In the end

[PlainmoorRoar]

Got home to see the end of final score on Saturday, Garth crooks talking about relegation.

Basically said never give up, this is football, where the unlikely does happen, give up mentally and you're down. Tomorrow night will show us the mental strength of the players

[taunton_gull]

Having seen so many relegation fights down the years you just feel that the mental strength isn't with this side as was evident on Saturday. As has been mentioned in the past we've had a much smaller but more committed squad who were up for the fight, under the guidance of managers like Ian Atkins who relished the challenge of a firefight - this in turn got the crowd on board and everyone was pulling in the same direction. It is plain to see that isn't the case this year on all fronts, CH has my support as it was clear he was the only man in the frame however I felt the only realistic chance of getting out of it was for the club to do everything it could to get Martin Allen on board or failing that Paul Sturrock. I really don't blame anyone for not going tomorrow night, I'll still get to the few matches I can but it really does feel like we are simply going through the motions now.

[ferrarilover]

Northampton showed the mental fortitude we have in our squad. Accrington the same. Chesterfield yet the same again. We had two games against horrifically poor sides and one against a side where we were under absolutely no pressure because we were expected to lose 15-0. We lost all three. We couldn't compete with the Cobbler's bully boys, Chesterfield's footballers or Accrington's hoof and hope merchants. If we can't win against any of those sides, who the hell do we beat?
We had a lead to defend against Chesterfield and we gave it up with a whimper. We had a gross injustice served against us against Northants and we failed to respond. We were shown from minute one that Accrington were an indescribably poor side (I literally cannot think of a sufficiently strong word to describe how bad they were, I run out of vocabulary long before I reach an appropriate adjective), yet our response to simply to sink to their level and a long way below.

In the end, it does matter what division we are in. I don't want to watch park football. If I did, I'd go to the park instead of Plainmoor. I have long argued that if Torquay got to the Premier League, I'd stop going. It would lose its appeal. The same is true if we go down to the deep non-league. I'm not interested in the Conference South. Overweight, talentless plumbers and publicans blowing out of their arses as they punt a £4.99 Sports Direct ball around a muddy field in front of 6 idle and disinterested "supporters" is not my idea of a Saturday afternoon (or, God forbid, a Tuesday evening) well spent.

I like League Two. I want to watch L2 football. If I'm honest, I have no affiliation, per se, to Torquay. If I'd have moved to a house 500 yards from Sid James', I'd probably be on Exeweb right now, taking the piss out of the bloody dreadful chipnickers. But I didn't, I moved to a house right by Plainmoor (it wasn't my choice, and the person who chose it has been thoroughly punished) and I want to watch Torquay play a level of football which balances a meaningful standard with a lack of pomp and frivolity found in the Prima Donna division.

The Conference was fun. Hector has explained why (although his memory of just how bad we were every time we were featured on Sultana has clearly faded. I wish mine would do the same...), but I wouldn't do it again. I once spent the day at Disney Land, eating nothing but ice cream and churros, riding roller coasters until I was sick and meeting an 8 foot tall Steam Boat Willie. Would I do it again? No, of course not.

Matt.

[AustrianAndyGull]

People are missing the point here. Our predicament is nothing to do with the board. In the summer a man took over at Torquay United. A thoroughly experienced football manager along with his thoroughly experienced assistant Chris Brass. His task, just get us playing slightly better football and get us somewhere around mid table. With teams like Accrington, Dagenham, Morecambe, Burton and others all reliant on smaller crowds it seemed no problem at all. The board had seemingly made a safe if unspectacular choice and although this man wasn't wanted in all quarters most thought he would do ok.

He then proceeded to waste his admittedly meagre transfer budget on total rubbish like Callum Ball, Courtney Cameron, Ben Harding (who was rubbish before he got injured), Dale Tonge too as well as shipping off players on loan who should have been either in the team or a part of it. Krystian Pearce the only positive and even later on chose to drop him, bring him back and then drop him again. He had all summer to wheel and deal and to instil belief and get the team playing with something like we expect as fans. An easy task given how bad we were last season. He had all summer to get the best out of the players already here that clearly had talent but couldn't show it last season due to our struggles. Downes, Mansell, Bodin, Benyon, Craig et al.

