Torquay United V Cheltenham

[coley in stripes]

Andy, agree with your frustration and explanation but bear with the man, you know what lower league football is like, it can all change overnight.
Knill will respond. I honestly believe that he is doing his best with what he has got and knows that it will all come good soon....Remember how Gillingham bought promotion last season with Allen largeing how he was building a team for another promotion... Ha Ha That's football !

[AustrianAndyGull]

I will bear with him Coley but I disagree with your view that he is doing the best with what he has got. I strongly feel that he has a lot more options in the team and options regarding flexibility of formation than he is seems prepared to accept at this current time. I see no evidence on what I've seen to suggest it will all fit into place soon, the defeat at Rochdale really disappointed me and not just because we lost but because that was the sum total of our fightback after the Fleetwood game.

I was at Fleetwood really f*cked off but when the 3rd went in I was shouting at them all not to worry about it as there is always next week at Rochdale to put things right. I bellowed to them to forget about today and show us the week after at Spotland what they really could do. What happened? We all know now. The response was unacceptable. Maybe if we were away at Chesterfield then the performance on Saturday may have passed for ok but at Rochdale you can forget it. They and Knill shouldn't be let of the hook with this. Where are the faint glimmers of something coming together? Hartlepool have found something that is beginning to work but we have no choice but to stick with it and see what is around the corner?

Probably another couple of defeats in all honesty.

[AustrianAndyGull]

I also refuse to let our solitary win cloud my judgement. The first half there we were appalling and had a skewed Hawley shot from outside the box and a Downes header just before the break over the bar. That was it. In addition we could and should have been at least 5 or 6 goals behind such as the way we made a really poor side in Northampton look good. Second half I wouldn't say we went for it but we attacked a bit more aggressively and I maintain that Northampton were sh*t. We got level and we began to create some more chances.

That spell of football was enjoyable and is the way we should be starting games. Why do we start so slowly? Anyway, the upshot is we've beaten a poor team who are lower in the league than both ourselves and Hartlepool, their manager is one of the favourites to get the boot first and suddenly it's a chink of light for us and something to look back on. Scary.

Teams with genuine pace will just attack us and we'll get mullered. We have genuine pace too in our attack but do we use ours the same way as others use theirs? Nope. We end up getting hemmed in and our forwards become isolated because we don't start games on the front foot. Teams with genuine height and power up front and in the middle will just brush us aside because we let them get a foothold in the game and then they take command. Again that leaves our attackers isolated and struggling to retain possession.I'm getting frustrated and a bit angry now so i'm going for a cuppa.

[stefano]

I'm getting frustrated and a bit angry now so i'm going for a cuppa.

According to research the de-stressing factor in having a cup of tea is the ritual of putting the kettle on and looking forward to it, and not the actual properties in the tea itself

[coley in stripes]

Andy, don't let it bother you, if you do you know what will happen...... :slap:

[AustrianAndyGull]

I know Coley!

Oh and Stefano, it all depends on what is in the teabag. :devil:

[ethantufcbaker]

sad i cant see this game will be up at newport. cheltenham in the playoffs is my best memory. even though we lost, at the second leg, we played really well. never mind the 2-2 draw last season. dont think ill be going whaddon road either. oh well next season. right what i really want is a new team line up.
Agree?
OUT
NICHO
HARDING
BALL
IN
CRAIG
CRUISE
BENYON
also who is this mozika?

[stefano]

I know Coley!

Oh and Stefano, it all depends on what is in the teabag. :devil:

Hee hee. I know and don't see why Coley thought you would be bothered! Legal or illegal stimulants are an absolute must if you want to support Torquay United. Trust me I've stuck at it for 51 seasons! Steer clear of the depressants though .... there is enough of that over 90 minutes for the whole population of Belgium!

[wodger of awabia]

I will bear with him Coley but I disagree with your view that he is doing the best with what he has got. I strongly feel that he has a lot more options in the team and options regarding flexibility of formation than he is seems prepared to accept at this current time. I see no evidence on what I've seen to suggest it will all fit into place soon, the defeat at Rochdale really disappointed me and not just because we lost but because that was the sum total of our fightback after the Fleetwood game.

