Salisbury v Torquay - PSF thread

Fonda · Post by **Fonda** » 21 Jul 2013, 12:08

Rendell has obviously been short of games - just as Benyon was when he came back. I wonder if we should have ditched him after a couple of games too? Had we done, there certainly wouldn't have been a clamour for us to sign him as there was at season end. I wasn't there yesterday (or against Yeovil), so perhaps he really is useless now. But I think it's more likely he simply needs to get fit. He was a decent League 2 striker a couple of years ago, and he isn't that old. Has he really just lost all ability? I'd still be quite satisfied if Rendell was one of 4 strikers at the start of the season (Benners, Yeoman, Rendell + 1). And reckon that by September/October we'd see the benefits of persevering with him. Or maybe he is just rubbish.

As for the panic around lack of signings. We're two players short of a decent starting 11. Probably 3 short of a complete squad. It's not a disaster by any means. I'd personally prefer a more 'authentic' CB than Cooper, but I'm more than happy to trust Knill's opinion on his quality. As I am with Rendell in fact.

wodger of awabia · Post by **wodger of awabia** » 21 Jul 2013, 12:18

Richinns wrote:In Knill we trust. I am not panicking yet about these two key positions. What he has brought in thus far has given me confidence he will find the right players.

I think we are all pleased with the players that he has bought in so far, but the job is nowhere near finished as yet! None of us know what is going on, by mid week we could all be writing on this forum expressing admiration at the quality of the central defender & C.F. that he has just signed (whether permanent or season loan). I would have thought that he would have already known enough about Cooper by reputation to sign him assuming that he is not "crocked" or wanting too much money. If money was going to be a problem then I assume that Cooper would not have come down to trial. Perhaps in the next day or so we will all read that he has been signed.
I.M.O. with less than two weeks to go it is a little late to start a new search to sign the backbone of the team, & believe that the current situation could be described as worrying.
Worrying as you know, is not the same as "panicking".

Fonda · Post by **Fonda** » 21 Jul 2013, 12:22

wodger of awabia wrote:
I think we are all pleased with the players that he has bought in so far, but the job is nowhere near finished as yet! None of us know what is going on, by mid week we could all be writing on this forum expressing admiration at the quality of the central defender & C.F. that he has just signed (whether permanent or season loan). I would have thought that he would have already known enough about Cooper by reputation to sign him assuming that he is not "crocked" or wanting too much money. If money was going to be a problem then I assume that Cooper would not have come down to trial. Perhaps in the next day or so we will all read that he has been signed.
I.M.O. with less than two weeks to go it is a little late to start a new search to sign the backbone of the team, & believe that the current situation could be described as worrying.
Worrying as you know, is not the same as "panicking".

Indeed.

AustrianAndyGull · Post by **AustrianAndyGull** » 21 Jul 2013, 12:25

As with the relegation battle last season, nobody really KNEW if we were going to go down or not until the time had passed and so in this, nobody really knows who Knill will bring in and so we just have to wait. It doesn't look greatly promising on the face of it with 12 days left I admit but many players will be becoming desperate to find a club and we may stumble upon a real gem. We still have 12 days and until we see our full squad revealed before 3pm a week Saturday then we should all be fully confident and supportive of Knill and what he is trying to achieve in these remaining days.

wodger of awabia · Post by **wodger of awabia** » 21 Jul 2013, 12:59

AustrianAndyGull wrote:As with the relegation battle last season, nobody really KNEW if we were going to go down or not until the time had passed and so in this, nobody really knows who Knill will bring in and so we just have to wait. It doesn't look greatly promising on the face of it with 12 days left I admit but many players will be becoming desperate to find a club and we may stumble upon a real gem. We still have 12 days and until we see our full squad revealed before 3pm a week Saturday then we should all be fully confident and supportive of Knill and what he is trying to achieve in these remaining days.

I don't know, but I think it's unlikely that any real gems will be found in the "desperate box"

AustrianAndyGull · Post by **AustrianAndyGull** » 21 Jul 2013, 13:14

Rene for example?

Or Joe Oastler? He is at Aldershot desperate for a contract I would assume after being released by us and left to fend for himself. I've seen Joe in his first season with us and I was very impressed. He has had one bad season as most did last but if it's a blip and an error Knill letting him go then he could be a real gem in the desperate box for Aldershot. Just because Knill let him go doesn't mean Joe isn't a good player. Knill isn't Sir Alex and is likely to make lots and lots of mistakes in judgement. See where i'm coming from?

