Torquay United v York City - 5/10/13

[supergulls]

I don't see how todays result can be defended. Regardless of anything else, and no disrespect to York, but a home game against a side who have started even worse than we had had to be one we were looking to win.

I don't buy into the "but we played well........." line. I seem to recall our relegation years we were rarely beaten off the park. In fact in League 1 we put in a number of very good performances which went unrewarded. But dominating games and playing pretty stuff doesn't necessarily equate to points unless you stick it in the net.

I for one thought that Knill had assembled a good little squad pre-season, but its not working out at the moment. The centre half situation is worrying, as I always thought we were a little light in that position and today our worst nightmare came true. Clearly Hutchings isn't an option as he couldn't even make the bench (I will retract that statement if someone tells me he is injured) and McKenzie seems to have been absent for an absolute age, struggling with the diabetes. A make-shift defence was always going to be a danger.

jeff my man please let me enlighten you hutchings is a very good young player and is very rated by the club everybody that I have spoken to has said he is one for the future and could be a very good player for us, now here comes the but.... he is only 17. How many 17 year old center halfs do you see playing in league two. I will gladly give you a £1000 for each one that you can name that starts for his club. im sure in the future he will play regularly but I think its not going to do the players development any good throwing the young lad into that today. but hey every coach may be wrong Manchester united, Chelsea and Arsenal may be wrong who were all watching him regularly last season for the youth team which is why he was given a pro contract as soon as he was 17 and as you say he is not an option.

[brucie]

I was really shocked by the result today even though I didn't listen to the commentary. Just got home and looked at the team sheet, with both centre halves out, it really isn't a surprise.
The starting line up today looked absolutely awful.
Having listened to Knill on the radio I am afraid this is a hopeless situation - he was going on about how well we played last week (but we actually lost).
You can debate the whys and wherefores all you like but 9 points from 10 games is relegation form. The probem is that if we parade anything like todays line up in future games we won't get 2 points from the next 10 games.
Its hard to see where we go from here.

[Oil Beef Hooked]

Where the hucking fell do I start.

Negatives first

- Up to their first goal, there was only one team in it - us. They scored against the run of play which took the wind right out of our sails. The whole ground went quiet after that
- Why oh why was Azzez taken off for Benyon. After this we had no aerial threat at all
- I don't want to say it, I really don't, but Manse needs a rest. Time for a change and start Craig
- We were absolutely toothless today. We played some good creative football, but had no end product
- We are now 10 games in (or approx 25% of the way into the season) and our points total is not where it should be (approximately 13) to avoid the drop. We need to start picking up points and soon

Positives

- First 30/ 40 mins we were good. Kept possession with good passing and movement
- Azzez and O'Connor looked very good
- Cruise played well as centre half
- I thought Harding had a good game, until he was taken off injured

Overall, I thought the scoreline flattered York. We weren't that bad to have deserved a 3 nil loss. However, other teams seem to take their chances and we don't. As Brucie says, (I'm referring to Bruce Forsyth and not 'our' Brucie), points mean prizes and if we don't start picking up some soon, then I will start to fear the worst.

[bengull]

First half, playing against horrifically mediocre opposition, we were ok, played some decent football in patches but didn't test their keeper once. York were awful, and it looked like that if we could find the break-through we might be ok. O'Connor was impressive, and Bodin and Chappell linked up nicely, Azeez was quite menacing.

Second half might just be the worst I have ever seen us play. It was unforgivable, abject, passionless, and above all shite. York were no great shakes and they didn't have to work hard for their victory. As soon as the third goal went in our entire team, to a man, threw in the towel. I hate being scathing about my team, I try my hardest not to criticise in public but today the team deserve the wrath of every paying customer. The last 20 minutes lasted an age, York content with their days work just parked their bus and waited for us to make the errors which duly came with careless regularity. I couldn't wait for the ref to blow the whistle and put us out of our misery.

