Fleetwood Town v Torquay United - 7/9/13

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Post by jonnyfive »

ferrarilover wrote: Nope, not having that. They tore Nico to shreds, all across the rest of the park, the game was much more even in the first half. They were the better side, no doubt, but had Cruise been on, they wouldn't have had the vast majority of their chances. Second half, we were so much better than them it was unreal. Each side dominated a half, just that we dominated much more in our half than they did in theirs.

Matt.
In my view, they used the wind better than us and should have had an unassailable lead by HT. They missed chances that were on a plate, including one which was easier to score. Made Milner's one last night look difficult!

Did we generate chance after chance in 'our' 45 mins? Or did it never quite come to that?

Don't get me wrong, it was a good comeback, but with a strong following wind, against a strangely dispirited side.
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Post by TeenageGull »

This is my first ever post after reading this forum for nearly a whole year now and I think it is disgraceful that some people call themselves fans. All I read is negativity, "Alan Knill this, Alan Knill that, it was all luck! "(I agree about Ben Useless). I find myself agreeing with Matt because he is the only person given the team a chance after 6 games! Only 6. Share the negativity with your self not depressing people with how we are already going to be relegated on a forum where we are suppose to love TUFC . I come on here to make my self feel good about Torquay United and there is a lot of people who need to keep there views to them self and carry on. 20 games in moan, not 6 we still easily are playing much better football under knill which we can enjoy all be it that we aren't playing the best atm. If the mozika rumors are true, then out season is going to be fine. BELIEVE :scarf: :scarf: :scarf:
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Post by madgull »

People suddenly all cropping up saying they preferred Ling all along after a heavy defeat, football fans in stereotype-affirming shocker. Let's look at Knill's record more in depth, shall we?

Rotherham

Alan Knill's first job in management. He took over as caretaker manager, and managed to keep Rotherham up after they had struggled all season. In his first season proper, Rotherham started in League One with a 10 point deficit as a result of a CVA, and although they pulled the deficit back, however in January they were forced to sell Lee Williams and Will Hoskins, and slipped to 13 points from safety. Considering that they were financially ruined at this point, and that their new manager could not save them from relegation either, to save them in his first year and to have them effectively 3 points from safety in his second were it not for the deduction is hardly a failure for a manager's first job.

Bury

Missed out on automatic promotion on goal difference, lost in the play-off semi-final on penalties to Shrewsbury, who you'll notice, incidentally, are now a comfortable League One club while Bury are still rooted in League Two. Was headhunted to join Scunthorpe with Bury 1 point off of the playoffs and eight games remaining.

Scunthorpe

Couldn't save them from relegation in the eight games he had left of the Championship season. Only once since 1963 had Scunthorpe ever survived more than one season in England's second tier, and this was the season previously under Nigel Adkins, who went on to manage Southampton, so it took a manager of Premiership quality to make this happen. Yes, had a poor season in League One, but as you'll notice, Scunthorpe fared no better under the iconic Brian Laws, and they are now...in League Two.

So....

If you discount his first job, a cash-strapped Rotherham, then all the clubs he's been at have done no better or actually worse than when he was in charge of them. Also, Scott, please be less disingenuous with the 'every club he's managed apart from one'. Given that you can't really count his short time at us, that makes it a whopping TWO clubs to one. His overall record only has a difference of 14 games between win and loss.

I'll spin it this way. His League Two record before us stands at Played:165 Won:71 Drawn:44 Lost:50, a win percentage of 43%.
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Post by AustrianAndyGull »

Not long back in after a mammoth day and I would like to share my thoughts with you about what I've seen this afternoon. I'm at all times trying to be as positive as possible and i'm not going to attempt to offer solutions but the very fact I have mentioned the word 'solutions' would indicate that we have problems. Oh yes indeedeedo. We do.

First of all Fleetwood are a good, strong , physical side with some quality players - some of which cost more than my gambling habit. That is a lot of cash! They are expected to do well this season and therefore taking this into account I was hopeful that we could perhaps nick a draw here today but my heart expected defeat. Not only did we lose today but we were made to look like a gaggle of clowns in a circus big top juggling things and riding unicycles badly - we were utterly demolished by a good solid side, not exceptional but a side who were confident in what they were doing and aided by total ineptness by most of our calamitous outfield. I say outfield as Ricey is exempt, ok so he made a rick which led to their 3rd goal but it should really have been 9 or 10 really and if it weren't for the lad again with a MOM performance it would have been.