We began the season needing a last minute goal by Downes to salvage a point at home to Wimbledon. The writing was on the wall. This man then proceeded to get us eliminated in all 3 cup competitions without even scoring with Swindon, Rochdale and Portsmouth all winnable games. As the season progressed the football on offer was worse that under Ling as if that were possible and this man employed increasingly bizarre tactics such as player merry go round like the Nico / Cruise saga which was just one example of drop one one week and then bring them back the next according to which side of the bed he got out of that morning. Then he added ineffective players like Mozika. He continued failing to the point that he then proceeded to conjure up new loanees each week in a desperate attempt to salvage something. Ironically this was a short term success and created a situation that Norwich boss Chris Hughton now finds himself. The Norwich fans want him sacked but just when he seemingly has one game to save his job then he wins it prolonging the inevitable. Norwich beat Spurs yesterday proving the point. Now they will lose their next 5 before Hughton has one last game which he will win. Same with Knill. We won at Bury but God knows how which gave him time then after a dismal run after that he won at home to Southend which gave him some more time. You get the point.

He then just kept on making decisions like not making subs at all if we were losing, trying to defend a losing position, making subs in the 88th minute and even then not the right ones. He was quite rightly sacked.

The one and only reason we are where we are is because of that man Alan Knill. We trusted him and he screwed us over big time. Now he is coining it in at Cobblers who will now survive whilst we go down, meanwhile Brass is revitalised at Bury who will now survive whilst we go down.

You all wanted Hargreaves, the board gave you Hargreaves. If he isn't up to the job either then I don't blame him but the board delivered and there should be no complaints.

There is just no legislating for the impact that one man has had on our club. He is the reason we are in this mess and true to form, it seems that a man who I thought was an absolute tosser has failed miserably and ridden roughshod over us has now fallen on his feet and got out of jail. Meanwhile a thoroughly genuine man like Martin Ling struggles to fight prejudice and to get back into football. Isn't it always the way.

Alan Knill, what a bloke.

[Pea]

I once spent the day at Disney Land, eating nothing but ice cream and churros, riding roller coasters until I was sick and meeting an 8 foot tall Steam Boat Willie. Would I do it again? No, of course not.

Matt.

You're nuts!!

[Dave]

At last, well done Matt, you've finally posted what seems to be a down to earth, open and honest opinion, instead of the I'm a TUFC focus group politician and my posts will toe the part line stuff, do you now feel cleansed. personally never been to Disney land, but I do enjoy watching the occasional S-D-L game my lad plays in (made his premier league debut Saturday in the first team at 16, another proud Dad moment. ) But apart from that I can't disagree with anything you've said.

[Scott Brehaut]

People are missing the point here. Our predicament is nothing to do with the board. In the summer a man took over at Torquay United. A thoroughly experienced football manager along with his thoroughly experienced assistant Chris Brass. His task, just get us playing slightly better football and get us somewhere around mid table. With teams like Accrington, Dagenham, Morecambe, Burton and others all reliant on smaller crowds it seemed no problem at all. The board had seemingly made a safe if unspectacular choice and although this man wasn't wanted in all quarters most thought he would do ok.

He then proceeded to waste his admittedly meagre transfer budget on total rubbish like Callum Ball, Courtney Cameron, Ben Harding (who was rubbish before he got injured), Dale Tonge too as well as shipping off players on loan who should have been either in the team or a part of it. Krystian Pearce the only positive and even later on chose to drop him, bring him back and then drop him again. He had all summer to wheel and deal and to instil belief and get the team playing with something like we expect as fans. An easy task given how bad we were last season. He had all summer to get the best out of the players already here that clearly had talent but couldn't show it last season due to our struggles. Downes, Mansell, Bodin, Benyon, Craig et al.

We began the season needing a last minute goal by Downes to salvage a point at home to Wimbledon. The writing was on the wall. This man then proceeded to get us eliminated in all 3 cup competitions without even scoring with Swindon, Rochdale and Portsmouth all winnable games. As the season progressed the football on offer was worse that under Ling as if that were possible and this man employed increasingly bizarre tactics such as player merry go round like the Nico / Cruise saga which was just one example of drop one one week and then bring them back the next according to which side of the bed he got out of that morning. Then he added ineffective players like Mozika. He continued failing to the point that he then proceeded to conjure up new loanees each week in a desperate attempt to salvage something. Ironically this was a short term success and created a situation that Norwich boss Chris Hughton now finds himself. The Norwich fans want him sacked but just when he seemingly has one game to save his job then he wins it prolonging the inevitable. Norwich beat Spurs yesterday proving the point. Now they will lose their next 5 before Hughton has one last game which he will win. Same with Knill. We won at Bury but God knows how which gave him time then after a dismal run after that he won at home to Southend which gave him some more time. You get the point.