I don't mind losing, it happens, I don't even mind watching my team get dicked either, its forgivable against better teams, but losing 3-0 against a team as poor as York and barely registering a shot on target in the process is a downright embarrassment. Azeez got taken off, I am not sure why, Bodin got taken off, I am not sure why. Cameron had his first first-team run out in a while and showed nothing, a casual indifference to all that was going on around him. Callum Ball was left slouched demonstratively in his seat for the entirety whilst Benyon failed to escape the pockets of the York centre-backs throughout his appearance. Nothing seemed to make any sense at all. How did Yeoman get on at Bideford?

We really have not progressed at all. As someone has already alluded to, you can say all you like about Ling's teams being boring to watch but I can't remember us looking so fragile at the back during his tenure. We may have been turned over a couple of times under Ling but they were to half decent opposition, I don't mean to disrespect York at all in this because they got their 3 points, they did what they had to do, their 250 fans where an absolute credit to their club and well done to them, but they are an ordinary side at the very most and most certainly there for the taking in the first half.

Martin Ling would never have gone into a match with no senior centre-back, having to rely on a left back and a match practice rusty loanee, we can trot out the unfortunate circumstances cliché if we wish but at least with players like Aldred and Macdonald on the bench at all times we just about got away with it, what would have happened today if Cruise or O'Connor had got injured or sent off? I just don't think Knill has used his budget sensibly at all.

Anyone who's read enough of my output over the last 3 seasons will know I was a big fan of Martin Ling, I know I made allowances for how methodical and cautious his footballing philosophy was but I always appreciated the 1-0 wins no matter how by the-seat-of-our-pants they may have came about. We generally created just about enough to deserve victories under Ling, certainly I don't see us creating discernibly more under Knill. 4-4-2 is a dead formation in football, Ling found that out quickly into his reign and changed to his much maligned 4-5-1. Will Knill have the same balls to scrap "entertainment" for getting the job done efficiency?

One of my main lines of argument for championing Ling was that I felt there was a clear direction under his management, I could see what he was trying to turn us into, I could see how his mind works, what he was trying to achieve by the decisions he made, I honestly can't say the same about Knill, I am utterly confused, confused by his substitutions, confused by the omissions from the matchday squad, no-one knows what our best XI is, Ling's chose itself.

I have seen warning signs in each of our league games this season, but just about enough positives to, with time, assume we would be ok in the long run. Walking away from Plainmoor this afternoon I started having huge doubts for the first time, I just hope today was the nadir. The players looked just as shell-shocked as the fans at the final whistle, Plainmoor was devoid of passion and confidence from fans and players alike. After what I witnessed in that second half, it can only get better.

In football we all need to be honest. I didn't have the care to listen to the radio but I do hope that Knill doesn't even attempt to sugar coat that second half, that would be treating your customers with disdain, it was abysmal. I appreciate that the budget is tight down here, (I used it as defence of Ling on countless occasions) I do not expect 4-0 free flowing victories every Saturday afternoon, I don't expect a top 10 finish, I don't expect the best players in the league. But I expect a much better end product than that second half. We are 10 games into the season, the time to judge in Knill's own words. It isn't pretty.

I don't want transparency, at no point in the last 2 and a half years has anyone had any real knowledge how restricting the budget is, it can't be that bad if he's handing out 1 year contracts to players he won't put on the pitch? To experienced strikers he has been chasing all summer but doesn't trust to play in a lone strikers role?. We didn't have any knowledge when our AWOL manager would be back last season, it took us a while to ascertain what was wrong with him in the first place, we still have never been told the truth. He too was never told the truth about the budget, he too wasn't told the truth about his future at the club.

You walk around Plainmoor and no-one really know what's going on, you hear about 3 different rumours all of which stir up a pot of doubt and unrest. It feels so sterile, it feels so dispassionate, it is so disheartening. It isn't a nice place to be at the moment.

I will be at Wycombe

[hector]

Utterly abysmal today. Abject, appalling, clueless, inadequate. Shite!

To hear Knill on the radio one would think it was a decent game until York scored. Don't be fooled. It was dreadful. Two very poor teams but in the end, York looked a league above us and they were woeful to be fair.

