Rainbow Laces

[Gulliball]

Being gay has never been in the majority, but what on earth does not normal mean? Archeologists have discovered evidence of homosexual activity from 2900BC. In Britain, homosexuality was legislated against in 1290. There has never been a time where humans have been on the earth that there haven't been heterosexuals and homosexuals living next to each other. Homosexuals make up anywhere between 3.5%-10% of the population depending on which source you quote, making them a minority, but still numbering millions and millions worldwide. The elephant man could be said to be not normal, describing millions of people in this way does not make sense. For comparisons sake, it's roughly the same percentage that is left handed, another 'not normal' quirk of nature.

Evolution has been pretty good for wiping out species that are not useful or suited to their environment. Yet over thousands and thousands of years, despite not reproducing, people to this day are still gay. I have no idea why people continue to state that gay people are not natural or normal, because all evidence points to the contrary.

I don't need to convince you of anything, it is your business what beliefs you choose to hold. But by and large, anti-descrimination campaigns exist because they are needed. Black footballers used to have bananas thrown at them in the UK, now this is pretty much wiped out worldwide and there are very few, if any restrictions on black players or fans getting involved in football. At this time, the same cannot be said for gay people in football - there are only a handful of footballers worldwide who have come out as gay, despite all inside knowledge pointing to many more hiding. Managers and players have come out in the media recently saying they would not welcome a gay player as a teammate. There is also still a pretty sizeable number of fans, evidenced by this thread, that for whatever reason do not like homosexuality. That attitude will die out with time, but campaigns like this are intended to help speed along this process. Wearing rainbow laces won't magically change opinions, but it might, like in this very thread, force a debate on the issue. Confronting predjudices has always been the best way to rid them.

The bottom line is that a large number of people, within football and outside, are gay. They do not deserve special privileges, but they do deserve the right to live as they are, free of discrimiation and bigotry. There are far more gay footballers than there are openly gay footballers, that is why campaigns like this are needed.

[Jerry]

Hmm what education do I need, grammar and spelling yep could do with some help there.

As said FIFA have given the 2022 world cup Qatar homomsexuality is illegal there. So who is going to change what excatly ? If Man.c turned up at Old Trafford with an openly gay player in their line up, it would result in carnage. Again who is going change what excatly ? And the list could go on and on.

As said I have worked with openly gay people and have counted them as friends, no problen acepting homosexuality, however no where in the bible does it say that man should leave his parents and join with another man and the two should become one, no one need get all pompus with me, tell me it's 2013 being gay is normal, because it isn't and never was, never will be, and don't bother trying to convince me otherwise.

Is this the same bible that says people who work on Sundays should be killed?

Or that you aren't allowed to wear polyester?

[Dave]

Is this the same bible that says people who work on Sundays should be killed?

Or that you aren't allowed to wear polyester?

Almost everyone I have ever worked with or know, will work or want to work on a Sunday including those who attend church on a Sunday, because a) they will get double pay b) added holiday time c) in some cases both. It does not mean that all of them think working on a Sunday is right, and thats all I am saying, I will tolerate and accept gay people, doesn't mean I think it's right.

[Dave]

Black footballers used to have bananas thrown at them in the UK, now this is pretty much wiped out worldwide and there are very few, if any restrictions on black players or fans getting involved in football. At this time, the same cannot be said for gay people in football - there are only a handful of footballers worldwide who have come out as gay, despite all inside knowledge pointing to many more hiding. Managers and players have come out in the media recently saying they would not welcome a gay player as a teammate. There is also still a pretty sizeable number of fans, evidenced by this thread, that for whatever reason do not like homosexuality. That attitude will die out with time, but campaigns like this are intended to help speed along this process. Wearing rainbow laces won't magically change opinions, but it might, like in this very thread, force a debate on the issue. Confronting predjudices has always been the best way to rid them.

The bottom line is that a large number of people, within football and outside, are gay. They do not deserve special privileges, but they do deserve the right to live as they are, free of discrimiation and bigotry. There are far more gay footballers than there are openly gay footballers, that is why campaigns like this are needed.