Their first goal came after they had whipped in about 20 crosses prior to this cross that led to the free header and we had failed spectacularly to get rid of the danger effectively. It had been coming, second goal was an excellent strike from Sarcevic but he had about 5 years to take it, he could have got the deckchair out and read the paper before rattling it off. The third was a Ricey cock up for which there is no way i'm going to give him stick for, the 4th was just f*cking annoying like the silent Fleetwood fans. I thought there were 3000 and odd Laurel and Hardies in the stands it was that quiet. :lol:

There is an old saying, BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR and I have seen large signs in the last 3 away games that perhaps this old adage is going to come and bite me on the arse. I got my wish and wanted Ling out thinking a new man would at least attack and make us more competitive and easy on the eye. The last 30 minutes aside at Northampton and a few minutes second half at Morecambe and we have looked WORSE than a Martin Ling side. Totally lacking any creativity, players getting bypassed so easily, players all over the shop and creating nothing. For all the stick Ling got we rarely got tonked under him and he kept us in games generally despite our lack of scoring prowess at the other end. This was pointed out to me by Bengull today and I totally agree 100%. I have asked for Knill and I've got Knill and i'm going to give him the time to see if he can get things right.

We are conceding goals and we look desperate at times both in midfield and at the back, we also struggle to get forward. Today was a Ling esque performance but Fleetwood would only have won 1-0. I'm happy that Ling is gone, I stick by that and i'm still happy that Knill is at the helm but I am completely shocked by what I have seen today. Knill hasn't produced the attacking football I had hoped for thus far in general. The second half against Northampton is the sort of performance level I anticipate for most games and even if the goals don't come at least we're giving it a go. Now it's like we're back to the Ling days but will ship 2, 3 , 4 goals instead of 1.

I'm not a finicky fan, I fully support Knill and Brass and know we're only a handful of games in and they must be given time to try and get some sort of consistency in performance levels. I don't mind spending £100 on a day at Fleetwood, being out of the house for 12 hours and losing 4-1 but if the players have not even turned up then it is unforgivable. I am trusting Knill and I will forget about today, it must be a blip and we are ready for Rochdale.

RICE 9 MAN OF THE MATCH - Despite being at fault for the 3rd he made some superb saves and was involved all game.

TONGE 6 Tried to carry the ball forward at times and wasn't that bad.

NICHOLSON 5 Below average

DOWNES 8 This bloke is a legend and if he gets injured we're f*cked.

PEARCE 5 Solid at times, slow to react at other times. A bit like Saah when he first arrived. Should improve.

MANSELL 5 Tried to keep the team ticking over as always, grafted but little else.

HARDING 1 Abysmal, corners and free kicks in promising positions wasted because he consistently failed to execute a dead ball properly and put it in a dangerous area. Constantly brushed aside, bypassed and left for dead which led him to make a few late challenges trying to retrieve the ball, one for which he was booked for. He had some nice slick gel on his hair but there was nothing slick about his play. Did f*ck all. I still maintain he gets given more time as I feel its only fair but there is no way on this earth I can see any way in which he will suddenly get better. I've seen some chinks of promise in Pearce and Bodin even already this season but I've seen this guy 3 times now and it's like having 10 men. I don't wish to be harsh on the lad and he should get some more time but by the same token, he needs to dramatically improve otherwise we have a problem if Knill won't drop him.

CAMERON 2 Almost as bad as Harding. Didn't even know he was on the pitch. My Grandma would have given us a better attacking outlet and she passed away 5 years ago. Shocking.

CHAPPELL 7 Our best attacking player by a mile, busy, industrious but just couldn't get any joy or help from team mates.

HAWLEY 3 Really bad today, usual hold up play but had nothing to work from to be fair to him. Still poor though.

BALL 4 Lots of endeavour but to no avail.

SUBS: SULLIVAN 5 Ok

BENNERS 7 Did really well when coming on, battling for headers , coming back to help and a superb finish from the edge of the box for our goal. A rare bright spot.

KNILL 3 Failed to motivate, failed to select the right 11 and failed to bring on subs when the time was right. At 2-0 down and labouring we needed change. 3-0 came and it's game over then changes made. Not his finest hour.

If Fleetwood have pretensions of rapidly climbing the footballing pyramid then maybe they could get the local council to put some f*cking road signs up indicating that there IS actually a football ground here. One road in, one season in and still no road signs. How f*cking hard can it be?! I found my way this year, got lost last. They also need to stop going to sleep in games and make some noise.