You could probably count on one hand the amount of successful Torquay passes. Knill mentioned that we were without our keeper but if that is factor, then why are we persisting with Rice, who should have done better with at least two of the goals.

We just do not have the spine of a a team that you require.

A poor keeper, a ramshackle defence, non-existent midfield and a toothless attack, all managed by Coco the Clown who must be one of the most uninspiring managers the club has had.

Some would say it is too early to sack the manager. I fear it is too late. We are stuck with him. But ten games in, two wins, a point from relegation zone, five defeats. I blame the thick fans who jumped on the Knill-in bandwagon at the end of last season like he was some sort of saviour, and the club for going along with it when they should have embarked on a proper recruitment process like some of us urged them to. However, instead they took the easy option of what they thought would be a popular decision but instead it has backfired.

It was one of the worst performances I have seen at Plainmoor and that takes some saying with some of the poor teams we have had over the years but we are in a relegation battle and Knill is NOT the man to see us through it. He needs to go NOW!

[rooster]

First half, playing against horrifically poor opposition we were ok, played some decent football in dispatches but didn't test their keeper once. York were awful, and it looked like that if we could find the break-through we might be ok. O'Connor was impressive, and Bodin and Chappell linked up nicely, Azeez was quite menacing.

Second half might just be the worst I have ever seen us play. It was unforgivable, abject, passionless, and above all shite. York were no great shakes and they didn't have to work hard for their victory. As soon as the third goal went in our entire team, to a man, threw in the towel. I hate being scathing about my team, I try my hardest not to criticise in public but today the team deserve the wrath of every paying customer. The last 20 minutes lasted an age, York content with their days work just parked their bus and waited for us to make the errors which duly came with careless regularity. I couldn't wait for the ref to blow the whistle and put us out of our misery.

I don't mind losing, it happens, I don't even mind watching my team get dicked either, its forgivable against better teams, but losing 3-0 against a team as poor as York and barely registering a shot on target in the process is a downright embarrassment. Azeez got taken off, I am not sure why, Bodin got taken off, I am not sure why. Cameron had his first first-team run out in a while and showed nothing, a casual indifference to all that was going on around him. Callum Ball was left slouched demonstratively in his seat for the entirety whilst Benyon failed to escape the pockets of the York centre-backs throughout his appearance. Nothing seemed to make any sense at all. How did Yeoman get on at Bideford?

We really have not progressed at all. As someone has already alluded to, you can say all you like about Ling's teams being boring to watch but I can't remember us looking so fragile at the back during his tenure. We may have been turned over a couple of times under Ling but they were to half decent opposition, I don't mean to disrespect York at all in this because they got their 3 points, they did what they had to do, their 250 fans where an absolute credit to their club and well done to them, but they are an ordinary side at the very most and most certainly there for the taking in the first half.

Martin Ling would never have gone into a match with no senior centre-back, having to rely on a left back and a match practice rusty loanee, we can trot out the unfortunate circumstances cliché if we wish but at least with players like Aldred and Macdonald on the bench at all times we just about got away with it, what would have happened today if Cruise or O'Connor had got injured or sent off? I just don't think Knill has used his budget sensibly at all.

Anyone who's read enough of my output over the last 3 seasons will know I was a big fan of Martin Ling, I know I made allowances for how methodical and cautious his footballing philosophy was but I always appreciated the 1-0 wins no matter how by the-seat-of-our-pants they may have came about. We generally created just about enough to deserve victories under Ling, certainly I don't see us creating discernibly more under Knill. 4-4-2 is a dead formation in football, Ling found that out quickly into his reign and changed to his much maligned 4-5-1. Will Knill have the same balls to scrap "entertainment" for getting the job done efficiency?

One of my main lines of argument for championing Ling was that I felt there was a clear direction under his management, I could see what he was trying to turn us into, I could see how his mind works, what he was trying to achieve by the decisions he made, I honestly can't say the same about Knill, I am utterly confused, confused by his substitutions, confused by the omissions from the matchday squad, no-one knows what our best XI is, Ling's chose itself.

