Seating issues

[Alpine Joe]

Ferrarilover

You can't point to yet more rule violations as proof of how a perfectly sound system works, because it's not being used properly. That's like saying that self service tills don't work properly because people nick stuff. That's not the fault of the self service tills

It's not being used properly because it doesn't give people what they want. Therefore I don't believe it deserves to be titled a 'perfectly sound system' If it provided consumers with what they required the temptation to violate the rules would greatly diminish or go away completely.

The self service tills ARE working properly in the eyes of the consumer. The consumer's aim is to go home with their groceries having paid as little as possible for them. if the self service tills facilitate this option by allowing you to get stuff without paying for it, then people will be perfectly happy with the service they provide. it's no good the store boss moaning to his area manager that it's a perfectly sound system when the evidence of the lost stock proves that it isn't. The facts show that it's not as sound as the old system of having check out girls if your stock is now being nicked in greater quantities.

I abided by the rules and sat next to a Bristol Rovers fan all match. He abided by the rules and sat by a Torquay fan all match, but we would both have preferred the freedom to sit with our own fans rather than be forced by the seat allocation system to sit with a rival. I told him there was a perfectly sound system that said he should miss the match rather than buy a ticket for the Torquay section. Human nature, and the desire to see your team play meant that he decided to choose the 'rule violation' option, rather than miss the game.

I've no objection to Matt peddling the party line, but when policies are implemented that are in direct conflict with what a significant proportion of supporters would prefer, it has to be acknowledged that there is another viewpoint other than that of the Plainmoor management.

Incidentally I agree fully that fans of opposing teams SHOULD be able to stand or sit next to each other for the duration of a match. I got on well with my new acquaintance from Bristol and we shook hands at full time. Yet we all know that those people who found themselves being jostled or abused by Rovers fans found little consolation in continuing to tell themselves it was a 'perfectly sound system'....the proof of the pudding was in the eating for them. and it's no secret that the situation would have been several times as bad if we'd found ourselves relegated on the last day, with tempers running that much higher.

I'm convinced that heels have been dug in sufficiently that an 'incident' will be needed before sanity returns. After all, the masses are even offering to pay first before they go back to enjoying 'self service' on Bristow's Bench....butt out and stop packing my bags for me !!

[Kernowgull]

I don't actually care if I sit in my own seat or not. I quite happily admit that last season I didn't sit in my allocated seat on a number of occasions as I went with friends/relatives and quite reasonably I would have thought we wanted to sit together.
I arrived late on saturday due to the traffic and only managed to get in the ground at two minutes to three.
There wasn't much room in the stand by that time and my seat was occupied by someone who was on a stag do I guess because there were about twenty or so dressed in the same shirts.
Obviously it would have been churlish of me to ask one of them to move.
There was a queue outside the ground when I got in and there were a hell of a lot of latecomers who were wandering up and down the stand as late as 3.10pm looking at their tickets and trying to marry up where their seats were.
Are your seriously suggesting that the stewards would enforce the ruling of seating by numbers. It would only take I reckon two people sat in the wrong seats to cause chaos. People getting pissed off, trying to watch the game whilst being made to play musical chairs.
Far from being common sense, its actually an unworkable system.
I suppose the other issue might be - say a group of four people paid at the turnstile. There wouldn't even be any guarantee that they would get four consecutively numbered seats.
That has got to be a nonsense.
Not having allocated seat numbers is by far and away a better system. It would encourage people to turn up earlier perhaps and those that do would get the pick of the seats - thats a fairer system as well.
As I said before it would be then far easier for latecomers to identify where there are spare seats to sit in.

This pretty much says exactly what I wanted to say but couldn't be arsed to write. To pacify those who qant to book in advance, that options should still be available, up until whatever time is required to mark the seats booked with reserved signs prior to opening.

[cambgull]

I really don't see the problem here, at all.

If you want a specific seat, then book in advance or turn up early on the day and speak to the reception desk. If you don't care where you sit, turn up at the turnstile. A bit like you would do, I don't know, literally EVERYWHERE ELSE.