He then just kept on making decisions like not making subs at all if we were losing, trying to defend a losing position, making subs in the 88th minute and even then not the right ones. He was quite rightly sacked.

The one and only reason we are where we are is because of that man Alan Knill. We trusted him and he screwed us over big time. Now he is coining it in at Cobblers who will now survive whilst we go down, meanwhile Brass is revitalised at Bury who will now survive whilst we go down.

You all wanted Hargreaves, the board gave you Hargreaves. If he isn't up to the job either then I don't blame him but the board delivered and there should be no complaints.

There is just no legislating for the impact that one man has had on our club. He is the reason we are in this mess and true to form, it seems that a man who I thought was an absolute tosser has failed miserably and ridden roughshod over us has now fallen on his feet and got out of jail. Meanwhile a thoroughly genuine man like Martin Ling struggles to fight prejudice and to get back into football. Isn't it always the way.

Alan Knill, what a bloke.

, nay, great posting.

[Dave]

People are missing the point here. Our predicament is nothing to do with the board. In the summer a man took over at Torquay United.

Sorry Andy and Scott, not ready to post my thoughts on this just yet, believe you me it's coming, but there are "some" board members who have made some bloody awful decisions, even before Lingy went sick, decisions made by the board, maybe on bad advice, maybe because they had no choice set us on this path 18 months ago, money used to sack Alan Knill, could have been used to back the guy, maybe he would have signed a number of different players, same applies to Martin Ling before him, that's just a small preview of what I'm thinking right now, and why I feel the way I do.

[AustrianAndyGull]

This is an interesting subject actually. Do we go and watch Torquay because we are fans or because we see it as 'entertainment'? What Matt is effectively saying is that he likes to watch us in league 2 because he sometimes enjoys it as entertainment but if we were to be playing in front of one man and his dog in the local park as TUFC then he wouldn't go because it is not entertaining. There is nothing wrong with this but I just find it interesting the reason people go and watch Torquay.

I have always had the view that if you support a club you go regardless. It is not a right or wrong view, just my opinion and even if we were in the lower echelons of non league football my colours are nailed and there is no going back. The only thing that would make me think twice is if I felt the club were mugging me off with regards ticket prices and stuff.

It seems that many of you won't go if we dropped and I get the feeling that partly it is because you feel the 'entertainment value' and 'matchday experience' wouldn't be worth the admission if this were the case.

I can certainly understand that but I just find it fascinating what part TUFC plays in peoples lives. Is it something to do on a Saturday or is it that you have to be there out of sense of duty regardless? Interesting.

[ferrarilover]

At last, well done Matt, you've finally posted what seems to be a down to earth, open and honest opinion, instead of the I'm a TUFC focus group politician and my posts will toe the part line stuff, do you now feel cleansed. personally never been to Disney land, but I do enjoy watching the occasional S-D-L game my lad plays in (made his premier league debut Saturday in the first team at 16, another proud Dad moment. ) But apart from that I can't disagree with anything you've said.

Ahahahaha, brilliant. This is like that time I was staff on here. I carried on exactly as I always had, and all I got back was a load of old bollocks about "Matt the Mod". I'm moving in the summer, so the forthcoming meeting is likely to be my last as a FG member. In the coming years, I'll keep posting exactly as I always have, with one eye on the real world and with a knowledge and understanding of the realities of running a professional football club. I won't be a member of any group, but my opinions will remain the same. I bet I don't get any of this old shit this time next year.

Matt.

[AustrianAndyGull]

Sorry Andy and Scott, not ready to post my thoughts on this just yet, believe you me it's coming, but there are "some" board members who have made some bloody awful decisions, even before Lingy went sick, decisions made by the board, maybe on bad advice, maybe because they had no choice set us on this path 18 months ago, money used to sack Alan Knill, could have been used to back the guy, maybe he would have signed a number of different players, same applies to Martin Ling before him, that's just a small preview of what I'm thinking right now, and why I feel the way I do.