I have seen warning signs in each of our league games this season, but just about enough positives to, with time, assume we would be ok in the long run. Walking away from Plainmoor this afternoon I started having huge doubts for the first time, I just hope today was the nadir. The players looked just as shell-shocked as the fans at the final whistle, Plainmoor was devoid of passion and confidence from fans and players alike. After what I witnessed in that second half, it can only get better.

In football we all need to be honest. I didn't have the care to listen to the radio but I do hope that Knill doesn't even attempt to sugar coat that second half, that would be treating your customers with disdain, it was abysmal. I appreciate that the budget is tight down here, (I used it as defence of Ling on countless occasions) I do not expect 4-0 free flowing victories every Saturday afternoon, I don't expect a top 10 finish, I don't expect the best players in the league. But I expect a much better end product than that second half. We are 10 games into the season, the time to judge in Knill's own words. It isn't pretty.

I don't want transparency, at no point in the last 2 and a half years has anyone had any real knowledge how restricting the budget is, it can't be that bad if he's handing out 1 year contracts to players he won't put on the pitch? To experienced strikers he has been chasing all summer but doesn't trust to play in a lone strikers role?. We didn't have any knowledge when our AWOL manager would be back last season, it took us a while to ascertain what was wrong with him in the first place, we still have never been told the truth. He too was never told the truth about the budget, he too wasn't told the truth about his future at the club.

You walk around Plainmoor and no-one really know what's going on, you hear about 3 different rumours all of which stir up a pot of doubt and unrest. It feels so sterile, it feels so dispassionate, it is so disheartening. It isn't a nice place to be at the moment.

I will be at Wycombe

Excellent post, an awful lot of truth in there

[wivelgull]

Silence fell on Plainmoor very early this afternoon. It was a silence I'd never experienced in over fifty years of going there. It wasn't a gloomy silence, it was just a silence of ending, of defeat, of knowing that things are now set for the season and, whatever happens, we will be lucky to avoid relegation. The thing is, in all those years, the crowd, when displeased, has moaned and groaned and shouted and worn, but today there was nothing - just silence. Conversations were taking place about subjects unrelated to football, watches and mobile phones were being looked at, no-one in the end was watching the game. When the board came up showing 5 extra minuted the largest groan of the afternoon rippled around the stands. We all wanted to get away as soon as possible.
The first half was just about tolerable (by present TUFC standards); the second half was terrible, awful, hopeless, chaotic, undisciplined, without shape, without any creativity, a succession (or procession) of balls banged hopefully in the air or forward. Passes were intercepted, dribbles were broken up, the defence (what remained of it) was hopeless. An obvious current of despair ran through the players. It was the end. It's October, more than ten matches have gone by, and the stage which was set in the opening game against Wimbledon is now fully lit. With these players we're going down; don't doubt it. We might get a draw - even a win - here and there, but the die is cast. This game (the second half at least)was almost certainly in the Top 20 of awful games ever witnessed at Plainmoor. When the end mercifully came the crowd said nothing, clapped nothing, we all drifted away, most of us never to return.

[supergulls]

First half, playing against horrifically poor opposition we were ok, played some decent football in dispatches but didn't test their keeper once. York were awful, and it looked like that if we could find the break-through we might be ok. O'Connor was impressive, and Bodin and Chappell linked up nicely, Azeez was quite menacing.

Second half might just be the worst I have ever seen us play. It was unforgivable, abject, passionless, and above all shite. York were no great shakes and they didn't have to work hard for their victory. As soon as the third goal went in our entire team, to a man, threw in the towel. I hate being scathing about my team, I try my hardest not to criticise in public but today the team deserve the wrath of every paying customer. The last 20 minutes lasted an age, York content with their days work just parked their bus and waited for us to make the errors which duly came with careless regularity. I couldn't wait for the ref to blow the whistle and put us out of our misery.