I'm on my way back down to Devon in a week or so and whilst booking my ticket on the train, I had the option to choose whether I wanted a window seat, an aisle seat, a seat with a table, a seat with a plug point to charge my phone, etc. If I turned up at the station 10 minutes before the train left, I wouldn't get that option. When I get on the train on Saturday, I will go to my seat and sit in it. If someone is sat in it, then I will stare at the reserved ticket, raise my eyebrows at them and if they don't move quick sharp, I will insert the headrest where the sun doesn't shine, turf them out and make them sit back with the commoners fighting for breathing space.

[ferrarilover]

But Luke, what if someone who actually bought a plane ticket is sat in your seat, surely that shows your system to be useless... :}

Joe, you've done it again, you've cited Bristol Rovers fans sat in the home end as evidence that the allocated seat system doesn't work. I'm not explaining again why that's wrong, but it is, just as it was 2 hours ago when you last said it.

Sit in the seat your are given (or that you choose, in fact). If you are really that fussed about sitting somewhere specific, then the club have made it very easy for you to do so. You can buy online, over the phone or by carrier pigeon (I guess). If none of these options suits you, then I'm afraid the club really isn't at fault. It has a duty to offer fans the option to buy tickets in a number of convenient ways. It has fulfilled that obligation (to a greater extent than some other clubs). To ask more is unreasonable.

The allocated seating system avoids confrontation by providing a definitive ruling as to who has a right to which seat. Without that, we have an ambiguous situation where, in the event of a dispute, one party risks being arbitrarily adjudged to be without claim to a seat while another party, without necessarily having greater claim over the seat, is allowed to remain. The chances are that the mightier of the parties will win out.

In the case of allocated seating, when Terry turns up at his purchased seat and Bill is sat in it. Terry says to Bill, "excuse me, old boy, I think you're in my seat." Bill, being a hefty, but stupid individual retorts, "piss off grandad, this is my seat and I'll deck you if you say otherwise".
Now, Terry has a ticket with his corresponding seat number on it, so he goes to the stewards and explains the story and the steward moves Bill to a different seat and Terry is happy.
Without allocated seating, the steward decides he's better off (and less likely to get punched on the nose) simply by telling Terry to sit elsewhere and not cause a fuss.
The second scenario is unacceptable in a fair and balanced society. These aren't prehistoric times, we don't bend to the will of the strongest clansmen, we are more advanced than that, we have decided a system of rules on order to redress the balance and offer equality across the board. In this instance, those capable of realising that they wish to sit in a specific seat and that, accordingly, others may wish to do similar, sufficiently early on benefit from their foresight by being able to use brain rather than brawn to secure that premium viewing spot.

There is no sensible argument against the allocated seating system. Certainly none has been presented here. Simply sit in the seat you are allocated. If you are really that bothered (quite understandable), then book early to avoid disappointment.

The same is true of the Pop side. For busy games, we arrive early so as to avoid being displaced from our usual spot by interlopers. We do this because we care about where we stand. Those who do not turn up at 14:55 and get lumbered with a crap view. Those who do care, but still turn up at 14:55 are victims of Darwinian selection, so don't get to enjoy their lives as much as those of us with more foresight.

Matt.

[Alpine Joe]

Ferrarilover

If you are really that fussed about sitting somewhere specific, then the club have made it very easy for you to do so. You can buy online, over the phone or by carrier pigeon

(£) As you suggest Matt we could probably go round in circles and get no nearer to understanding each other. I've been attempting to say the opposite to your quote above i.e that it is the club that is really that fussed about me sitting somewhere specific, not me ! I'm asking not to be forced into a specific seat.

Hopefully at least someone has understood the points I was making even if they don't agree with them :~D

[brucie]

Not sure that I understand part of your argument really. You say that for a busy match you turn up early so you can stand in your normal place. Well that opportunity is denied if you sit in Bristows Bench.
Having sat in the grandstand and more latterly the bench I would definately say that the system for the old grandstand whereby you could sit in any seat which wasn't reserved worked far better.
With less capacity than the bench it still worked better for the bigger matches as well.
Latecomers could easily identify where there were spare seats and there was never the debacle which took place on saturday (and that was only with a crowd of 3500)
I wouldn't dream of attending any of the home matches with Portsmouth,Plymouth,Bristol Rovers and the like this season.
It just isn't worth the hassle.

[AustrianAndyGull]

Can't you go in the pop for those games Brucie?

[cambgull]

But Luke, what if someone who actually bought a plane ticket is sat in your seat, surely that shows your system to be useless... :}

If they'd bought a plane ticket they'd be on very much the wrong form of mass transit. The system is very much not useless, as long as you're bigger than them. They soon move when they see me rocking up.