I was at Fleetwood really f*cked off but when the 3rd went in I was shouting at them all not to worry about it as there is always next week at Rochdale to put things right. I bellowed to them to forget about today and show us the week after at Spotland what they really could do. What happened? We all know now. The response was unacceptable. Maybe if we were away at Chesterfield then the performance on Saturday may have passed for ok but at Rochdale you can forget it. They and Knill shouldn't be let of the hook with this. Where are the faint glimmers of something coming together? Hartlepool have found something that is beginning to work but we have no choice but to stick with it and see what is around the corner?

Probably another couple of defeats in all honesty.

Don't worry too much, the board will have sacked the clown by Xmas, I just hope there are enough funds for the new manager to work with, & the new manager will have better contacts than the reserve team manager at Notts County. The last match of last season against an improved Bristol Rovers suggested that the team would be competitive this season...some hope, at present Knills team would find it very difficult to reach mid table in the Conference, & he hasn't a clue how to get the team scoring goals. Knill is taking us slowly back into the Conference, & has assembled a really poor team which is nowhere near good enough for L2.

[PhilGull]

Without wishing to repeat too much of what others have said I am happy with Knill's squad building so far and I was happy with everything he said pre-season. My main issue is his apparent stubbornness to admit he may have got a few things wrong and his apparent unwillingness to make any changes.

When he said before the season started that he wanted to give it 10 games before making any decisions about players I thought he was right. When he said he wanted to start slow and steady and build up through the season to peak near the end rather than coming storming out the blocks, being top at Christmas and then falling away I thought he was right.
I think he is wrong though in the way he has gone about his 10 game plan. It seems from the outside he has effectively said to the squad that those selected to start the first game of the season are guaranteed a starting place for the first 10 games, no matter how badly they play and that those who don't start the first game shouldn't bother working hard in training or performing well in reserve games as they are not going to get anywhere near the first eleven until 10 games are up.
Is it any surprise that our best player thus far has been Ricey, a player who know's he needs to perform well in every game or he will lose his place as soon as poke is fit again.

[AustrianAndyGull]

The first point I want to make is that it is ridiculous to just pluck a number of games to be played before deciding if changes should be made or things should be tinkered with. If things look in desperate need of change or a new direction then that is the course of action that should be tried whether we've played 2 games or 10. You cannot have a rigid plan in place such as this one and expect to succeed as a football manager. You have a preferred set up yes but you play it by ear, go with the flow and finely tune where appropriate. If you've got a knackered car and it's not quite working properly then you try and put new parts in to see if it will go any better, if you've got a stuttering football team then you try changing things around a but to see if it will play any better.

Secondly, I didn't know he said he wanted to start slowly and steadily build up through the season to peak rather than storming out of the blocks. If he did say this then the man is a total imbecile. I want to start like a train and finish like a train full stop and if I was a manager I would be trying my hardest to drill this in. Again you can tweak things in the game as it happens like if we come smashing out in a game and are battering a team but are only 1-0 up going into the last 20 then perhaps it may be best to try and tighten up then and see it out. I don't mean go a hundred miles an hour for 90 minutes as that isn't practical but you at least need some energy and positivity from kick off which we just don't have.

Also, I've seen us slow and steady under Ling and it's like watching a race between a disabled caterpillar, a fiat uno and Nico. I've had enough of that sh*t and I actually thank Ling in a way that we gained all those early season points otherwise we would have been down long ago. What kind of mentality is the waiting game, the 10 game plan, the start slowly and get better? What if we don't GET better? I'd rather start like my ass is on fire and get loads of points and then go sh*t at the end if that is how it is to be. At least we stay up. Bristol Rovers showed last season that it is possible to be near the bottom for a while then come with a late run to nearly trouble the play offs like we showed that you can start well and lose form so badly that you plummet like a stone, it works both ways and is a risky business but that is why every point should be battled for regardless of how many games have been played. Soon we will have played 20 games and have a low points tally and then we'd be in the brown stuff. What then? Wait until we've played 30 games and see?

I'm sorry but it is just bizarre IMO. Also does Knill not understand how much each defeat hammers the confidence of the players and team spirit especially if we are nowhere near competitive? The more games pass without any semblance of cohesion or team dynamics being formed, the more games pass when we start slowly, play rubbish and don't win then the more the whole atmosphere of the club is being eroded. Knill has managed to turn eager anticipation and unbridled excitement that we all felt before the opening game against Wimbledon into confusion, disappointment and frustration all in the space of 7 league games.

That is not as a direct result of fans having unrealistic expectations but as a result of Knill struggling with the job and not having an open mind.

