Saint Greavsie...?

[leetufc]

It is too early to have an opinion about his performance as manager. Two wins in his first three games, all away from home looked promising. Since then we have looked like relegation fodder.

Some of his decisions have looked strange. I don't understand the policy of signing loan players who don't get near the team (Rudge, O'Brien), or bringing back Danny Stevens (potentially looking towards next season in the conference?). The worst decision though has to have been playing Manse at right back against Northampton. It was clearly a case of having to find somewhere to play our captain, regardless of the performance of the team against Pompey. A better and braver manager would have said to Lee 'Look, we played fantastic last week and I want to stick with the same eleven tonight' and if our captain was sensible, he would have accepted that.

But Chris is finding his feet as a manager and regardless of the outcome of this season, he needs to be the manager we start next season with. I just hope if do get relegated, that his enthusiasm for the job won't have been dented and that the fans get behind him.

[harbertongull]

We need someone experienced in the heart of defence. How about Guy Branson on loan from Gargoyle? He doesn't seem to be getting a look in there at the moment!

[leetufc]

I don't think defence is necessarily the problem. Our problem has been putting balls in the net. We constantly keep changing our strikers without addressing the root cause of the problem, a lack of creativity from the midfield.

[Fonda]

Just to be clear, I'm certainly not advocating a manager change. He's only been here for 2 months! Just highlighting to the 'sack Knill' brigade that it's not as easy as it looks. There seemed to be a thought in December keep Knill we're down, get someone else in we're safe. Well it was always going to be a massive gamble to give the job to a novice. And at the moment it's certainly looking like one. Talk about the lack of talent on the pitch all you like (and for me, it's only the skipper and the full-backs that are lacking the requisite quality), what we all expected to see from a Hargreaves team is some fighting spirit - a never say die attitude. We're seeing none of that. This is not a team in his image.

[SuperNickyWroe]

Just to be clear, I'm certainly not advocating a manager change. He's only been here for 2 months! Just highlighting to the 'sack Knill' brigade that it's not as easy as it looks. There seemed to be a thought in December keep Knill we're down, get someone else in we're safe. Well it was always going to be a massive gamble to give the job to a novice. And at the moment it's certainly looking like one. Talk about the lack of talent on the pitch all you like (and for me, it's only the skipper and the full-backs that are lacking the requisite quality), what we all expected to see from a Hargreaves team is some fighting spirit - a never say die attitude. We're seeing none of that. This is not a team in his image.

exactly shane.

thats why the legend stuff doesnt cut it. you cant ensure that players are going to play in CH's image.

as i said when he got the job - we would be relegated - and looking at the tactics/decisions i stand by that.

as you pointed out re mansell - he should never have returned to "disrupt" the winning team from the previous game and then to play him at RB,well thats great tactics......

[Scott Brehaut]

Legend or not, he knew what he was getting into when he applied to be and then became manager. He's not stupid.

I think the Board knew we were down and so decided to appoint somebody who would be a fans favourite, "reduce the pain" of going down because of who he is and look to the future.
He would have been told there was eff all money and that if he somehow kept us up he would be revered as godlike and immortalised with the rest of the greats. Regardless, he's in a win-win situation.

[chunkygull]

Just to be clear, I'm certainly not advocating a manager change. He's only been here for 2 months! Just highlighting to the 'sack Knill' brigade that it's not as easy as it looks. There seemed to be a thought in December keep Knill we're down, get someone else in we're safe. Well it was always going to be a massive gamble to give the job to a novice. And at the moment it's certainly looking like one. Talk about the lack of talent on the pitch all you like (and for me, it's only the skipper and the full-backs that are lacking the requisite quality), what we all expected to see from a Hargreaves team is some fighting spirit - a never say die attitude. We're seeing none of that. This is not a team in his image.

A few fair comments there. Now I'm probably going to get slaughtered here but to be perfectly honest I was a supporter not in favour of Chris Hargreaves being appointed manager in the manner that he was.