Not sure why some are confusing racism and homophobia, two vastly different things, as said, and I thought it a very valid point, there are still today 76 countries worldwide where homosexuality is illegal, further 6 that have some form of anti-gay law. Since 1994 no country worldwide is known to have any anti-race law. There is no will in any of these countries to change no matter who says or does what, the majority are Asian and African, not white European.

Even though racism still exists to appoint in football, the campaign to kick racism out of football had very few barriers to break down therefore was always going to be successful by and large. Kick homophobia out of football, jeez, there are hurdles to jump, barriers and walls to break down, oceans to cross, mountains to climb, galaxy’s to explore, and you still will not change enough attitudes, again FIFA have given Qatar the 2022 world cup they are one of 76 nations, again who do we think are actually going change or even try to change what, and that’s why I say Rainbow laces are a waste of time, a fair amount of people simply do not care, so why make such a big thing about it.

And that’s the reason why only two footballers have come out as openly gay, Justin Fashanu, and U.S.A international Robbie Rodgers, of course there are many who are hiding it and with good reason. I can see so many problems, from dressing room and training ground banter, managers and clubs not wanting to take on openly gay footballers, supporter reactions, and so on.

Let’s be clear about this I am not homophobic, and because I do not believe homosexuality is right, it does not mean that I am homophobic.

[Jerry]

Almost everyone I have ever worked with or know, will work or want to work on a Sunday including those who attend church on a Sunday, because a) they will get double pay b) added holiday time c) in some cases both. It does not mean that all of them think working on a Sunday is right, and thats all I am saying, I will tolerate and accept gay people, doesn't mean I think it's right.

So your stance is that it is ok to go against the strict rules set down in the bible as long as you get paid for it?

So having sex with another man would be acceptable to you, as long as he pays?

I'm still waiting for your views on polyester.

[ferrarilover]

I hate to chip in here, but no Jezza, that's not what he's saying at all. Read it again, Dave doesn't assert that he believes working on a Sunday is right (or wrong), he merely suggests that he knows people who are happy to put aside their beliefs in order to earn a little extra cash. I know people who sell marijuana to supplement their income, doesn't mean I think it's right (or wrong), it just means I know some people.

Anyone wearing polyester should be forced to live in a small house on an unattractive estate full of like minded people. Fortunately, that seems to be a punishment they bring upon themselves voluntarily. Weird.

Matt.

[Dave]

So your stance is that it is ok to go against the strict rules set down in the bible as long as you get paid for it?

So having sex with another man would be acceptable to you, as long as he pays?I'm still waiting for your views on polyester.

No, go back through my posts this time read them word for word and please do atleast try to understand what Iam saying. my spelling and grammar is not that bad, so it shouldn't be to difficult for you, when you done that come back and try again.

I have no views on polyester.

[Dave]

I hate to chip in here, but no Jezza, that's not what he's saying at all. Read it again, Dave doesn't assert that he believes working on a Sunday is right (or wrong), he merely suggests that he knows people who are happy to put aside their beliefs in order to earn a little extra cash. I know people who sell marijuana to supplement their income, doesn't mean I think it's right (or wrong), it just means I know some people.

Anyone wearing polyester should be forced to live in a small house on an unattractive estate full of like minded people. Fortunately, that seems to be a punishment they bring upon themselves voluntarily. Weird.

Matt.

Thank you, Matt.

[Jerry]

The point i was (clumsily) trying to make was that you use the bible to defend your reason for thinking homosexuality is "not right".

You can't pick and choose which bits we have to folow slavishly just to suit your personal viewpoint.

If we can't be gay then we should be killed for working on a sunday and should be forbidden from wearing polyester.

If you dislike homosexuality then that is your right but don't use the bible to give your views some sort of legitimacy.

[Gullscorer]

I think people are confusing different issues here. I will try to separate and clarify them.

1. Homosexuality (and Lesbianism) is not normal. It may be natural, but it is an abnormality of nature, in the same way as a club foot or cerebral palsy or autism or any other of the afflictions, disabilities and differences which nature throws at life.