I saw something that filled me with hope upon leaving Fleetwood (and it wasn't just that I WAS leaving Fleetwood :lol: ) but it was something I've never seen before. I saw a rainbow but with another rainbow above it. Two rainbows! I half expected Bungle, George and Zippy to magically appear in the vivid bands of this meteorological wonder. I didn't though and nearly started to cry, I loved them but not as much as Mooncat. Mooncat was sh*t hot AND green! I saw hope that next week at Rochdale we will play like we did at Northampton. Will the real Torquay United please stand up.

Great to stand on the back step with Bengull again and also to see a TUFC fan dressed as Kermit the Frog! :lol:

F*cking roll on next Saturday! :scarf: :scarf:
Strangely enough it was Pope Gregory the 9th inviting me for drinks aboard his steam yacht, the saucy sue currently wintering in montego bay with the England cricket team and the Balanese Goddess of plenty.
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Post by AustrianAndyGull »

Oh and just for the record, the benners goal was pretty much our only real attempt at goal in the 90.
Strangely enough it was Pope Gregory the 9th inviting me for drinks aboard his steam yacht, the saucy sue currently wintering in montego bay with the England cricket team and the Balanese Goddess of plenty.
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Post by Scott Brehaut »

madgull wrote:People suddenly all cropping up saying they preferred Ling all along after a heavy defeat, football fans in stereotype-affirming shocker. Let's look at Knill's record more in depth, shall we?

Rotherham

Alan Knill's first job in management. He took over as caretaker manager, and managed to keep Rotherham up after they had struggled all season. In his first season proper, Rotherham started in League One with a 10 point deficit as a result of a CVA, and although they pulled the deficit back, however in January they were forced to sell Lee Williams and Will Hoskins, and slipped to 13 points from safety. Considering that they were financially ruined at this point, and that their new manager could not save them from relegation either, to save them in his first year and to have them effectively 3 points from safety in his second were it not for the deduction is hardly a failure for a manager's first job.

Bury

Missed out on automatic promotion on goal difference, lost in the play-off semi-final on penalties to Shrewsbury, who you'll notice, incidentally, are now a comfortable League One club while Bury are still rooted in League Two. Was headhunted to join scunthorpe with Bury 1 point off of the playoffs and eight games remaining.

scunthorpe

Couldn't save them from relegation in the eight games he had left of the Championship season. Only once since 1963 had scunthorpe ever survived more than one season in England's second tier, and this was the season previously under Nigel Adkins, who went on to manage Southampton, so it took a manager of Premiership quality to make this happen. Yes, had a poor season in League One, but as you'll notice, scunthorpe fared no better under the iconic Brian Laws, and they are now...in League Two.

So....

If you discount his first job, a cash-strapped Rotherham, then all the clubs he's been at have done no better or actually worse than when he was in charge of them. Also, Scott, please be less disingenuous with the 'every club he's managed apart from one'. Given that you can't really count his short time at us, that makes it a whopping TWO clubs to one. His overall record only has a difference of 14 games between win and loss.

I'll spin it this way. His League Two record before us stands at Played:165 Won:71 Drawn:44 Lost:50, a win percentage of 43%.
You say potato, I say patato....I maintain he isn't a good manager.

Anyway, the Board, rightly, won't sack him yet, so lets see if he can turn this around and convince me. I don't think he will but hey, stranger things have happened.

Interesting that, Nico and Manse aside, the players that are having shockers are all Knill signings - given his alleged links with clubs higher up the food chain than us, that's a disappointment.

I'm normally as positive as they come, but this time I just think the club have made a big mistake. I can't wait to be proved wrong......
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Post by Robiberto22 »

just got back and ... wow - not going to get too negative tho, we were up against the best team in this league blah blah ... oh f*** it we were shite today at least we have a keeper who cares, and well done knill for waiting till we were 3 down to make a sub

we will have better days - i hope

rice- 8 - MOTM no question despite the cock up for the 3rd
tonge -6
nico -6
downes -6
pearce -6
harding -3 - christ he's bad i dont know if its just not coming off for him or if hes just awful ...
manse -6
chapps- 8
cameron - 6
hawley 5
ball 5

well done on benners goals well struck and at least something to remember from the game other than kermit! and sully looked ok had a long range effort - fair play to fleetwood very good side and very physical and well set up!

oh yeah - knill out!!!
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Post by tomogull »