I don't mind losing, it happens, I don't even mind watching my team get dicked either, its forgivable against better teams, but losing 3-0 against a team as poor as York and barely registering a shot on target in the process is a downright embarrassment. Azeez got taken off, I am not sure why, Bodin got taken off, I am not sure why. Cameron had his first first-team run out in a while and showed nothing, a casual indifference to all that was going on around him. Callum Ball was left slouched demonstratively in his seat for the entirety whilst Benyon failed to escape the pockets of the York centre-backs throughout his appearance. Nothing seemed to make any sense at all. How did Yeoman get on at Bideford?

We really have not progressed at all. As someone has already alluded to, you can say all you like about Ling's teams being boring to watch but I can't remember us looking so fragile at the back during his tenure. We may have been turned over a couple of times under Ling but they were to half decent opposition, I don't mean to disrespect York at all in this because they got their 3 points, they did what they had to do, their 250 fans where an absolute credit to their club and well done to them, but they are an ordinary side at the very most and most certainly there for the taking in the first half.

Martin Ling would never have gone into a match with no senior centre-back, having to rely on a left back and a match practice rusty loanee, we can trot out the unfortunate circumstances cliché if we wish but at least with players like Aldred and Macdonald on the bench at all times we just about got away with it, what would have happened today if Cruise or O'Connor had got injured or sent off? I just don't think Knill has used his budget sensibly at all.

Anyone who's read enough of my output over the last 3 seasons will know I was a big fan of Martin Ling, I know I made allowances for how methodical and cautious his footballing philosophy was but I always appreciated the 1-0 wins no matter how by the-seat-of-our-pants they may have came about. We generally created just about enough to deserve victories under Ling, certainly I don't see us creating discernibly more under Knill. 4-4-2 is a dead formation in football, Ling found that out quickly into his reign and changed to his much maligned 4-5-1. Will Knill have the same balls to scrap "entertainment" for getting the job done efficiency?

One of my main lines of argument for championing Ling was that I felt there was a clear direction under his management, I could see what he was trying to turn us into, I could see how his mind works, what he was trying to achieve by the decisions he made, I honestly can't say the same about Knill, I am utterly confused, confused by his substitutions, confused by the omissions from the matchday squad, no-one knows what our best XI is, Ling's chose itself.

I have seen warning signs in each of our league games this season, but just about enough positives to, with time, assume we would be ok in the long run. Walking away from Plainmoor this afternoon I started having huge doubts for the first time, I just hope today was the nadir. The players looked just as shell-shocked as the fans at the final whistle, Plainmoor was devoid of passion and confidence from fans and players alike. After what I witnessed in that second half, it can only get better.

In football we all need to be honest. I didn't have the care to listen to the radio but I do hope that Knill doesn't even attempt to sugar coat that second half, that would be treating your customers with disdain, it was abysmal. I appreciate that the budget is tight down here, (I used it as defence of Ling on countless occasions) I do not expect 4-0 free flowing victories every Saturday afternoon, I don't expect a top 10 finish, I don't expect the best players in the league. But I expect a much better end product than that second half. We are 10 games into the season, the time to judge in Knill's own words. It isn't pretty.

I don't want transparency, at no point in the last 2 and a half years has anyone had any real knowledge how restricting the budget is, it can't be that bad if he's handing out 1 year contracts to players he won't put on the pitch? To experienced strikers he has been chasing all summer but doesn't trust to play in a lone strikers role?. We didn't have any knowledge when our AWOL manager would be back last season, it took us a while to ascertain what was wrong with him in the first place, we still have never been told the truth. He too was never told the truth about the budget, he too wasn't told the truth about his future at the club.

You walk around Plainmoor and no-one really know what's going on, you hear about 3 different rumours all of which stir up a pot of doubt and unrest. It feels so sterile, it feels so dispassionate, it is so disheartening. It isn't a nice place to be at the moment.

I will be at Wycombe

[Modgull]

Just got back from the game - what a shocking second half performance! York are a poor side but it was a stroll in the park for them. Once Harding (who for the first time this season looked like a key player) went off injured our midfield was dire - absolutely clueless.

