A couple of months in

[Fonda]

Thought I'd swing by, a couple of months into the season and check that everyone was still in high spirits. It seems not! Some suggest that football fans are fickle, but I'm having none of that. Is it fickle that there are posters on this very forum that were extolling the virtues of Knilly some weeks ago, who are now counting down the days until he's shown the door? Yes, yes it is.

So the season hasn't started well. Diddums. There are clubs with far greater expectancy than this one that have made terrible starts too. But where you might expect 'fans' of big clubs to whine when things don't go their way, it's not really the TUFC way. Or rather it shouldn't be. This is League 2, and more often than not, these things happen. You'll find that if you have a quick check, historically we struggle. That is our role, and to be crying about our lack of 5-0 wins at this stage is all very 'modern football'.

My opinion on our start is probably the same as most people's - it's been disappointing. But it is just a start. Knill's actual signings are confusing me somewhat - I think he's signing reasonable quality, and his ability to get players here is impressive. He does like a striker though! We've gone from one extreme to the other - the last manager evidently hated forwards, this one seemingly wants a squad made up solely of them. But like other more high profile manager's elsewhere, he's still learning about the players in his squad and looking for a winning formula. I think he'll get there.

But it's not just about Alan Knill. The players have to stand up too, and we the supporters have our own responsibility. If the players don't like Knill, or his method's, tough. Most people don't like their boss - it doesn't mean you stop working. The players are good enough to compete at this level. So if they don't want to work for the manager, do it for themselves or the supporters. Some players are going through the motions and that isn't acceptable. Irrespective of tactics, if our players perform to somewhere their capabilities, we'll win games. I don't need to explain what the supporters can do for their part. It's obvious what will and won't help.

My advice, for what it's worth. Lift your chins, suck in your trembling lower lips and take this afternoon's game (and those that follow) for what they are. Try and enjoy the battle. And if the result is a bad one, try and forget and look forward to the next one. This squad is good enough to compete at this level - and over the course of the season I'm sure it will. There are toys all over the floor at the minute and it doesn't look good.

[chunkygull]

in fact, no, it was a great post.

[ferrarilover]

Hold the front page: Matt and Shane in "total agreement" shocker.

Matt.

[Southampton Gull]

Shane, we found our common ground, only took us 7 years

Post of the year contender.

[brucie]

We are no smaller than quite a few other clubs in our league. We have a big enough catchment area - Torquay,Paignton and Brixham etc etc.
The problem is that we are producing dross football and a terminal losing side. So no thanks I am not paying for the privelege.
In fact I am now in a position to go today but can't obtain a ticket due to the ridiculous ticketing rules.
The ground won't be full either - lots of imagination there.

[SuperNickyWroe]

brilliant OP shane.

god there are some moaning f**kers on here.

[Lloyder5]

in fact, no, it was a great post.

Totally agree.

[Lloyder5]

brilliant OP shane.

god there are some moaning f**kers on here.

Yeah, gutless. I'd hate to be lining up in a football team with them.

[Robiberto22]

fantastic post and too rite we'd be down in a second with some of the moaners haha

[wivelgull]

A better display today.

[AustrianAndyGull]

Thought I'd swing by, a couple of months into the season and check that everyone was still in high spirits. It seems not! Some suggest that football fans are fickle, but I'm having none of that. Is it fickle that there are posters on this very forum that were extolling the virtues of Knilly some weeks ago, who are now counting down the days until he's shown the door? Yes, yes it is.

So the season hasn't started well. Diddums. There are clubs with far greater expectancy than this one that have made terrible starts too. But where you might expect 'fans' of big clubs to whine when things don't go their way, it's not really the TUFC way. Or rather it shouldn't be. This is League 2, and more often than not, these things happen. You'll find that if you have a quick check, historically we struggle. That is our role, and to be crying about our lack of 5-0 wins at this stage is all very 'modern football'.

My opinion on our start is probably the same as most people's - it's been disappointing. But it is just a start. Knill's actual signings are confusing me somewhat - I think he's signing reasonable quality, and his ability to get players here is impressive. He does like a striker though! We've gone from one extreme to the other - the last manager evidently hated forwards, this one seemingly wants a squad made up solely of them. But like other more high profile manager's elsewhere, he's still learning about the players in his squad and looking for a winning formula. I think he'll get there.

But it's not just about Alan Knill. The players have to stand up too, and we the supporters have our own responsibility. If the players don't like Knill, or his method's, tough. Most people don't like their boss - it doesn't mean you stop working. The players are good enough to compete at this level. So if they don't want to work for the manager, do it for themselves or the supporters. Some players are going through the motions and that isn't acceptable. Irrespective of tactics, if our players perform to somewhere their capabilities, we'll win games. I don't need to explain what the supporters can do for their part. It's obvious what will and won't help.