TeenageGull wrote:This is my first ever post after reading this forum for nearly a whole year now and I think it is disgraceful that some people call themselves fans. All I read is negativity, "Alan Knill this, Alan Knill that, it was all luck! "(I agree about Ben Useless). I find myself agreeing with Matt because he is the only person given the team a chance after 6 games! Only 6. Share the negativity with your self not depressing people with how we are already going to be relegated on a forum where we are suppose to love TUFC . I come on here to make my self feel good about Torquay United and there is a lot of people who need to keep there views to them self and carry on. 20 games in moan, not 6 we still easily are playing much better football under knill which we can enjoy all be it that we aren't playing the best atm. If the mozika rumors are true, then out season is going to be fine. BELIEVE :scarf: :scarf: :scarf:
Welcome to the Bear Pit you young whippersnapper, you!! Yep - good post and a salutory lesson to those on here who were maybe expecting instant success, or at least have a few more points on the board after 6 games. Whilst I agree with you that we have to be patient, I think 20 games is stretching patience too far. If we are not well away from the lower reaches of the table after, say, 12 games, then it will be time to ask questions. But what has been glaringly obvious to all of us is that we are badly lacking a creative player in midfield. As you say, if the Mozika story is true, things could change .... Knill said in the Herald that players would have to leave before players come in. I just hope that he isn't referring to young players with potential who were at the club before his arrival - e.g. Ashley Yeoman, Nathan Craig and Kirtys McKenzie. Unless it is short-term loan spells that could help their development.
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Post by brucie »

It is ridiculous to suggest that Knill should/will be sacked - it just isn't going to happen. However I was somewhat worried by his after match interview. Fleetwood may be the Brazil of League according to some people but we just are not going to be able to compete with the better sides in League 2 for the simple reason that we are nowhere near good enough. We have got hammered by Oxford and Fleetwood who are probably the best two sides we have played. We have failed to beat the likes of Wimbledon,Morecambe and Hartlepool who are three of the poorer sides in the league.
Lets start with the first problem - Ball and Hawley are not any good. There is no point in having two strikers who cannot score goals.
I have only seen the Wimbledon and Hartlepool games but we looked disjointed in both. There is no cohesion whatsoever to our play
Not necessarily because he scored today but a fit Benyon will score more goals than the other two put together. He should be the first choice striker. Knill is making a huge error by not starting him every week - in fact I would pair him alongside Yeoman - he is more likely to score goals than the current first choice strikers.
Thompson should be given a chance instead of Cameron who looks limited.
The forwards can't score, there is no creativity in central midfield.
The football is bloody awful as well.
Its going to be a long hard season at this rate.
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Post by ferrarilover »

I'm afraid Tomo, you're going to be disappointed, in all likelihood, early next week.

Teen, Welcome aboard. The Mozika link is no longer rumour, have a butchers at the 'who did I meet today' thread for confirmation.

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Post by TeenageGull »

brucie wrote:It is ridiculous to suggest that Knill should/will be sacked - it just isn't going to happen. However I was somewhat worried by his after match interview. Fleetwood may be the Brazil of League according to some people but we just are not going to be able to compete with the better sides in League 2 for the simple reason that we are nowhere near good enough. We have got hammered by Oxford and Fleetwood who are probably the best two sides we have played. We have failed to beat the likes of Wimbledon,Morecambe and Hartlepool who are three of the poorer sides in the league.
Lets start with the first problem - Ball and Hawley are not any good. There is no point in having two strikers who cannot score goals.
I have only seen the Wimbledon and Hartlepool games but we looked disjointed in both. There is no cohesion whatsoever to our play
Not necessarily because he scored today but a fit Benyon will score more goals than the other two put together. He should be the first choice striker. Knill is making a huge error by not starting him every week - in fact I would pair him alongside Yeoman - he is more likely to score goals than the current first choice strikers.
Thompson should be given a chance instead of Cameron who looks limited.
They aren't getting any service could be a good reason why maybe every goal are strikers have scored is long ranged?!? They huff and puff, they are unlucky eg disallowed offsides and hey both have quality to much footballing quality to being playing for little old Torquay. No service from midfield =no goals
The forwards can't score, there is no creativity in central midfield.
The football is bloody awful as well.
Its going to be a long hard season at this rate.