As a result the strikers got less and less ball and the attempts on goal dried up until Hawley managed to cock up two late chances. By then it was all over because the middle of the defence just collapsed.

First O'Connor was left exposed by Bodin who totally switched off at a throw-in and Fletcher held him off with ease to place the ball in the net from 15 yards. Then O'Connor gave away a needless foul just outside the area, the wall parted like the Red Sea at the resultant free kick and in went the ball in the top corner. And the third goal was from a free header at a far post corner where either Cruise or Tonge failed to compete.

The substitution of Azeez by Benyon was crazy for a team that couldn't play through midfield because he just couldn't win the repeated high balls. Ball was on the bench - why not a straight swap? Cameron was a vast improvement on the pathetic Bodin but that was too late to make a difference.

So my assessments are as follows:

Rice 6/10 - not a good second half, kicking was wayward and could have done better on the third goal
Tonge 6/10 - may be at fault for the third goal
O'Connor 5/10 - good first half but terrible second
Cruise 6/10 - clearly not a central defender
Nicho 7/10 - was, for me, our most consistent player when all around were having 'mares
Chapple 7/10 - good at times but ended up running into blind alleys
Harding 7/10 - good performance until his injury - shame he may have been coming into form
Mansell 4/10 - terrible game, gave the ball away repeatedly, effort is no longer a substitute for creativity
Bodin 2/10 - lazy, inefectual and a passenger for most of the game - at fault for the first goal
Azeez 5/10 - found it difficult to win and hold on to the ball - constantly fouled by his marker
Hawley 6/10 - wasteful in front of goal, all our best chances unfortunately fell to him

Lathrope 5/10 - showed that he is only good enough for the holding role in a 5 man midfield
Benyon 6/10 - tried manfully to make a difference up front with no service
Cameron 6/10 - was a bright addition at the end, showed where Bodin is going wrong

Referee 6/10 - missed so many shirt pulls and nudges on Azeez and Hawley but rightly booked their guy for diving

Crowd 4/10 - nothing much to cheer I suppose

It really hurts me to say it but I think Brucie may be right after all about this squad - although not right to boycott coming to games!

[Dave]

The bright point of my day, meeting norway gull and site member rickl, thanks for the intro Troj.

The match oh dear, first 30 mins we were the better side no doubt, however with out creating anything in the final 3rd. Most are not going like this, as Ben Harding has been written off and will never get credit from some even if if he scored a double hatrick.

While Harding was on the park we had atleast some control (yes with out much creativity) of the midfield, and our makeshift back 4 had some protection, as Harding was winning tackles and headers in the midfield, him going off injured was the cataylst for what went wrong. Mansell and Lathrope gave York's midfield the freedom of the town, and our back if they can be called that today were exposed.

What do we expect. A left back playing at centre back. And a left back on the park today who simply can not run any more.

We can go on all we like, however. First choice goalkeeper injured before the seasons start, 3 centre backs out, thats the spine of the defence. Yes we could have cover, with what, the club is all out of money, we can not have 6 centre backs in the squad, pretty unlucky to lose all the players mention above.

That said I can not defend this result and performance today, becoming a tad concerned.

[Burnhamgull]

A terrible performance and much of how I feel has already been said by others. The midfield is weak, I don't care what anyone says but Mansell is past his use by date. Nico played ok in patches although I'm no longer a fan. Cruise, who I like, and the new boy O'Connor, barely communicated throughout the match and up front, we lacked any presence.

What saddens me is you can see Chapell slowly but surely being dragged down to our level of incompetence. 4-4-2 is dead, I would play a 4-2-3-1 formation with Harding and Lathrope sitting in front of the back four.

On Tuesday I was at the Amex watching Brighton play Sheffield Wednesday and for the first time in my life I actually questioned why I waste my time travelling to every United home game and several away games each season to watch dross like today. This club is never going to be anything other than a small club with little ambition whilst others (Doncaster, Yeovil, Crawley, Peterboro, Blackpool, Bournemouth to name a few) have all grown. We were playing all these teams in league games in recent years yet they've gone forwards and we've stagnated.