[ferrarilover]

Not sure that I understand part of your argument really. You say that for a busy match you turn up early so you can stand in your normal place. Well that opportunity is denied if you sit in Bristows Bench.
Having sat in the grandstand and more latterly the bench I would definately say that the system for the old grandstand whereby you could sit in any seat which wasn't reserved worked far better.
With less capacity than the bench it still worked better for the bigger matches as well.
Latecomers could easily identify where there were spare seats and there was never the debacle which took place on saturday (and that was only with a crowd of 3500)
I wouldn't dream of attending any of the home matches with Portsmouth,Plymouth,Bristol Rovers and the like this season.
It just isn't worth the hassle.

Of course it isn't denied, it's how ticketing has worked, basically, since ticketing was invented.

If you always wish to sit in seat 32B, that's fine, everyone is happy with that. For games against AFCW and Accrington, where there are only 500 people in the Bench, you can safely turn up at 14:55 on Saturday knowing that, almost certainly, no one will be in your beloved 32B. So, you go to Pete in reception, and with your usual charm and good humour, request one Bench ticket for seat 32B. Money is exchanged, and you totter off to watch the match from your favourite perch.

Now, on busy days, such as Plymouth or Exeter, you, being a normal, well adjusted adult who is familiar with football, realise that there will be a large crowd. So, because the club have kindly provided a number of useful ways for those who do not live locally to purchase tickets remotely, you decide to call Pete in reception using the telephone. You make this call on Wednesday morning, to avoid disappointment. "Hello Pete, my old fruit, it's Terrence here, need my usual seat 32B for Saturday's clash of the titans", you say in your best Terry Wogan voice. "What Ho Tezza, I'll reserve it for you now, old bean. Be sure to collect it from reception prior to the game, ta ta", replies Pete.

There we are sorted. You have, in some fashion, 'arrived' early for the match and got the seat you wanted. Allocated seating at its best.
Without allocated seating, the earliest you can arrive is 1300 (when the open the ground). Without allocated seating, you might well find that some brute of a man has arrived at 1200 and is in front of you in the queue to get in. In this instance, he can march straight to seat 32B and there's bugger all you can do about it because you have no trump card, no ticket with a corresponding seat number printed on it, so you must leave and sit elsewhere.

That is how turning up early works. First come, first served.

Matt.

Admin, can we take all these posts and make them a separate thread? It seems unfair to make Andy wade through pages of this to get where he's going.

[PlainmoorRoar]

Matt is spot on with the above!!

[gullno4]

I agree with Matt!

[brucie]

Since when did gates open two hours before the match?

[ferrarilover]

Which translates as, I'm out of argument, so I'm going to bog down the thread in trivialities in the hope no one notices.

Irrelevant specifics aside, I hope this thread has provided some relevant reading (three pages and not one use of the word 'laughable' nor any personal insults) and an insight into the correct usage of the allocated seating system.

That said, perhaps we've all missed something so far which could be relevant?

Matt.

[royalgull]

Matt is right pointing out the issues of playing Accrington when the stand is half full and then like Saturday when the 'Bench' was pretty full. Simply TUFC have to run an 'Reserved Seating' policy or not at all and not the mix match they currently do. Either everyone sits in the allocated seat on the ticket or not at all, they could even do this on a game by game basis so when we play Accrington you can buy x-amount of tickets for the Bench but not actual seats, and when we play Plymouth then the Reserved Seating policy comes into play. My own opinion is it would make more sense just to make it Reserved seating in that stand all the time. You will still be able to buy 3/4 seats together on the day if we're playing Accrington or Mroecambe etc and then all confusion stops.

The problem is they are doing both, you can pre book your seats but don't enforce it on a Saturday causing confusion and problems such as brucie's. I'm not one for getting into a ground much before 3pm on a Saturday. I find the 'pre match entertainment' horrendous at every football league club and would sooner spend my time at the bar.

[lankyben]

as a steward of the bench, fans need to realise that before I go into a crowd to sort out a seating issue. I firstly have to get cover for my spot I am stewarding and then I need to radio the control box to have the cctv put on me upon entering the crowd for safety issues. so in the time it takes to sort that out surely two mature fans can amicably sort out their own seats....