It is the board who make these decisions and it is the right of all those who have put their money in, but they obviously did not learn their lesson from the mistakes made by just appointing Alan Knill as Martin Lings replacement without a proper and thorough application and interview process.When Ling replaced Buckle they carefully took their time and it seemed to go on for ages. Then the next time they just gave the job to Knill, that was that and look how it turned out. Straight away the board didnt learn their lesson and they did it again, giving the job to Hargreaves and making statements about how despite many applications Chris was the only man in the frame and the only one they wanted.

I'm all for giving a rookie manager a chance but at the right time, starting with a clean slate at the beginning of a season would be best not right in the middle of a relegation dogfight. The position we found ourselves in called for a man with at least some sort of experience.

I know I will get pasted for this but the fact CH was put in charge with his ex team-mate chums having so much influence at the club really had me dreading it. Mansell seems to be undropable for some reason, even being slotted at right back to accomodate him. All of the players have been dropped and many positions tinkered with this season but not Mansell, why is that, it certainly is not because of form or quality. Can we at least just try a few games with him on the bench, everybody else has had this done to them at some point.

There are many people on the forum who looked at CH with rose tinted glasses each recent time the managers job has been vacant, likewise there are those rose tinters when it comes to Mansell and Nicho, all the absolute b0ll0cks about being club legends. The word legend is bandied about far too often and easily, yes they helped get us out of the conference, yes Mansell and Nicho long service, blah, blah, blah. Good servants, fairly decent players when on form, players who may go down well in TUFC history and folklore - yes. Legends - NO!

There are probably only a small handful of players who qualify as legends - And that doesnt mean they were made of the stuff that makes good managers.

I kept very quiet about my feelings on CH's appointment because I knew I would get hammered for it, all I would say is he gets my full support as any manager would until it becomes a time where their position becomes untenable or they are showing signs of complete incompetence and nonsensical decision making like CH's predecessor.

Early days for Hargreaves still and it is a bit unfair to give him much criticism, however he has made a few dud loan signings and a few dodgy/crazy decisions and team selections already. You can all scream and bleat about early days yet, not been in the job long, all Knills fault, left a load of rubbish, but I have seen new managers come into similar problems at TUFC before and made a difference very quickly. It usually takes brave and bold team selections and decision making as well as a new approach to things. Not much seems to have changed though, as I have said before and I have read from others today, what the hell do they do in training. If supporters can see the things that are clearly wrong then surely the coaches/manager can. Is it ego or just a sheer I'm right and you're all wrong and we are going to do it my way regardless attitude. I am sure the players shipped out on loan cant do any worse than what we have at the moment so why arent they here.

Like I said, early days, I really dont want to seem like I am criticising, he has my support and I and everyone else should believe and try to keep the faith until it is mathematically impossible to stay up. I just wonder how CH himself and the players feel about it.

[SuperNickyWroe]

A few fair comments there. Now I'm probably going to get slaughtered here but to be perfectly honest I was a supporter not in favour of Chris Hargreaves being appointed manager in the manner that he was.

It is the board who make these decisions and it is the right of all those who have put their money in, but they obviously did not learn their lesson from the mistakes made by just appointing Alan Knill as Martin Lings replacement without a proper and thorough application and interview process.When Ling replaced Buckle they carefully took their time and it seemed to go on for ages. Then the next time they just gave the job to Knill, that was that and look how it turned out. Straight away the board didnt learn their lesson and they did it again, giving the job to Hargreaves and making statements about how despite many applications Chris was the only man in the frame and the only one they wanted.

I'm all for giving a rookie manager a chance but at the right time, starting with a clean slate at the beginning of a season would be best not right in the middle of a relegation dogfight. The position we found ourselves in called for a man with at least some sort of experience.

I know I will get pasted for this but the fact CH was put in charge with his ex team-mate chums having so much influence at the club really had me dreading it. Mansell seems to be undropable for some reason, even being slotted at right back to accomodate him. All of the players have been dropped and many positions tinkered with this season but not Mansell, why is that, it certainly is not because of form or quality. Can we at least just try a few games with him on the bench, everybody else has had this done to them at some point.

