, had it not been for Rice, Saah and Downes at Oxford we'd have got done 3-0 by a pitiful side.

Downes should come back into the team for Saturday, MacDonald may have some potential but he was bullied by Platt at Northampton and Hanson did the exact same to us on Monday. Martin Allen sides usually play off the big man as well, most likely to be Kedwell so you have to bring in the experienced centre half for this game.

2 wins out of 4 should be enough, can we win 2 from Gillingham, Morecambe, Barnet and Bristol Rovers? Tough to be honest, the 2 that look most winnable are the middle 2 but we rarely seem to win at Morecambe and Barnet have hit some form in the last 4-6 weeks. i really fear for us to be totally honest.

[ferrarilover]

That's not really the case though, is it Royal. He started off the season well, got loads in not many, then just stopped scoring. He got one against Wimbledon, a catalyst? No, he then got two penalties in two games against Exeter and one at Cheltenham which the keeper threw in his own net. Hardly kicking on. He then got a penalty against Dagenham and a deflection he knew nothing about against York. In truth, he has scored one decent goal (the equaliser against AFCW) in 5.5 months.

You say he's league standard, and he may well be, but it's no good if that is all unrealised potential. A Formula 1 car has the potential to be extremely fast, but if it's only being driven at 12mph, then its potential is meaningless. If Rene is all that good, he needs to start showing it by scoring goals, which, for all his other good work, is what he is on the pitch for. It's bugger all good having 11 flair players and no one to stick the ball in the net if you lose 1-0 every week having played some seriously sexy football.

Even before Knilly, we played our best games when Rene was banned for two matches. Yeoman came in and was a constant goalscoring threat, even if he didn't find the goal. The chances are that Rene wouldn't have either, so we lost no goals but gained quite a lot of workrate. Rene, in this mood where he can't be arsed, is about as useful as a [insert your own joke here]. We'd be better off with someone else in there who might bother to try, rather than flouncing around and getting booked every 5 minutes.

Matt.

[AustrianAndyGull]

Rene worked really hard for the first few months of the season and scored a shed load of goals too but like you say Matt, these last 3 months or so he just can't be arsed with it all and i say if he doesn't show any desire or passion at Gillingham then end his Torquay career 3 games early. I 'd rather have someone in like Yeoman who will put in the effort for the length of time he's on the pitch. Now isn't the time to be feeling sorry for Rene, we're seriously in the sh*t and if he doesn't want to help us get out of it by working his nuts of every minute of every remaining game then he cango now, we don't need his sulking anymore.

[brucie]

I have got to say that I thought Howe looked disinterested at Northampton as well. In all fairness to him though he cannot afford to get booked which must be stopping his natural aggression.
Its a fair point about Yeoman - against WImbledon and Rotherham he was our best player and was taken off in the latter game and hasn't been seen since. Oastler was appalling again yesterday and I still can't see he is a better player than Leadbitter.

[tauntongull]

When you are in a relegation scrap, players putting in 100% for the cause is an absolute must. I have serious reservations that Rene will do that.

If the past 4 or 5 games are anything to go by, I very much doubt we will see anything different from Rene and here lies the problem for me; one more card and its an early end to his season which if I am honest, I don't think he will be losing sleep about and the cynic in me says he may actually want this . I would always prefer to watch a team of 11 players desperate to impress and perform rather than play someone just because we signed them as our main striker. We really are in 's'*t' or bust territory now. We have to go out and win as many of our remaining games. Being overly defensive has contributed to the mess we find ourselves in. At least with attacking football the crowd will contribute - against Bradford there was little or nothing to cheer about. If you want the crowd to get behind the players and really make Plainmoor a fortress you need to give the crowd something to cheer about. It did feel like I was watching a Sunday league side at a couple of points during the game.

Having attended the Northampton game I do scratch my head and wonder how the side can play to two extremes in the matter of 3 days. That said, I still think Rene wouldn't have scored at Northampton. Still when my son and I left the ground, even though we lost, we both felt the performance was there. On Saturday at Bradford, we seemed to take 3 steps back.

Like many others I have serious concerns that we may go down; however if fate does dictate we do - then we should go all guns blazing and not fizzle out like a wet firework!

[royalgull]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/tea ... op-scorers

4 games to go, goals/points of desperate need. you want to drop Howe? Seriously?

Howe has proven himself not just this season but also last season that he is more than good enough to play in the football league, his goal record and overall performance level for that length of time is more than good enough. It's not his fault he's surrounded by absolute crud who don't create anything for him.

is he slightly out of form? yes but having played the majority of our games he's probably struggling for a bit of motivation born purely out of a frustration of being the only player in our side with a football brain as 10 cloggers behind him aimlessly launch another ball somewhere within 30 yards of his direction.

I dunno I just don't buy it that he doesn't try or lacks effort, it's his style he's almost a bit Berbatov like but there's no way Fulham would ever drop their main striker either. People have different styles, they 'work hard' in different ways, it doesn't have to be chasing a 30 yard aimless nothing ball to show that. If we had 11 Mansell's doing that we'd go down because there would be no creativity, no flair, no chances made or scored. It's all about having a balance. With our style of play aka awful, I don't think having 2 little uns up there chasing nothing balls is going to help our situation of trying to win 2 out of 4 games.

[tauntongull]

Royalgull, I am merely saying that I believe that his form and contribution (even since the arrival of Elliot) have been poor. Initially I read posts saying that this was because the ball was played up in the air and he prefers to have the ball played to his feet. During the last 3 or 4 games I have seen the ball played to his feet on countless occasions only for him to lose possession or flick the ball on to the opposition. A strong front man like Rene should be more than capable of holding the ball up to allow the midfield to join the attack. I also think that he plays too deep on occasions - even out wide rather than being where I would like him to be - in the box.

All that said, it is a gamble but if the same performance level is maintained during the next couple of games would we have preferred to have at least attacked the opposition with pace and commitment - both qualities I think Yeoman possesses.

I hope your faith in Rene is well placed and I want to believe that he can contribute to us staying up. I am not berating the team or condemning us to relegation. I will support the team as I have done whether up or down next season. Equally I am not one of the 'told you so here is my post from March' brigade either. Indeed I hope I am able to say you had it right if things stay as they are and we do stay up.

There really is never a dull moment following TUFC.

[Dave]

No do not drop Rene, you play your strongest team. One problem for me is Rene is one yellow from missing 3 matchs, in his performance there was plenty of evidence that is playing on his mind, he is a powerful lad and throwing his weight around is part of Rene's game.

Rene clearly seeemd to be pulling out of 50/50's that he would normaly go for, and whether he has been told or is doing it of his own back against Bradford he also was keeping his trap firmly shut, and thats the thing if you take the passion out of a player like Rene Howe, you take away a big part of the player.

I would be tempted to take him to one side and say get out there and play like Rene Howe, if you get booked so be it, we will deal with it, because we need to win games and fast and we need the old Rene Howe back.

[Gullscorer]

But it's not just Rene is it? It's most of the team, for most of the season, and it's mostly psychological. But, Monday's game apart, they have been on a good run recently. No reason why they cannot recover their determination and self-belief and win a couple more games. Those who cannot should be substituted or dropped.