They aren't getting any service could be a good reason why maybe every goal are strikers have scored is long ranged?!? They huff and puff, they are unlucky eg disallowed offsides and hey both have quality to much footballing quality to being playing for little old Torquay. No service from midfield =no goals
Ball and Hawley need to carry on playing together with Mozika (if true) because that will scare teams. And face it yeoman is gone so we can wish that away
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Post by ferrarilover »

Arwick (and others), can you really not see that our only problem is the central pairing? Our back five (with Cruise in place of Nico) is as good as anything in the division. Hawley will score goals if he's not hamstrung by a lack of service. The wingers aren't entirely without merit, particularly Chappell. The problems begin and end every time the ball goes to either of the no-hopers in the middle who, infinitely more often than not, give the ball away cheaply. We don't win goal kicks, we don't play through the middle, we don't split defences, all because neither Harding nor Manse could play a reliable, accurate pass if their gentleman sausages relied upon it.
Mozika will, in all likelihood, change this and give us the ability to play the football Knilly wants.
The reason we need 10 games is twofold. Firstly, saying we are crap in central midfield after 2 games is all well and good (and not inaccurate), but we simply don't have the money to remedy it. We can't go signing blokes and paying up others after a fortnight of failure (no matter how abject). Nor can we carry a squad of 30, we aren't Swindon, we actually pay for the stuff we have. The manager at TUFC knows that he will have to pick up a bargain or two and hope that those he trusts enough to sign are not lemons. As it turns out, he's signed a couple of crackers (Chapperz, Ladderz last year, Mozika, Pearce) but he's been let down in an area where we are already weak.
There will be a couple out this week (probably) to show them just what life is like where they could be heading if they don't buck up. That will, hopefully, give us some scope to bring in just one more. One last roll of the dice to see if we can unlock the potential which is bubbling so frustratingly close to the surface in the present setup.

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Post by Scott Brehaut »

Just read this from an Irons fan about Mozika:

"“Mozika has been a waste of space for months,he has let our club and himself down big time. when we need battlers we are lumbered with a team full of bottlers.The fans are giving thier hard earned wages to support the club and recieving next to nothing back in the way of performances on the pitch."UP THE IRON"!!!”

Taken from here: http://www.thisisscunthorpe.co.uk/brain ... z2eFNtEYHm

I'm hopeful that he has put his injuries behind him and shows a bit of bottle....this will probably be Knills last throw of the dice (loan signings aside of course)
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Post by tomogull »

brucie wrote:It is ridiculous to suggest that Knill should/will be sacked - it just isn't going to happen. However I was somewhat worried by his after match interview. Fleetwood may be the Brazil of League according to some people but we just are not going to be able to compete with the better sides in League 2 for the simple reason that we are nowhere near good enough. We have got hammered by Oxford and Fleetwood who are probably the best two sides we have played. We have failed to beat the likes of Wimbledon,Morecambe and Hartlepool who are three of the poorer sides in the league.
Lets start with the first problem - Ball and Hawley are not any good. There is no point in having two strikers who cannot score goals.
I have only seen the Wimbledon and Hartlepool games but we looked disjointed in both. There is no cohesion whatsoever to our play
Not necessarily because he scored today but a fit Benyon will score more goals than the other two put together. He should be the first choice striker. Knill is making a huge error by not starting him every week - in fact I would pair him alongside Yeoman - he is more likely to score goals than the current first choice strikers.
Thompson should be given a chance instead of Cameron who looks limited.
The forwards can't score, there is no creativity in central midfield.
The football is bloody awful as well.
Its going to be a long hard season at this rate.
Ah, good evening, Brucie ! Your usual scattergun brutal approach! Let's unpick some of your rantings. I reckon Ball and Hawley would be scoring if they were getting decent service from midfield or the wings. My view after the first game against Wimbledon was that we were watching two teams that would not be at the wrong end of the table this season. Wimbledon are doing ok. The Hartlepool game was damned awful. Hartlepool were unbelievably poor and we were little better. I agree with you that Thompson should be given more opportunities. It was his pin-point cross to Downes that got us the point against Wimbledon. And I agree that Yeoman should also be given games. He was looking a decent player at the end of last season but now he doesn't even make the bench - I don't understand it. But fair play to Sullivan for grabbing his chance. Yep, Brucie, you're right - at this rate it could be a long hard season. But if the Mozika story is right, it might be just about to change .......
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Post by AustrianAndyGull »

Maybe we will score first at Rochdale - I hope so just to see what the lads do. It's unknown territory. :lol:
Strangely enough it was Pope Gregory the 9th inviting me for drinks aboard his steam yacht, the saucy sue currently wintering in montego bay with the England cricket team and the Balanese Goddess of plenty.
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