2. In human society there are always a few idiotic, immature, thoughtless people who regard such differences with mockery and derision, even contempt and hatred. Their attitudes can have devastating effects upon their victims, but are unacceptable to the rest of society. (It seems there are also those with similar attitudes towards religion, which tries to present, in simpler human terms, profound concepts beyond human understanding; they appear to believe that satirical cartoonish portrayals of religions are religion's actual doctrines. Religion simply reflects human inadequacies. But that's a topic for another day.).

3. Practically all people suffering from such differences and afflictions try to overcome them or to cope with them, to enable them to live their lives to the fullest extent possible. And society, with the exception of those thoughtless few, attempts to assist them and integrate them. This has not generally been possible for homosexuals, for the reason given below.

4. The sexual drive in all animals is extremely strong. Humans are no different. Except for the fortunate few who are able to overcome those urges and remain celibate, or are at least able to keep their sexual differences hidden, the problem for homosexuals is that they have always had to search among the general, mainly heterosexual, population for sexual partners. Unfortunately, society has historically seen such searching as predatory, and therefore banned all such behaviour.

5. In today's more enlightened society, the freedom of homosexuals to pursue their own lifestyle, and the banning of harassment and discrimination, is enshrined in law. And of course it is now much easier for them to associate and find partners and friends than it ever was in the past, without being seen by society as 'predatory'.

6. Homophobic behaviour is therefore unnecessary and indeed unacceptable in the modern world and society has rightly condemned it.

7. However, while one understands the euphoria with which homosexuals and Lesbians enjoy their relatively new freedoms, it really is incumbent upon them not to flaunt them to excess, to keep a sense of proportion and to realise that, whilst they are now generally accepted as integrated members of society, society will never regard homosexuality as normal. Because it ain't, any more than autism or a club foot. And this is why so many people, without being homophobic, find Gay Pride events and campaigns such as this latest one, to be extremely grating..

[Dave]

The point i was (clumsily) trying to make was that you use the bible to defend your reason for thinking homosexuality is "not right".

You can't pick and choose which bits we have to folow slavishly just to suit your personal viewpoint.

If we can't be gay then we should be killed for working on a sunday and should be forbidden from wearing polyester.

If you dislike homosexuality then that is your right but don't use the bible to give your views some sort of legitimacy.

I wasn't trying to do that, as this thread was about homosexuality in football, and nothing to do with Sunday working, and to be honest the two used in comparison is more than a bit ridiculous. Merely pointing out that homosexuality was not in the orignal design for us humans.

I think you didn't like my approach so thought you would be a smart arse, thats fine you are entitled to do that, I will do my best to explain and answer you and any other poster as allways.

[mus1908]

Just out of curiosity did Brighton wear the laces at the weekend?

[Jerry]

I wasn't trying to do that, as this thread was about homosexuality in football, and nothing to do with Sunday working, and to be honest the two used in comparison is more than a bit ridiculous. Merely pointing out that homosexuality was not in the orignal design for us humans.

I think you didn't like my approach so thought you would be a smart arse, thats fine you are entitled to do that, I will do my best to explain and answer you and any other poster as allways.

Spot on!

There's nothing I like more than being a smart arse! :na:

To be honest I couldn't give a monkeys what your views on gays are, I saw a piece about the bible outlawing polyester and was just looking for an excuse to use it!

[Dave]

No worries Jerry, allways enjoy exchanging views with your goodself, but alas time to end this one now..

[Kernowgull]

Hate to jump in at the end, but I really don't understand how you can dislike homosexuality, or homosexuals. The act of sleepibg with another man seems pretty vile to me, but so does the thought of sleeping with some women. Luckily, I don't have to. Ive got a few gay friends, and they are great people. I take the mickey out of them in the same way I take the mickey out of all my friends for their likes and dislikes, and they do the same. They have never tried to sleep with me, like I haven't tried to sleep with most women I know.

So therefore, nothing to dislike.