XI v XI

[ferrarilover]

Encouraged by a discussion on another thread, I wonder if anyone could find the best actual TUFC team in history.

I know we've had 'best XI' threads before, but this one is slightly different. They allow the choosing of players from all eras. What I want to know about is the best XI which actually existed. The only stipulation to this game is that you must choose an XI which did play together, for Torquay United FC in a competitive match. Doesn't have to be a starting XI, it just has to have existed in reality for some period of a qualifying match. To add a little conjecture to proceedings, what do you think would happen if they came up against today's best XI, all things (fitness, technical ability, strength, rule changes etc) considered?

Have fun.

Matt.

[PhilGull]

I don't know the players off the top of my head but I guess this would have to be the team that put in the best performance in the season we finished 2nd in what is now League One.

[Dave]

Many will look towards some our teams of the 1960's during the club most succsessful period, however the face of football hasn't just changed at the top end of the game, it has in the lower leagues aswell, long gone are the days of fish and chips the pub and train when you want to menality.

With in the main all coachs and managers holding either PRO or A coaching badges a greater understanding of the benefits diets and good training Leagues 1 and 2 are by some way more professional now than they were even 25 years ago, and there is heck of lot more at the bottom end of the game than years gone by aswell, even though we would all like more .

One obvious choice would be the promotion team, however if memory serves me right Rosenior, Hazel and Graham moved on, and Van Heusden, Fowler and McGlincey only played a very small part in out League 1 season, so we will never know how that team would have faired in League 1.

For me purely because they did play in the league above, picked up 51 pts which is still one of the biggest pts totals ever relegated from that league and probably would not have gone down if Tranmere hadn't played almost their entire reserve team against Mk Dons I am going for.

Marriot, Hockley, Woods, Taylor, Woodman, Phillips, Garner, Russell, Hill, Constantine, Akinfenwa(Kuffour) Pretty much the team that ended that season.

How do they comapre to todays team, difficult to say different era, however I am sure a fair few these would be in our first 11 if their time was now.

[Banging_Them_In]

Like it. Some say that it is impossible for players of different generations to be compared. I say that post 1960's they can.

For instance, I would say that Bobby Moore (or even Jackie Charlton come to that) of 1966 could easily replace Gary Cahill in the England team of 2013 and would have stopped Kenny Miller turning on the ball and scoring the other night. These are extreme cases I know, but I also think that Bobby Charlton '66 could easily replace any of Gerrard, Wilshire, Cleverly, Lampard 2013 ! ......and Torquay, Loram '88, Alex Russell 2004, both would easily walk into the present midfield......

[tomogull]

(Quote - Ferrarilover) Encouraged by a discussion on another thread, I wonder if anyone could find the best actual TUFC team in history.

I know we've had 'best XI' threads before, but this one is slightly different. They allow the choosing of players from all eras. What I want to know about is the best XI which actually existed. The only stipulation to this game is that you must choose an XI which did play together, for Torquay United FC in a competitive match. Doesn't have to be a starting XI, it just has to have existed in reality for some period of a qualifying match. To add a little conjecture to proceedings, what do you think would happen if they came up against today's best XI, all things (fitness, technical ability, strength, rule changes etc) considered?

Have fun.

Matt.

Bloomin' eck, Matt - we're used to 11+ questions on this forum, not A Level Memory tests !! Off the top of my head, Eric Webber's team that missed out on promotion to the old Division 2 (when the premiership was Division 1) on goal average (not goal difference) on the last day of the season. The halcyon three seasons when Frank O'Farrell took us from Div 4 into Div 3 where we finished in the top eight for two seasons before Frank moved on to Leicester. The G force team - Gibbs and Gurney - was Kevin Hodges in charge then? And then Leroy's passing team, but brittle in defence. I'll dig out my anorak and try to put some names to these teams.

Part 2 of your question - very difficult to answer. As Forever posted, the game has moved on and evolved. The players are probably fitter than players of the sixties and seventies but the game is far less physical. However, I think players who had the skill would have adapted to the modern game. Players such as Don Mills,Tommy Northcott, Tommy Mitchinson, Robin Stubbs and Mark Loram spring readily to mind. I will look for my old Rothman's books and try to put together a few suggested teams.

[ferrarilover]

Haha, sorry Tomo, I don't mean to make it so hard. That said, if my father is anything to go by, remembering stuff from 50 years ago is simple, it's remembering what happened this morning that's the problem.

Good post BTI, I like your justification for including some golden oldies in today's squad.

Matt.

[ggggg]

if you go you will be disappointed as the person who organised our team left it too late to tell our explayers and hardly any of them can make it!

[taxilady]

if you go you will be disappointed as the person who organised our team left it too late to tell our explayers and hardly any of them can make it!

think this should be on the Local Legends thread! But surely they would have checked players' availability before naming them in a squad ?

[stefano]

1967/68

GOAL: John Dunn: Ex-Chelsea where he was understudy to Peter Bonetti and Alex Stepney

BACK FOUR:
Alan Smith: Tough uncompromising defender and a stalwart of the 3-3 FA Cup draw with Spurs in 1965;
John Bond: Former Div 1 (now Premiership) player with West Ham and FA Cup winner with them in 1964;
Ken Brown: England international and over 400 Div 1 games for West Ham. FA Cup winner 1964 & ECWCup winner 1965;
Billy Kitchener: Tall defender could also play up front. On loan from West Ham and went straight into their Div 1 team at end of loan;

MIDFIELD:
Jimmy Dunne: Former Div 2 (now Championship) player with Millwall and Republic of Ireland international. Moved on to play in Div 1;
John Benson: Former Div 1 player from Manchester City;
John Smith: Former Div 1 player with West Ham United and Tottenham Hotspur;
Tony Scott: Former Div 1 player with West Ham United and Aston Villa;

FORWARDS:
Robin Stubbs: Played in Div 1 for Birmingham before becoming a local legend after joining us as a youngster. Scored goals for fun and turned down offers to transfer to Div 1 clubs because he loved Torquay;
Trevor Shepherd: On loan from Div 1 Coventry City.