Hi Dave

I just post as I see it, I have to be honest and say that I have zero idea of anything that goes on behind the scenes at Torquay and even if I did I probably wouldn't understand it anyway!

I am interested in why people think the board are to blame so I can try and understand but for now I just see one man who has had plenty of opportunity to do his job properly not do this make seemingly straightforward tasks look like circus games. The board weren't to know just what an idiot Knill was to be and just how badly he would balls things up. Nobody did. That is why I don't think they can be apportioned blame for this season. Like I said, I have no knowledge of things behind the scenes but my black and white view is that any random average l2 manager appointed and performing to anywhere near like normal ability would have seen us a lot higher in the table than we are now and so it leads me back to Knill as the root of the disease.

[Dave]

Ahahahaha, brilliant. This is like that time I was staff on here. I carried on exactly as I always had, and all I got back was a load of old bollocks about "Matt the Mod". I'm moving in the summer, so the forthcoming meeting is likely to be my last as a FG member. In the coming years, I'll keep posting exactly as I always have, with one eye on the real world and with a knowledge and understanding of the realities of running a professional football club. I won't be a member of any group, but my opinions will remain the same. I bet I don't get any of this old sh*t this time next year.

Matt.

Where you moving to young man ? And oh yes you will on the other point.

[darryl71]

Hi Dave

I just post as I see it, I have to be honest and say that I have zero idea of anything that goes on behind the scenes at Torquay and even if I did I probably wouldn't understand it anyway!

I am interested in why people think the board are to blame so I can try and understand but for now I just see one man who has had plenty of opportunity to do his job properly not do this make seemingly straightforward tasks look like circus games. The board weren't to know just what an idiot Knill was to be and just how badly he would balls things up. Nobody did. That is why I don't think they can be apportioned blame for this season. Like I said, I have no knowledge of things behind the scenes but my black and white view is that any random average l2 manager appointed and performing to anywhere near like normal ability would have seen us a lot higher in the table than we are now and so it leads me back to Knill as the root of the disease.

That particular line could be applied to more than one person at TUFC.

[brucie]

I don't think anyone can argue that Knill has cost us. He has made some awful decisions selection wise and some dreadful errors tactically.
Myself and Wivelgull were ridiculed after the Wimbledon game for saying that we would be in relegation trouble. Posters such as gullinwotplaces and Fl were at totally opposite ends of the spectrum to ourselves. Nothing wrong with that. At the end of the day we all turn up at Plainmoor hoping our team will win.
As the season has gone on though our views have seem to come together as our chances of staying up have faded.
With home games against Accrington and Burton we still had a decent chance to get ourselves in a better position.
As has been stated Accrington were an absolutely appalling side,terrible.
Yet by half time without actually doiing anything we had been kept in the game by Poke.
Of course its Knills fault - he was clueless.
He signed some terrible players.
Tonge who is worse than Oastler.
Hawley - he is possibly one of the worst strikers we have ever had. Plays almost the whole game with his back to goal. He must be a centre halfs dream to mark.
You could go on and on.
One of the key errors was not to sign any centre half as cover for Downes and Pearce. When injuries arrived over he was then forced to play Cruise in this position.
Cruise is probably the worst defender we have ever had - how on earth was he ever on Arsenals books.
When Pearce was fit Knill then left him out over the new year period - another quite ridiculous error of judgement as desperately needed points disappeared.
Then onto Hargreaves - in all fairness its not his fault but a succession of desperately awful signings who are either inured,don't play or when they do seem incapable of playing professional football seem to have made the situation worse.
Its a dismal situation it really is.

[Dave]

That's because you're not seeing certain things that I am, for a start you have to ask yourself a question, why did Alan Knill believe he had room left to sign Cooper in the summer, as he tried to, to find the money wasn't there, yet days after AK was sacked money was found to sign Cooper, Shaun Cooper wouldn't have had some road to Damascus experience, and suddenly drop his wage demands by half , now would he? Had AK been allowed to sign Cooper as he wanted to, our full back problem might not have been so bad, now would it?

What's AK's pay off, £100k ? Well £60-70k would have paid the wages of the type of striker AK actually wanted to sign, not the one's he did, see is the picture now building up for some. In the end I lost faith in Alan Knill, yes, because after Plymouth it was obvious he had lost all confidence from the players and fans alike, when you get to that stage, there is only one option, an option that could have avoided, for many reasons.