How many of you are actual fans?

[Glostergull]

I have just had a thought. Slightly potty I know. But what a shame we can't hire in some signing fans. Ask Bristol Rovers fans if they want to come down on loan to gee us up. once it's been started after a few games they can go home and leave us to it. I know barmy. But I would try anything once. after all Rovers fans can sing their way out of a coffin if neccassary. they are brilliant at supporting their club. Through thick and thin. Even Yate Town made more noise then we do.

[TufcHills]

Where are the days gone when home teams used to say we were the best and loudest set of fans to turn up? Some away fans used to say we were the loudest at home and got Plainmoor rocking................. Oh how times do change

[hector]

Hi Guys. So your still banging on about the players giving the fans something to sing about. Well look at yourselves. I know they can play a part when the match is a few minutes old. But i have been a couple of games this season where the players came out to a polite ripple of applause and not much else. Now how can the players give you something to sing about before the match has even started. You should have been singing your hearts out at least 10 minutes before the match began.
What your in essence saying is what can my club do for me only.
Well I am saying Not what your club can do for you. Rather, what can you do for your club.(to qoute Kennedy) don't leave it to the players. do your bit in the build up and don't let them come onto the pitch to a funeral. The onus is on us to start before play starts, not wait for play to get us excited.
We might then find that the players are more geed up and you will then get more to get excited about.

This old chestnut - so it's the fans fault. What nonsense!

[hector]

So, Hector, in all your years of supporting Torquay and watching football, you've never once seen a game where the team which played best didn't win?

Matt.

Are you suggesting that yesterday we played well? Or just less worse?

Yesterday's performance didn't warrant a point, let a lone a win.

And to your question, of course but Jimmy Sirrell wouldn't agree.

[hector]

Football is a simple game.
One team needs to score more goals than the other one to win, and get three points.

Regardless of how well the teams play, the ultimate need is that of goals. You could have 90 minutes of amazing showboating, wowing the crowd with your ability at holding onto the ball and creating chance after chance after chance without the ultimate objective of getting it into the net - if the other team then nick the ball in the 91st minute and score, it is they that win and it is they who take the three points.

That's all that counts at the end of the day - it may be a gross injustice, it may be the biggest act of robbery you have ever seen - but it's goals that win games and that's that!!

[hector]

We had the same budget and geographical location 3/4 years ago when we made the Playoffs two years running.
We concur as to the realities of being TUFC, but we can't use those two factors (necessarily) as an excuse for finishing down low year after year. It is possible to succeed on no money and as a geographical back water, Yeovil will attest to that.

Matt.

[royalgull]

It's not impossible for clubs like Torquay to make the playoffs but it is that much harder, Accrington also made the playoffs as did Stevenage, 2 similar clubs to us in terms of the poor support and low income. It is arguably tougher for Torquay than even both of those seeing as they both have major cities on their doorstep and as such the chances of loaning players is easier than it is for Torquay. What it shows is how well Buckle and then Ling to be fair did in those 2 seasons, what it also showed was that we really had to take one of those chances because unlike clubs like Bradford, Portsmouth, Oxford who eventually will be consistently good we are more likely to have 1 good year in 5, or in this case 2. it could be some time before our next winning season especially considering how we've been so far.

Back to the case in point, has it really got to the stage of fan one upmanship? If you haven't seen the Ladies reserves at Cullompton then basically you don't have a voice? I've seen 4 games this season, 4 games where predominantly we've done ok but in true Knill style we've lost 2 of them drawn 1 in the last minute and won the other. You do have to be careful if you are making judgements on players and their performance if you haven't seen them at all (unless you are brucie and everyone is terrible regardless) but having seen this group a few times, and having witnessed the game last week the 0-3 scoreline didn't shock me this week at all.

