Fleetwood Town v Torquay United - 7/9/13

[Scott Brehaut]

Re Mozika - this thread reads better: http://boards.footymad.net/forum.php?tn ... 2113011248

In essence, if we can keep him fit we should have a good player on our hands - lets just pray that DD works his magic

[AustrianAndyGull]

I think we shouldn't get too carried away with the negativity despite what was an unacceptable performance today. Maybe there are reasons to be positive.

Fleetwood away this season is one of the toughest games we'll have to play so we expected nothing.

If what Matt is saying about Mozika is true (not doubting Matt at all) then it's another addition to the squad which can only help.

Look at the table, York are 3rd bottom and I thought they'd do really well and we have the same number of points as Pompey. Morecambe sit in the play off zone and they have a desperately poor team IMO. It just goes to show that things aren't always what they seem and come December we may be sitting in the play off zone ourselves, unlikely but it is possible. We just don't know.

I'm sure the lads would have been destroyed by today and will be desperate to get out there on the pitch v Rochdale to make amends. It has just been an horrendous day at the office so let's move forward and see if there are any chinks of light to come in these next few games.

[AustrianAndyGull]

Just realised that the ref today was one of the dreaded trio DEADMAN / DRYSDALE / McDERMID. It was Drysdale and although Fleetwood didn't need his help he was pretty sh*t in all honesty. He's got a deserthead and looks like Howard Webb from a distance, he must model himself on him. Either him or the bloke off Right Said Fred. I wouldn't go as far as to say that Drysdale was bent but his lino bloody well was! As camp as a field full of teepees!!

[AustrianAndyGull]

Please, please don't write in saying that's homophobic..........................it's not. =D

[AustrianAndyGull]

Just to add that I usually by a local newspaper in the town / city I am visiting, it's a perverse obsession of mine I admit but I bought the FLEETWOOD WEEKLY NEWS today and on the front page they had a picture of a disabled schoolgirl on her first day at school and a story of how she can now walk unaided due to people in Fleetwood raising 60k to send her to the USA to have the operation to enable her to do this. I couldn't help but look at the picture and feel immense happiness for the little lass. We lost 4-1 and were sh*t. So f*cking what? The front page pic of her smiling at her mum seemingly without a care in the world nearly brought a tear I a have to admit. Maybe Fleetwood isn't so bad if there are folk willing to chip in to help like this.

[AustrianAndyGull]

They still need some bloody road signs though to tell people where the ground is!!!

[bengull]

Anyone who reads my posts will know that I am rarely negative, and that I try and glean a positive out of some of the most disastrous of performances, I think today was just about one of the worst I have ever seen. Yes, we know Fleetwood are good, Yes, we know Fleetwood will be at the top of the league most of the season, Yes, I know they supposedly have money to burn, all of those things can become irrelevant if you compete and play to your potential. We did neither.

In truth we never really got going. Our performance was error strewn from the start, it was only down to heroics from Martin Rice that the scoreline maintained a notion of respectability. He made at least 3 excellent saves, and countless other good ones. No doubt the hopelessly myopic will get their knickers in a substantial twist over the hash he made (by his own admission too) of the third goal by virtue of what the highlights show us, what the highlights won't show is the magnitude at which he kept us in the game. He can certainly hold his head up high, few others can come out of the game likewise.

I have no desire to get into a Knill/Ling debate, its irrelevant now, we have to get behind our manager but crucially he has to get behind us too. Call me self absorbed/ self important if you will, but if you make a 562 mile round journey to support your team I think you deserve to be acknowledged in some small part. Alan Knill shot off down the tunnel as quick as he could at the final whistle, not even a solitary clap to the away fans (who by and large had not turned on the team) Ricey got a deserved round of applause, Manse, Nicho, and Downes (as you would expect) came over, didn't see a lot of everyone else. Its disappointing, we're all in this together.

More than happy to take the plaudits and punch the air passionately when we won at Sixfields, it would have been nice for Mr Knill to raise his hand today. Left a sour taste in my mouth.

There is a lot of work to be done with this team, there is so much time for it to come together, so it is fruitless writing them off. We showed at Northampton what we are capable of if we apply ourselves properly. It won't happen over night and there will be defeats along the way. Defeats are ok, I can take them, but not if we just surrender like we did today. You would have thought we might be a little bit heartened to register a consolation goal which our meagre attacking play did not warrant, but instead we simply allowed Fleetwood to negate any positive feeling it may have created by scoring a very simple and avoidable fourth. These lapses of concentration are symptomatic of our disjointed performances so far and they must be cut out.