There are many people on the forum who looked at CH with rose tinted glasses each recent time the managers job has been vacant, likewise there are those rose tinters when it comes to Mansell and Nicho, all the absolute b0ll0cks about being club legends. The word legend is bandied about far too often and easily, yes they helped get us out of the conference, yes Mansell and Nicho long service, blah, blah, blah. Good servants, fairly decent players when on form, players who may go down well in TUFC history and folklore - yes. Legends - NO!

There are probably only a small handful of players who qualify as legends - And that doesnt mean they were made of the stuff that makes good managers.

I kept very quiet about my feelings on CH's appointment because I knew I would get hammered for it, all I would say is he gets my full support as any manager would until it becomes a time where their position becomes untenable or they are showing signs of complete incompetence and nonsensical decision making like CH's predecessor.

Early days for Hargreaves still and it is a bit unfair to give him much criticism, however he has made a few dud loan signings and a few dodgy/crazy decisions and team selections already. You can all scream and bleat about early days yet, not been in the job long, all Knills fault, left a load of rubbish, but I have seen new managers come into similar problems at TUFC before and made a difference very quickly. It usually takes brave and bold team selections and decision making as well as a new approach to things. Not much seems to have changed though, as I have said before and I have read from others today, what the hell do they do in training. If supporters can see the things that are clearly wrong then surely the coaches/manager can. Is it ego or just a sheer I'm right and you're all wrong and we are going to do it my way regardless attitude. I am sure the players shipped out on loan cant do any worse than what we have at the moment so why arent they here.

Like I said, early days, I really dont want to seem like I am criticising, he has my support and I and everyone else should believe and try to keep the faith until it is mathematically impossible to stay up. I just wonder how CH himself and the players feel about it.

dont know why mate as i said it on the thread that we would be relegated with him as manager and nobody said anything - probably because deep down they knew that we would be going down.

and you are right re the past - look at the players that atkins kept us up with.............
when you also consider the old pals act with mansell - changing a winning team to put him back in - bad decision. and then to sign stevens.......

well I'll say no more as my thoughts about that are well documented.

[brucie]

Hector - How can Benyon be inadequate at this level. Why did a club pay 120K for him just two or three years ago then.
At least Benyon has some MOVEMENT - Hawley is shit. O'Brien has the pace of a striking slug and Wilkinson would struggle to outpace a snail.
With the options available Benyon was the obvious player to have been brought on. But instead we had Stevens who touched the ball once in nearly a quarter of an hour on the pitch. Pathetic.

[hector]

Hector - How can Benyon be inadequate at this level. Why did a club pay 120K for him just two or three years ago then.
At least Benyon has some MOVEMENT - Hawley is sh*t. O'Brien has the pace of a striking slug and Wilkinson would struggle to outpace a snail.
With the options available Benyon was the obvious player to have been brought on. But instead we had Stevens who touched the ball once in nearly a quarter of an hour on the pitch. Pathetic.

Yes, why did a club pay that amount for him? But guess what? The manager who did, Danny Wilson, soon got the sack and then ever since no manager at three clubs has considered Benyon to be good enough. Two measly goals this season says it all. He is crap. Always has been, always will be. Not good enough, not big enough, not quick enough for League football. Conference South/Bideford level at best.

[Fonda]

How many goals have our other strikers scored this season? We simply don't make enough chances. How many did we create yesterday, or against Northampton? How can you justify basing a strikers ability purely on his goal-scoring record, when he might not get a shot away from one week to the next? If he was missing gilt-edged chances on a weekly basis your (constant) criticism would be justified, but it's not the case. Give Benyon a run in the team, up-front (not out wide), present him with opportunities and he'll score goals. He's done it for us before. And he'll work a damn sight harder than most of those getting in the side ahead of him too.