going to explain why now and I'm going to make this point as well so it's clear, I DO NOT RATE OUR MANAGER AT ALL. Right so now to talk about the reasons why, last week at Newport we did ok, nothing more. We passed the ball around reasonably well, we created nothing in the first half and due to our managers complete incompetence of not having a balanced squad we started the game with an unfit and also imbalanced back 4. That cost us both goals where our defending was abysmal and we gave a poor side a 2-0 headstart. OK we rallied a bit second half, Azeez came on (but for the wrong bloke) scored a good goal and we almost salvaged a draw, if we hadn't left ourselves with a totally unfit Pearce (more on him later) and Tom Cruise who is never a centre back in a million years we'd have won the game, still we had FOUR strikers out of 7 subs on the bench. We then heard things like 'OUSTANDING AND UNLUCKY' This was why I wasn't surprised we lost 3-0 Saturday, if our mnager thought we were outstanding and our defeat was purely down to luck and not the fact we didn't have a league standard defence out there then what hope have we got? On Saturday Cruise is starting centre back with a young kid who played at right back all last season against a side that in my opinion carries more goal threat than Newport did so 3-0 didn't surprise me.

Tom Cruise isn't a centre back, he lacks the physical strength and defensive mindset to play in the heart of a defense. You don't need to be 6'5 but you need to be strong, want to head the ball and read danger. 3 things he doesn't have and never will have, what also concerned me last week was the blokes complete lack of athleticism, for a young lad he runs slower than Nicho to be totally honest, so I'm not even sure he's the answer at left back.

From what i've heard about Pearce he could be a serious long term concern, I don't want to say too much at this stage because it's early days and I don't know enough other than last week after the game he ended up in hospital, they are seriously worried about him. Downes has a bad knee and we gave him a new 2 year deal, well done all concerned there, we now have absolutely NO right to whinge and complain when he gets injured. He has a long injury record and he's got another one, funny that.

So that's where we are, we've got no defence left. I thought Lathrope was excellent last week so no surprise to see him sub on Saturday, Callum Ball obviously will be going back now, and despite having four strikers Knill still hasn't found a combination that works. Our midfield with Mansell and Harding I'm not sure does enough even on their good days, they have individual merits but as a pair I'm not sure they bring enough to the pary and for me were shown up by Lathrope last week.

There is a thread how worried are you? Very, I was worried when we appointed Knill, a proven loser as a manger where Bury was the exception not the norm. I fully understand we're Torquay not Man Utd and our list of possible managerial candidates wouldn't be awash with champions League winners and FA Cup winners but I didn't like the Knill choice, much like I didn't like the Ling choice. These football journeymen that never really do anything anywhere long term, get sacked turn up somewhere else and do the same old. Look at his record and look at his record here, it's similar overall, when he's in charge his teams lose it's fact. Looked at his signings early season and just thought we were top heavy then, we had absolutely no cover defensively and I wasn't convinced with a couple fo the other signings and still I'm not.

I'll be going Saturday to Wycombe and they've got to come up with a response, more importantly they've got to come up with another signing this week because we can't continue with this current defensive situation.

[Dave]

Tom Cruise isn't a centre back, he lacks the physical strength and defensive mindset to play in the heart of a defense. You don't need to be 6'5 but you need to be strong, want to head the ball and read danger. 3 things he doesn't have and never will have, what also concerned me last week was the blokes complete lack of athleticism, for a young lad he runs slower than Nicho to be totally honest, so I'm not even sure he's the answer at left back.

From what i've heard about Pearce he could be a serious long term concern, I don't want to say too much at this stage because it's early days and I don't know enough other than last week after the game he ended up in hospital, they are seriously worried about him. Downes has a bad knee and we gave him a new 2 year deal, well done all concerned there, we now have absolutely NO right to whinge and complain when he gets injured. He has a long injury record and he's got another one, funny that.

So that's where we are, we've got no defence left. I thought Lathrope was excellent last week so no surprise to see him sub on Saturday, Callum Ball obviously will be going back now, and despite having four strikers Knill still hasn't found a combination that works. Our midfield with Mansell and Harding I'm not sure does enough even on their good days, they have individual merits but as a pair I'm not sure they bring enough to the pary and for me were shown up by Lathrope last week.

I'll be going Saturday to Wycombe and they've got to come up with a response, more importantly they've got to come up with another signing this week because we can't continue with this current defensive situation.

Agreed, on what i've seen Cruise isn't a centre back, allthough Alpine Joe says, Tom Crusie gave an interview an said he could play at centre back, so if Tom cruise says he is a centre back, he must be good enough. Can't agree with you, when you say Cruise is slower than Nico, against Cheltenham, first time McGlashan had a run on Cruise, Cruise not only kept up with him, he also executed a perfect tackle and stopped McGlashan in his tracks, something Nico never managed.