Also, Phil has touched upon it here and Nick said something about this yesterday with regards the premise that Knill has brought players down here on and the promises he has made to them. Phil says that Knill has possible told the same players they will start the first 10 games and then he will review the situation after that.

Nick also hinted that one of the incentives used to get some of the players down here was the promise of a starting berth and one suggestion for the tepid displays is because they know they will start games because of the 'promise'.

Now I have no idea if the two rumours are true but if they are I am more than happy for Knill to leave as soon as it is viable for him to do so as I would find such a situation absolutely incredible. I think this club has suffered enough farce these past few years to last a lifetime and we could be walking headlong into another protracted disaster. Again, this is my hypothetical view about Knill if these rumours are true but even if they aren't I am less than enamoured with pretty much everything Knill has delivered thus far. He has signed Chappell who looks a real find but IMO apart from that he has signed players of inferior calibre to what we had which would make the above rumours all the more comedic should they be true.

Torquay v Cheltenham - I know Knill hates it but he needs to start really quickly, get our pacy attackers causing them problems and McGlashan will struggle to get into the game. We create plenty of chances and have lots of possession and we win the game. If not then McGlashan and co get to see plenty of the ball, rip our full backs to bits and Downes and Pearce who haven't clicked yet find themselves under a lot of pressure and we concede and lose the game. I'd like to say it could be the toss of a coin but as we can predict Knills strating 11 then so can Yates therefore the gameplan for them is set in stone and there may not be a lot we can do about it if Knill has already made his mind up. I so hope i'm wrong.

[SuperNickyWroe]

According to research the de-stressing factor in having a cup of tea is the ritual of putting the kettle on and looking forward to it, and not the actual properties in the tea itself

true stafano.

tea contains dopamine and acts as a vaso-constrictor..... :}

although, you have to take into account that Andy is on very strong medication anyway......... =D

[PhilGull]

The 10 games thing is what I have read of the situation from the outside, I have no knowledge of what the manager has said to the players behind closed doors.
I can't remember where I heard about the peaking later in the season thing. To be fair it was just realism. No team ever start like a train and plough through to the end of the season, there are always peaks and troughs. They were just wanting us to build up slowly to peak later on, rather than going at it like mad to start with and then having nothing left come March.

[AustrianAndyGull]

Oh my word! My post has holes! :Oops:


Still, it's not working and he won't change it so i'm right anyway!

[wodger of awabia]

Forget about 10 game plans, Knill's stats as a manager, etc. etc.etc.
Lets look at what he has done at TUFC which is what he must be judged on,
He stated when he took over that only a little fine tuning was required to turn things around. He struggled to recruit loan players, & the two (quite good)players he loaned were recalled at a vital time in the season. On the other hand Taylor's loan signing (Benyon) was signed until the end of the season....good plan Taylor! Knill did not save TUFC, although he may have perhaps instilled a bit of confidence in the players, what ultimately saved TUFC from the Conference was Taylor's player Benyon who managed to get a Morecambe defender sent off, & the comedy goal keeping error that put us one up, Oh & don't let us forget Yeoman's "goal of a lifetime" which gave us the 2-0 score.
Knill was signed on a permanent contract at the end of last season, but was not good enough to train up his existing staff, so had to get his little friend Chris Brass in to help him.
A lot of spin was put on his failure to sign players before this new season started, but I believe that he has not got any decent contacts in the game, & is not perceived to be a manager to send your young players to for them to gain experience, ( Ball being the exception that proves the rule).
His pre season performance is nothing short of dreadful!
He let Morris an under 21 international player go to Northampton who immediately made him captain....surely he should have kept him, improved him, & got a sell on fee for the club.
Knills next master stroke is to release Joe Oastler, who joins Aldershot in the Conference & is almost straight away selected for the England "C" team......another young player who Knill should have improved, expect Aldershot to get a fat fee for him in a year or so. Knill next failed to hold on to Saah, Howe & Jarvis ( 4 goals already this season for York). He could have signed Cooper as a midfielder & central defender but wasted the budget on other players & failed to recognize quality & experience. Knill then signs Harding in a tit for tat for them getting Morris.....not enough imagination to look elsewhere!......
There are quite a few other points that could be made about his management of the club, I have just listed the ones that really pi## me off.
I believe that he has assembled a very poor team which will struggle, the gates could drop dramatically if this very poor start to the season continues, & the weather gets colder. To sum up, Knill has fu#ked up what was a reasonable L2 side, his team is failing badly & he hasn't a clue how to turn it around.