Tonight I feel very sad that the team I've tried to back over the years, have taken a great deal of stick for and who has cost me a great deal of money has once again let me down.

[Richinns]

The bright point of my day, meeting norway gull and site member rickl, thanks for the intro Troj.

The match oh dear, first 30 mins we were the better side no doubt, however with out creating anything in the final 3rd. Most are not going like this, as Ben Harding has been written off and will never get credit from some even if if he scored a double hatrick.

While Harding was on the park we had atleast some control (yes with out much creativity) of the midfield, and our makeshift back 4 had some protection, as Harding was winning tackles and headres in the midfield, him going off injured was the cataylst for what went wrong. Mansell and Lathrope gave York's midfield the freedom of the town, and our back if they can be called that today were exposed.

What do we expect. A left back playing at centre back. And a left back on the park today who simply can not run any more.

We can go on all we like, however. First choice goalkeeper injured before the seasons start, 3 centre backs out, thats the spine of the defence. Yes we could have cover, with what, the club is all out of money, we can not have 6 centre backs in the squad, pretty unlucky to lose all the players mention above.

That said I can not defend this result and performance today, becoming a tad concerned.

Now this is a balanced and fair post. Someone who has a grip on reality. We need more of you on the Plainmoor terraces and less of the Hector's of this world.

[Richinns]

First half, playing against horrifically mediocre opposition, we were ok, played some decent football in patches but didn't test their keeper once. York were awful, and it looked like that if we could find the break-through we might be ok. O'Connor was impressive, and Bodin and Chappell linked up nicely, Azeez was quite menacing.

Second half might just be the worst I have ever seen us play. It was unforgivable, abject, passionless, and above all shite. York were no great shakes and they didn't have to work hard for their victory. As soon as the third goal went in our entire team, to a man, threw in the towel. I hate being scathing about my team, I try my hardest not to criticise in public but today the team deserve the wrath of every paying customer. The last 20 minutes lasted an age, York content with their days work just parked their bus and waited for us to make the errors which duly came with careless regularity. I couldn't wait for the ref to blow the whistle and put us out of our misery.

I don't mind losing, it happens, I don't even mind watching my team get dicked either, its forgivable against better teams, but losing 3-0 against a team as poor as York and barely registering a shot on target in the process is a downright embarrassment. Azeez got taken off, I am not sure why, Bodin got taken off, I am not sure why. Cameron had his first first-team run out in a while and showed nothing, a casual indifference to all that was going on around him. Callum Ball was left slouched demonstratively in his seat for the entirety whilst Benyon failed to escape the pockets of the York centre-backs throughout his appearance. Nothing seemed to make any sense at all. How did Yeoman get on at Bideford?

We really have not progressed at all. As someone has already alluded to, you can say all you like about Ling's teams being boring to watch but I can't remember us looking so fragile at the back during his tenure. We may have been turned over a couple of times under Ling but they were to half decent opposition, I don't mean to disrespect York at all in this because they got their 3 points, they did what they had to do, their 250 fans where an absolute credit to their club and well done to them, but they are an ordinary side at the very most and most certainly there for the taking in the first half.

Martin Ling would never have gone into a match with no senior centre-back, having to rely on a left back and a match practice rusty loanee, we can trot out the unfortunate circumstances cliché if we wish but at least with players like Aldred and Macdonald on the bench at all times we just about got away with it, what would have happened today if Cruise or O'Connor had got injured or sent off? I just don't think Knill has used his budget sensibly at all.

Anyone who's read enough of my output over the last 3 seasons will know I was a big fan of Martin Ling, I know I made allowances for how methodical and cautious his footballing philosophy was but I always appreciated the 1-0 wins no matter how by the-seat-of-our-pants they may have came about. We generally created just about enough to deserve victories under Ling, certainly I don't see us creating discernibly more under Knill. 4-4-2 is a dead formation in football, Ling found that out quickly into his reign and changed to his much maligned 4-5-1. Will Knill have the same balls to scrap "entertainment" for getting the job done efficiency?