My advice, for what it's worth. Lift your chins, suck in your trembling lower lips and take this afternoon's game (and those that follow) for what they are. Try and enjoy the battle. And if the result is a bad one, try and forget and look forward to the next one. This squad is good enough to compete at this level - and over the course of the season I'm sure it will. There are toys all over the floor at the minute and it doesn't look good.

We all know this but is Alan making the best of what he has? The answer is no.

This doesn't mean that he should be sacked but it does mean that we as Torquay fans are well within their rights to be reasonably expecting a tiny bit better than what we are getting. Nobody is saying we're going to win the league but i'm not content with accepting incompetence even if we've had 50 years of it on and off. It's not fickleness it is having standards.

I hope Knill turns it around so we aren't in a struggle not least because some folk are going to look as stupid as it is possible to get if not. Blind faith and optimism will not win us football matches. Alan Knill is employed to do that and look at what we have, where we are and what he is doing. We're a 3rd of the season in and we look really bad. We average less than a point a game, have been well overtaken by Hartlepool who many said were the worst side to come to Plainmoor ever and Accrington are a point behind despite them being well away from us the past few weeks. It's grim and these posts based on nothing but "we're Torquay and that's what happens" and "we'll be ok although I've seen f*ck all to make me believe this" get me annoyed.

Fonda is spot on when he says regardless of tactics the players will come through. This is what I believe too and this is the most accurate part of his post. Our players will probably dig us out of this mess and not Knill. Alan is struggling more than he should be.

[Fonda]

I think you missed the crux of my point Andy. It's not about being 'ok to be crap because we're TUFC', it's about having realistic expectations. We have a relatively new manager, with a lot of new players. And those players that aren't new are getting used to new methods. These things take time. It's not an overnight process, so to be moaning and whining that the team isn't playing like a well-oiled machine after a couple of months is just a little bit short-sighted.

This mentality of needing results NOW is understandable (though still stupid) at the top of the game. But it's absolutely ridiculous at our level. You don't give a manager a contract, and free reign to sign a lot of players, only to decide a matter of weeks later - 'do you know what, he's not the right man after-all'. There has to be a degree of patience. Look at David Moyes at Man Utd - he took control of the Champions of England, barely changed any personel, and they look mid-table at the minute. His methods will take time.

What would be the benefit of changing the management? Find the money to pay-off Knill, get in somebody else who would want to dump half the squad and bring in a load of new players, and start the whole process again. With absolutely no guarantee anything would improve - it almost certainly wouldn't in the short-term.

The manager should be changed when, and only when he's PROVEN to be unable to do the job. That simply can't be the case after less than 3 months of the season. And what would probably help him to get the full respect of the players and make his job just that bit easier, is not to have the support base questioning him so soon. Have a little faith.

As for it being 'the players, not Knill' that will get us out of this. That is always the case. If the players don't perform, the manager doesn't have a chance. But the majority of those players are 'Knill's players'. So if things improve, the manager will deserve a large chunk of the credit. I hope he gets it.

[AustrianAndyGull]

I'm not saying give Alan the boot i'm saying I very much doubt he is up to the job. The reason why we have so many players unable to gel despite the injuries is because he keeps bringing in more and more players when they aren't needed. O'Connor for me is the only sensible loanee he has brought in and he even cocked that up by him having to go off on international duty. What i'm saying is it is all his fault that there are far too many disruptions because he is just collecting players. On top of this he is chopping and changing every 5 minutes. His actions remind me of England friendlies whereby a completely new team would be brought on for the second halves of games and look totally lost. That is sort of what is happening here and instead of Knill using his squad he is adding players to the mix that aren't that good apart from Azeez maybe and who we simply don't need.

If this strategy is good management and will see a settled team soon then I'll eat my hat, my coat and some celery. I hate celery.

With regards to Moyes that is rubbish. He inherited a squad that won the league last year and has added Fellaini too, he deserves all the criticism because it should be a case of him walking in, changing little and tweaking. The knill scenario is totally different and I can see no structure in his methods.

[Fonda]

You can doubt all you like Andy - but it helps nobody to continually say it until he's had time to prove it one way or the other. He might very well prove that he's not up to the job - but at least give him some time to prove it one way or the other!

For what it's worth, I'm a bit confused myself about how he plans to garner any consistency when he introduces new players to the squad on a weekly basis. But I'm sure he's got reason. I doubt he just picks up the phone when he gets bored. He's still learning about the players so is obviously still uncertain who is and isn't up to it.

We get it Andy - in August you thought he was a brilliant appointment. October is barely out and now you think he's useless.

My point about Moyes was exactly that. He's barely had to change anything and the team look half the team they were last season. So if it can happen to him, with a team of established Champions, can you not understand why Knill might be struggling with a new team? There is more patience amongst United fans for Moyes than some here have for Knill. And Moyes has seemingly turned the best team in the country into also-rans.

[yellowmonkey]

Can i just say that us as fans are managing to see the short comings of various individuals within the squad so why as a professional football manager can Mr Knill not?