Mattpuma · Post by **Mattpuma** » 21 Jul 2013, 13:38

Rendell is a busted flush. We should be looking forward. He had his chance and he blew it.

wodger of awabia · Post by **wodger of awabia** » 21 Jul 2013, 14:21

AustrianAndyGull wrote:Rene for example?

Or Joe Oastler? He is at Aldershot desperate for a contract I would assume after being released by us and left to fend for himself. I've seen Joe in his first season with us and I was very impressed. He has had one bad season as most did last but if it's a blip and an error Knill letting him go then he could be a real gem in the desperate box for Aldershot. Just because Knill let him go doesn't mean Joe isn't a good player. Knill isn't Sir Alex and is likely to make lots and lots of mistakes in judgement. See where i'm coming from?

Yes, most managers would not touch Rene with a barge pole but Ling succeeded in getting him on track.
You are right there will most likely be several decent young players in the "desperate box" but it is unlikely that any of them will have reached "gem" status. Can Knill afford to take a chance on them? & is he good enough to recognize them?

AustrianAndyGull · Post by **AustrianAndyGull** » 21 Jul 2013, 14:27

That is the big question wodge. At the minute we have to take a gamble on Rendell and/or Cooper and hope they can rekindle past form unless Knill has others lined up. My guess is that he doesn't as he would already be trialling them therefore it looks like a last minute throw of the desperation dice should he not give Rendell and Cooper contracts and that means getting in someone else from the 'desperate box'. It doesn't sound good with 2 critical positions to fill but we'll have to wait and see if the big questions are answered. Whatever happens, he'll have to take a big chance on someone, there is no other option.

Fonda · Post by **Fonda** » 21 Jul 2013, 14:46

Not all players are prepared to accept the offer of a trial. Some players would be offended at being asked to complete one. It might be that we have other options, who are waiting for an acceptable offer (be that from us, or someone else). Offering trials to players not only gives them a chance to impress, it adds pressure to other targets that are dragging their heels. If we've tried to sign Striker A without success, by offering Striker B a trial, it applies pressure to Striker A, who suddenly fears another vacant space getting filled...

AustrianAndyGull · Post by **AustrianAndyGull** » 21 Jul 2013, 14:56

I accept what you are saying but with 12 days left before the season starts i'd think any player adopting this approach is a bit of a t*t. To risk being without a club or having to beg cap in hand for the same deal they were offered before because of this is nothing short of lunacy and for what? A few measly quid more? We're not talking megabucks here, they are just greedy in my opinion and if we have any of them line up they i'd rather we signed Rendell and Cooper and told these others 'waiting in the wings' to f*ck off they've had their chance.

Even Rene has bitten the bullet and got fixed up now so anyone else out there not just because they think they are better than they are or are wanting a few extra pence must be complete boneheads!

AustrianAndyGull · Post by **AustrianAndyGull** » 21 Jul 2013, 14:58

Thanks though Fonda for giving me an insight into how it all works as I presumed everything was pretty straight forward at our level and not like a game of poker. I had no idea and it may change my opinion on some things and players now.

Fonda · Post by **Fonda** » 21 Jul 2013, 15:11

It does appear to be 'ego' (and in some cases, it almost certainly is), but your description of a 'game of poker' is most apt. If a player has 2 or 3 interested clubs, and is in negotiation with them, a trial might not be in their best interest. Perform badly in said trial, and suddenly the options start reducing.

wodger of awabia · Post by **wodger of awabia** » 21 Jul 2013, 15:15

Fonda wrote:Not all players are prepared to accept the offer of a trial. Some players would be offended at being asked to complete one. It might be that we have other options, who are waiting for an acceptable offer (be that from us, or someone else). Offering trials to players not only gives them a chance to impress, it adds pressure to other targets that are dragging their heels. If we've tried to sign Striker A without success, by offering Striker B a trial, it applies pressure to Striker A, who suddenly fears another vacant space getting filled...

This is because they may already have an acceptable, or several offers to consider, & do not need to prove their fitness following serious long term injury. Possibly you are right & there are several players that have a "fall back" contract waiting for them to sign at Torquay. Knill may be waiting for one or two of these players to sign the contract that he has offered them.
Do we really want players that sign as a last resort?

Fonda · Post by **Fonda** » 21 Jul 2013, 15:19

I would suggest it's wishful thinking to consider us anything but a 'last resort' in most cases. Geography has never been in our favour (look at the Saah situation for recent evidence of this), we are generally considered likely strugglers, and I doubt we pay masses. It's quite understandable if players are waiting on offers from 'bigger' clubs with better prospects, before committing to us. Personally, I don't care as long as if/when they get here they give their all.

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