Some people also accused Ling (with good merit too) of acting too slowly to make decisions, of a 'suck it and see' approach. The same needs to be apportioned to Knill; if there are players in his squad that he is unwilling to give match time too then they need to be discarded with and replaced with those he does rate. It is so frustrating watching and thinking that Nathan, Niall and Ashley could make a difference, if Knill disagrees then he has to replace those players with ones who will give us the 'wow factor'

It was plainly obvious that once Harding and Manse had both received a caution before half an hour had elapsed that neither could put their foot in for fear of dismissal. There was no change in order to solve this problem, but with 25 minutes to go our best hope at holding the ball up was replaced.

It was just a bad day, made worse by the travelling involved, which I know is irrelevant because that performance would have been no less acceptable at Plainmoor but still disappointing nonetheless. If that performance is a pre-cursor for what is about to happen then big chances need to happen sooner or later.

I am not giving up, not throwing a strop, not going to start naming names and demand they are dropped. I am going to keep faith in the manager to change things as he deems fit and I will be at Rochdale to see how we respond. I was equally disheartened after the Oxford match and the boys turned it round with our first win of the season, lets see if we get a similar response at Spotland (home of the greatest chippie in the land) next week.

A good laugh was had with AAGull as per usual, even though our mind wandered from matters on the pitch too many times. I am thankful that I made it out of Highbury alive after the allegations levelled at our literary genius on the Fleetwood forum. There were no mobs with pitchforks waiting at the exit gates for him so may be they all gained senses of humour over night.

Lets write this match off, move onto the next one.

[Neal]

I didn't go to the match and thought I would wait to read some posts from those who did before commenting.

I was thinking what to write and then read Brucies post, you took the words out of my mouth.

I have posted on these sites since the early days of Mervo and I'm no doom and gloom merchant by the way.

I'm afraid my statement from after the Hartlepool game stands, this team is a relegation candidate. What's the evidence.

1) Well to start with our league position.

2) Nearly every TUFC team I've watched over the last 35+ years had at least 1 or even 2 player's that had some creativity about them who you might expect to create an opening. I'm afraid this team doesn't.

3) This team isn't as good as last years. The defence is on a par I guess. The midfield is poor, no creativity at all, and the current 2 first choice forwards are very poor, and conference standard in my opinion. Jarvis & Howe twice as good as this pair.

On a positive note. Benyon should definitely start. He's a goal poacher, not the best forward we have ever had but can nick the odd goal and is industrious. Craig should also start, cannot see why Harding is preferred, ridiculous.

I also think Nico is getting unfair criticism. Agree he is not the player of a few years ago but defence starts from the attack and our attack is so poor and the opposition know this. That gives them confidence to push forward knowing that Ball and Hawley are not that dangerous and offer little threat.

I haven't formed an opinion on Chapel yet. He can beat a few but what I've seen he's distribution is poor. But due to the Northampton game I will give him more time. Cameron, sorry, poor no better than what we let go.

[supergulls]

It is ridiculous to suggest that Knill should/will be sacked - it just isn't going to happen. However I was somewhat worried by his after match interview. Fleetwood may be the Brazil of League according to some people but we just are not going to be able to compete with the better sides in League 2 for the simple reason that we are nowhere near good enough. We have got hammered by Oxford and Fleetwood who are probably the best two sides we have played. We have failed to beat the likes of Wimbledon,Morecambe and Hartlepool who are three of the poorer sides in the league.
Lets start with the first problem - Ball and Hawley are not any good. There is no point in having two strikers who cannot score goals.
I have only seen the Wimbledon and Hartlepool games but we looked disjointed in both. There is no cohesion whatsoever to our play
Not necessarily because he scored today but a fit Benyon will score more goals than the other two put together. He should be the first choice striker. Knill is making a huge error by not starting him every week - in fact I would pair him alongside Yeoman - he is more likely to score goals than the current first choice strikers.
Thompson should be given a chance instead of Cameron who looks limited.
The forwards can't score, there is no creativity in central midfield.
The football is bloody awful as well.
Its going to be a long hard season at this rate.

The bit about Wimbledon is a bit wide of the mark, the manager brought in 10 new players in the close season and to be fair they look like they are going to be a decent side. They are currently sitting third having won 4 drawn 1 and lost 1. I think they will suprise a few people they are definetly not the same as last year. But I totally agree with the rest of your post. Benyon needs to start, Sullivan could do a better job than Cameron.

[brucie]

I have not seen the goals but by all accounts Rice made a hash of the third. How ever well everyone says he played he does seem to be making more errors every week.
Plain fact is that had he not let in that one and however badly we played score would have been 2-1 and the game wouldn't have been over. You just cannot give gift goals away.
There isn't alot of creativity in the team but thats not an excuse for our two strikers not to score goals. Hawley seems to have been about Knills ninth choice and its showing. Ball just doesn't look a decent target man at all - its not helped by his inability to head the ball.
Goodness knows what to make of Mozika - he has been injured for yonks and thats a worry in itself. Its going to take time for him to get up to speed.
We are playing a wide open 4-4-2 with two slowish full backs in Tonge and Nico. Our wingers look about the only part of the team that is an improvement from last season. We are always going to concede goals playing this way so you are going to need good strikers to give yourself a chance.
Far fromn the midfield being the problem thats the issue.