I've (unsurprisingly) seen people putting all the blame at Knill's door for our current predicament - but it wasn't him that failed miserably to get any kind of passion out of the players in two must-win relegation 6-pointers at home. Would anybody have been able to tell from the performance yesterday that that was a must-win game? It was a scandalous capitulation. There wasn't an ounce of fight.

The problem as far as I can see is whatever team spirit was present has been completely diluted by the sheer amount of loan signings we've made over the duration of the season - and I blame both Knill and Hargreaves for that. Unfortunately, our squad now has a huge percentage of two groups of people - some, that care enough but patently aren't good enough. And others' that whilst good enough, simply don't care enough. There are too few that have ability and care - at least that get selected on a weekly basis.

In my opinion, the only players to have displayed even nearly enough of both are, Poke, Peirce, O'Connor, Labadie, Chappell, Benyon and maybe Goodwin. And I'd like to add Lathrope and Bodin to that. It's simply not enough.

[portugull]

A very good post Fonda if I may say so.

I think you have hit the nail on the head. Chris Hargreaves has a huge task on his hands to turn this round. Time running out very fast.

[hector]

How many goals have our other strikers scored this season? We simply don't make enough chances. How many did we create yesterday, or against Northampton? How can you justify basing a strikers ability purely on his goal-scoring record, when he might not get a shot away from one week to the next? If he was missing gilt-edged chances on a weekly basis your (constant) criticism would be justified, but it's not the case. Give Benyon a run in the team, up-front (not out wide), present him with opportunities and he'll score goals. He's done it for us before. And he'll work a damn sight harder than most of those getting in the side ahead of him too.

I've (unsurprisingly) seen people putting all the blame at Knill's door for our current predicament - but it wasn't him that failed miserably to get any kind of passion out of the players in two must-win relegation 6-pointers at home. Would anybody have been able to tell from the performance yesterday that that was a must-win game? It was a scandalous capitulation. There wasn't an ounce of fight.

The problem as far as I can see is whatever team spirit was present has been completely diluted by the sheer amount of loan signings we've made over the duration of the season - and I blame both Knill and Hargreaves for that. Unfortunately, our squad now has a huge percentage of two groups of people - some, that care enough but patently aren't good enough. And others' that whilst good enough, simply don't care enough. There are too few that have ability and care - at least that get selected on a weekly basis.

In my opinion, the only players to have displayed even nearly enough of both are, Poke, Peirce, O'Connor, Labadie, Chappell, Benyon and maybe Goodwin. And I'd like to add Lathrope and Bodin to that. It's simply not enough.

How and when did Benyon show he was good enough? Four years ago after one flash-in-the-pan season? We have been hearing this nonsense that if he gets a run in the team, he will score for years. What rubbish. He won't. He is too small, and too slow and his shots are powder puff. Benyon is meat and drink for any central defender - the opposition may as well put one of their defenders up front if Benyon is the best attacking threat we have.

Hargreaves does need to take some responsibility for the last two home games but you can hardly hold him equally as culpable as Knill for the predicament we are in. Knill made poor signings and poor decisions every week and left us in the most sorry state we have been in for years, yet I sense from one or two people a feeling that we should have stuck with the architect of our demise.

My view is that Hargreaves biggest error has been leaving out Downes. He is a natural leader. Tonge did nothing yesterday to warrant inclusion, so I think O'Connor should be put at RB and Downes restored alongside Pearce. Whilst the endless revolving door of loanees has been part of the reason we have struggled, I think we need one more - a left-back. We are in desperate need of one - and not some kid from Watford's youth team - and with a back four of O'Connor, Pearce, Downes, LB, hopefully Harper and Cooper, involved soon, one would hope that would make us harder to beat.

However, at the moment, like most of us, Hargreaves does not appear to have a clue what his best team is because there is no such thing as a best team with the dispirited shambles he inherited from Alan Knill's uninspiring management. We seem to have a ridiculous amount of players but hardly any of them are good enough, especially the forwards.

[Gloomy Gull]

I wonder what the siuation might be now if Hargreaves had gone to Northampton.......??????

[brucie]

Hargreaves biggest error was bringing on Stevens yesterday.