SUBSTITUTE (ONE FROM):
Doug Clarke: Tricky winger who also tracked back well from Div 2 Hull City;
Alan Welsh: Extremely gifted forward who was often out of favour at Torquay. From Div 2 Millwall;
Jim Fryatt: Powerful forward with the mutton chops and excellent in the air.

I agree with previous posters that the game has changed but I do think that the good players from the past would easily step into present day teams simply because they would of course have been born later and would have been brought up playing under a different regime in respect of fitness, diet, rehabilitation from injury, coaching etc. It is the natural ability that counts and the players that have that could be developed to play the game professionally in whatever era they happened to be born into.

We had such a strong squad at that time that I have had to leave out several excellent players! Frank O'Farrell once remarked that at that time we had a first division team playing in the third division, and it is obvious from the above that we were using West Ham United as a nursery club

[Dave]

I agree with previous posters that the game has changed but I do think that the good players from the past would easily step into present day teams simply because they would of course have been born later and would have been brought up playing under a different regime in respect of fitness, diet, rehabilitation from injury, coaching etc. It is the natural ability that counts and the players that have that could be developed to play the game professionally in whatever era they happened to be born into.

Agree in part, but also diss-agree in part. Not only has the game itself changed as we all agree, but so has the route into professional football, also as you know the requirements that acadmies are looking for in players.

Some of the players that went to the very top of the game through the 1960's-70's and even into the 1980's would not sadly even make it in todays game, no where near enough to today for a player just to very naturaly talented and good technicilly, there is so much competition, clubs will look at every aspect of a player from attitude, parental support, school reports, young players are constanly assessed not only on their personal development but on the likes of fitness and conditioning, but also their growth.

Often read and hear acadmey directors including our own said things like size doesn't matter any more look at Messi, in this country bullcrap, players are being released outfield aswell as keepers trust me on this, because they simply are not big enough.

And their so much pressure placed on young players aswell, know a few who have released themselves because of it. Also if my memory serves me right acdamies have max squad numbers of 12 for mini-soccer and I think 18 for full sided age groups, but even us here at TUFC we don't just have a full acdamey we also have either 4 or 5 development centres, so we are in fact working with 60 + players at the younger age groups and 80+ at full sided age groups, and thats what mean about pressure, those players know that if they fall behind at any aspect of their football development they can and will be replaced quickly and easily .

The bigger clubs are beginning to open regional development centres around the country so therefore are working 100's of kids plus. And once they have made it, it’s staying in the game, with late developer squads, clubs finances, and more completion from so ever growing number of out of work professional players, more and more are being forced into the non-leagues in the hope they get lucky and are spotted and given a route back into pro football.

And that’s why I wonder whether some of the players of the past who never faced this kind competition and development to make in the game, would became professionals today.

[stefano]

I can see the point you are making there forever but am not totally in agreement. The development of young players has certainly changed but back in the 1950's and 1960's EVERY boy played football as playing in the park or street with jumpers as goal posts was what kids did. No distractions like television (regarded as a luxury at a time when many houses did not have an inside toilet and most houses were without a telephone). It is a minority of children playing football now with all the other distractions of 21st Century life so it could be argued that in the past there was a lot more competition to become a professional than there is today. The naturally gifted players stood out and I can not see any reason to think that if those same people had been born in 1995 rather than the 1930's / 1940's with the same natural ability they would not be able to stand out as young footballers in the present day. It would be rather amusing to imagine it the other way round. Some of the present day stars playing in boots above the ankle and with a leather football with laces holding in the pigs bladder.

[hector]

Great idea for a thread. Mine would be between 2004 and 1988. Probably for me the 1988. That team competed in a tough Division Four and lost out on promotion to Wolves, Cardiff, Bolton and Swansea - clubs who all have played in the Premiership recently. They beat Spurs in the League Cup, reached the semis of the Sherpa Van or whatever it was then (may have been Freight Rover), played cup holders Coventry off the park. They should have gone up automatically but blew it but I think that side would have beaten any we have seen since.

Allen

McNichol
Cole
Impey
Lloyd
Kelly

Sharpe
Haslegrave
Loram

Caldwell
Dobson

[ferrarilover]

I feel a bit mean about being a bit mean about your post in the Oxford matchday thread now, Hector... I was only a bit mean though.

Good effort Stef, I thought this might be your sort of thing.

Matt.

[stefano]

I feel a bit mean about being a bit mean about your post in the Oxford matchday thread now, Hector... I was only a bit mean though.

Good effort Stef, I thought this might be your sort of thing.

Matt.

Thanks Matt and as Hector said it is a good idea for a thread.

It is extremely difficult to try to compare teams across the decades but I went for a time when virtually everyone in the team either had or would play in the top division and with a couple of full internationals as well as two FA Cup winners and one European Cup Winners Cup winner.

[hector]

I feel a bit mean about being a bit mean about your post in the Oxford matchday thread now, Hector... I was only a bit mean though.

Good effort Stef, I thought this might be your sort of thing.

Matt.

Well, I've told my mum of you and she will speaking to your mum very soon!

No worries - I never take it personally.