One of my main lines of argument for championing Ling was that I felt there was a clear direction under his management, I could see what he was trying to turn us into, I could see how his mind works, what he was trying to achieve by the decisions he made, I honestly can't say the same about Knill, I am utterly confused, confused by his substitutions, confused by the omissions from the matchday squad, no-one knows what our best XI is, Ling's chose itself.

I have seen warning signs in each of our league games this season, but just about enough positives to, with time, assume we would be ok in the long run. Walking away from Plainmoor this afternoon I started having huge doubts for the first time, I just hope today was the nadir. The players looked just as shell-shocked as the fans at the final whistle, Plainmoor was devoid of passion and confidence from fans and players alike. After what I witnessed in that second half, it can only get better.

In football we all need to be honest. I didn't have the care to listen to the radio but I do hope that Knill doesn't even attempt to sugar coat that second half, that would be treating your customers with disdain, it was abysmal. I appreciate that the budget is tight down here, (I used it as defence of Ling on countless occasions) I do not expect 4-0 free flowing victories every Saturday afternoon, I don't expect a top 10 finish, I don't expect the best players in the league. But I expect a much better end product than that second half. We are 10 games into the season, the time to judge in Knill's own words. It isn't pretty.

I don't want transparency, at no point in the last 2 and a half years has anyone had any real knowledge how restricting the budget is, it can't be that bad if he's handing out 1 year contracts to players he won't put on the pitch? To experienced strikers he has been chasing all summer but doesn't trust to play in a lone strikers role?. We didn't have any knowledge when our AWOL manager would be back last season, it took us a while to ascertain what was wrong with him in the first place, we still have never been told the truth. He too was never told the truth about the budget, he too wasn't told the truth about his future at the club.

You walk around Plainmoor and no-one really know what's going on, you hear about 3 different rumours all of which stir up a pot of doubt and unrest. It feels so sterile, it feels so dispassionate, it is so disheartening. It isn't a nice place to be at the moment.

I will be at Wycombe

Bull and sh1t. If Ling had had his two starting centre half's ruled out within days he would have had to do very much the same thing. This never happened to Ling so you are talking a load of crap saying he would never have allowed this to happen.

[Referee]

First half, playing against horrifically mediocre opposition, we were ok, played some decent football in patches but didn't test their keeper once. York were awful, and it looked like that if we could find the break-through we might be ok. O'Connor was impressive, and Bodin and Chappell linked up nicely, Azeez was quite menacing.

we're shit & just dicked you 3-0, ha ha!
"can we play you every week?"

BTW, this is a goal; , you might want to show your players because they don't seem to know what one's for - except your keeper of course!

[bengull]

Without wishing to get into a protracted argument with you Rich my point was more the fact that after 10 games we are down to the bare bones at the heart of our defence. Yes there are mitigating circumstances which are unfortunate I don't doubt that, but against Newport we had no defensive cover on the bench, same again today. That lack of foresight after 10 games doesn't wash with me.

ling had no qualms throwing a 17 year Kirtys Mckenzie into the fold last season against Port Vale, why won't Knill do the same with Hutchings? I am not going to blame Cruise for our troubles because he isn't a centre back, and that's my point. Ling built his squad (2 per position) and said he would go with what he had, and only use a loan as a last resort, which he did bringing Aldred and Angus as cover.

Alarm bells should have been ringing when Downes was injured, then should have been the time to bring in a loan defender, instead he signed another attacker. Irrespective of how unfortunate we are to have both Pearce and Kirtys absent through illness, Knill's approach has been far too cavalier and our squad is far too attacker heavy (and most of those don't get a game)

Please do not group me in with the Knill out brigade (though I would thoroughly respect and understand their viewpoint) you won't find me booing or dissenting at the management. The tone of my post is that I am just confused at what is happening. Read my previous posts, I have seen potential at what Knill is trying to achieve, I just don't think he is going about getting it the right way. But until I have heard the truth about budget cuts etc how can any of us form a balanced opinion?