I have been told by a number of people now that pearce could be a long term worry, so tend to believe it now, so your right, Ball will probably have to go back now to make way for another centre back, as your also right, we can not go into another match with Cruise at C/B and the semi retired Nico at L/B.

On your point about the midfield, yes tend to agree, Mansell/Harding pairing doesn't look to be working, however to be fair Harding was having a very good game Saturday, York only came into it after he went off, Lathrope, was i.m.o worse than bleedin awful when he came on, lathrope could not pass the ball 1-2-3 or 15yrds to another Torquay player Saturday, and time and time again let his man (York) run free staright through the middle including in the build up that led to all three goals, including the free kick.

On Aaron downes thats a fair point, however no at club deserves any critcism on his latest injury, as Downes has not injured the knee with the previous problems, he has injured the knee on the other side, which he has never had a problem in before in his career as far as I know.

[brucie]

You make some fair points in that post. Particularly regarding Knill bleating on about how well we played at Newport (even in the York post match interview).
The only thing that matters is we lost. As sure as night follows day teams on a losing streak who get beaten (when apparently playing well) follow that up with an abject performance and lose again.
Cruise as you say is an abject centre half - he showed that when he played at Plainmoor for Carlisle in the cup. In the first twenty minutes he played like Calamity Jane - gave their goal away and got taken off.
Knill's squad was completely lopsided with no cover at right back or centre half, much has been made of our budget but I am not so sure the likes of Hawley,Harding,Pearce,Tonge and Chappell would have come that cheap.
The lack of cover at centre half was always likely to come back and haunt us - we apparently couldn't afford a third centre back but can afford to pay about fourteen wingers.

[AustrianAndyGull]

You make some fair points in that post. Particularly regarding Knill bleating on about how well we played at Newport (even in the York post match interview).
The only thing that matters is we lost. As sure as night follows day teams on a losing streak who get beaten (when apparently playing well) follow that up with an abject performance and lose again.
Cruise as you say is an abject centre half - he showed that when he played at Plainmoor for Carlisle in the cup. In the first twenty minutes he played like Calamity Jane - gave their goal away and got taken off.
Knill's squad was completely lopsided with no cover at right back or centre half, much has been made of our budget but I am not so sure the likes of Hawley,Harding,Pearce,Tonge and Chappell would have come that cheap.

I think you have a point here Brucie but perhaps we are being a little unfair. Many of us clamoured for attack, attack, attack when Knill came in and he has to be fair signed lots of attacking players of which most are certainly well up to the level although some are not showing it yet. I don't remember many of us decrying the lack of defenders coming in, Pearce and Tonge looked excellent additions and we thought it would all just click so we can't have our cake and eat it. We wanted attackers and we got them.

My issue is that he isn't getting the best out of the attackers he signed and now we have major defensive problems he really needs to be doing this now as we will need goals in order to get any points. Cruise plays centre half because we've got nobody else, he isn't a centre back so the criticism is a bit harsh IMO.

We can all point the finger at lack of defensive cover and a load of attackers that aren't doing the business but to be fair Knill has had awful luck with Downes and Pearce. My only criticism is that we should have at at least one experienced centre back as cover regardless as it is just such a critical position and given Downes injury record. It is easy in hindsight but I think that at the very least may have seen us through for a bit as it is now. Instead we are now relying on a full back to be the main man and loanees.

[Behind-the-Gulls]

Will know the results of Pearce's tests re his blood disorder today or tomorrow-lets hope its good news and he's soon back to normal.

[AustrianAndyGull]

Yes indeed, we forget amongst all the bickering that there is a man who is ill.

[yellowmonkey]

OK so when asan actual fan do you think that enough is enough and the club need to act?

[ferrarilover]

Certainly not when there's 78% of a season remaining and we're a club who isn't and hasn't yet been in the relegation zone this season.

Matt.

[TeenageGull]

matt, I would rather be in are position in comparison to Plymouth, accrignton and northampton, it's not all doom and gloom here in the bay and I think some people need to appreciate the fact we still have 3/4 of the season to go. I have a confident feeling that I didn't have against York this week. Let's hope I'm right