[TeenageGull]

I have not seen the goals but by all accounts Rice made a hash of the third. How ever well everyone says he played he does seem to be making more errors every week.
Plain fact is that had he not let in that one and however badly we played score would have been 2-1 and the game wouldn't have been over. You just cannot give gift goals away.

How can you criticise the keeper that kept us losing so many games, kept this one being like 10-1 and the only player is playing well consistently. Martin Rice should be praised the way he played not his game dissected what he did wrong. Disgraceful

[brucie]

Errrr quite easily - read the above post. Flapper Rice let the third one in. If he saved it from being 10-1 then god help us, we are relegated already. Rice was also at fault for the goal at Northampton (and indeed almost cost us at home last week due to his hesitation)
I fully accept that he has been playing better this season but I am a realist and unfortunately he is always going to be prone to errors and letting cheap goals in.
Unfortunately as another poster said we are probably a worse side than last season really. Its a harsh reality but its true.
Rice is worse than Poke. Full backs Nico is no better than last season. Tonge is maybe about the same as Oastler slightly better maybe but not too much difference. Centrebacks about the same Pearce is maybe slightly worse than Saah.
Central midfield is about the same. WIngers - Bodin was here last year Chapple is obviously better.
Its up front where the biggest difference is though.
As neal said Ball and Hawley are conference standard and thats where we are suffering.

[Southampton Gull]

It's no surprise to see mouthpiece revelling in a heavy defeat and taking the opportunity to slate one of the few players deserving of any credit so far this season.

So brucie, you say "by all accounts Rice made a hash of the third". What accounts are those because from what I can see you're talking a load of tosh. Prove me wrong for once and provide proof of all these accounts before waffling on like a demented old woman. You weren't at the game so precisely what are you basing your "opinions" on?

You've seen two league games so far and a team radically overhauled in the summer is now deemed relegation material? Biggest load of crap I've ever read on here, and you've seriously posted plenty of crap in your time

[yellowforever]

Arwick (and others), can you really not see that our only problem is the central pairing? Our back five (with Cruise in place of Nico) is as good as anything in the division. Hawley will score goals if he's not hamstrung by a lack of service. The wingers aren't entirely without merit, particularly Chappell. The problems begin and end every time the ball goes to either of the no-hopers in the middle who, infinitely more often than not, give the ball away cheaply. We don't win goal kicks, we don't play through the middle, we don't split defences, all because neither Harding nor Manse could play a reliable, accurate pass if their gentleman sausages relied upon it.
Mozika will, in all likelihood, change this and give us the ability to play the football Knilly wants.
The reason we need 10 games is twofold. Firstly, saying we are crap in central midfield after 2 games is all well and good (and not inaccurate), but we simply don't have the money to remedy it. We can't go signing blokes and paying up others after a fortnight of failure (no matter how abject). Nor can we carry a squad of 30, we aren't Swindon, we actually pay for the stuff we have. The manager at TUFC knows that he will have to pick up a bargain or two and hope that those he trusts enough to sign are not lemons. As it turns out, he's signed a couple of crackers (Chapperz, Ladderz last year, Mozika, Pearce) but he's been let down in an area where we are already weak.

There will be a couple out this week (probably) to show them just what life is like where they could be heading if they don't buck up. That will, hopefully, give us some scope to bring in just one more. One last roll of the dice to see if we can unlock the potential which is bubbling so frustratingly close to the surface in the present setup.

Matt.

Here here.

[brucie]

Did you listen to the radio commentary of the game? Julian Gaunt alluded to Rice flapping at the ball and laboured the point in his after match report that "Rice was at fault for the third goal".
If Scott is able to deduce that Harding had another bad game yesterday indeed arguing the point with someone who actually the was at the game then I am entitled to glean that Rice cocked up for the third cause the radio commentator said so.
As Rice cannot deal with high balls (and indeed is also slow at coming off his line) then its hardly suprising.
As for "slating" him as you put it - I have actually said that he has done well this season. However it doesn't alter the fact that if he makes five good saves and then throws one in his own net, then that isn't good enough.
I also commented that errors have been creeping into his game in recent weeks and I stand by that. He failed to come off his line for a ball last week in the Hartlepool game that almost resulted in a goal. I also think he was responsible for the goal at Northampton and come to that should have stopped the third one against Oxford.
Yes the team has been radically overhauled but in the two games I have seen the football has been bloody awful. Yesterday won't be the last hiding we get thats a certainty the way we are playing.