Pro contracts given to ...

[Dave]

Sorry Rich, I'm not sure Motorman's post adds any value at all. The suggestion that our youth team management are doing a really good job, well I'm not sure about that at all, see Ryan Y4L post. And the suggestion that boys locally might not be good enough is a total crock of shite to be honest.

Lets start by looking at Plymouth's first team squad; Tyler Harvey, Paul Wotton (Plymouth) Luke Young (Ivybridge) Ben Purrington (Exeter)

Now Exeter's squad; Christy Pym, Matt Grimes, Jacob Cane, Liam Sercombe, Jordan Moore-Taylor all (Exeter) Craig Woodman (Tiverton) Aaron Dawson (Exmouth) and worst of all Jamie Reid (Torquay)

There's all the evidence you need, if your prepared to look for and give local talent a chance it's surprising what can happen. Problem is, Goeff Harrop doesn't give a rats arse about local talent, and is more interested in feather the nest of his big time contacts in London and abroad.

Back at Christmas when the youth academies U16 sides had their reviews, if what I've been told is correct just 4 players were giving youth pro contracts, and just 1 lad who is from Plymouth was the only 1 close to being local. two lads we let go at Christmas, who I know personally amongst other players, remember they have only just turned 16 and are still at school, have both made their full debuts in the South West peninsula league since leaving our club, what does tell me, what should that tell anyone reading this, yes, exactly, both should still be on our books.

Compare that to Exeter, where I've heard the majority of their U16 side were offered youth pro contracts, mostly all local lads. We've had 7 years now, 4 with Geoff I believe, overnight, my god, I suppose the speed our club works at 4-7 years could well be deemed overnight. Somebody needs to question the bullshit, if local lads really aren't good enough, why is are club paying good money after bad for a U8-U16 academy, because so far we've produced nothing from it.

Maybe we should just stick to a much cheaper level 4 academy and carry on working with these late developers from London.

[Gulliball]

Unless we're rejecting better quality local players (who already have the choice of Plymouth and Exeter too) then I don't see why casting our net wider is a negative thing at all. Having 11 players from Torquay would be lovely, but those days are gone. We're not playing against 11 players from Wycombe and 11 players from Hartlepool, we have to compete against bigger budgets that can afford to bring in good players. Our most famous successes have been Lee Sharpe and Matt Elliot, brought in from Birmingham and London when of a similar age to these players. If a gem is out there, then the wider you are searching the better.

To say that Geoff Harrop "doesn't give a rats arse about local talent" sounds like personal emotion taking over. When the youth side were first re-launched, it was the best players from Paignton College and that was it. The chance of getting a first team player from it was virtually nil. Now we are building in the right direction and are getting youngsters into professional contracts and into the fringes of the first team, which is what you want.

[Bomber]

Sorry Rich, I'm not sure Motorman's post adds any value at all. The suggestion that our youth team management are doing a really good job, well I'm not sure about that at all, see Ryan Y4L post. And the suggestion that boys locally might not be good enough is a total crock of shite to be honest.

Lets start by looking at Plymouth's first team squad; Tyler Harvey, Paul Wotton (Plymouth) Luke Young (Ivybridge) Ben Purrington (Exeter)

Now Exeter's squad; Christy Pym, Matt Grimes, Jacob Cane, Liam Sercombe, Jordan Moore-Taylor all (Exeter) Craig Woodman (Tiverton) Aaron Dawson (Exmouth) and worst of all Jamie Reid (Torquay)
There's all the evidence you need, if your prepared to look for and give local talent a chance it's surprising what can happen. Problem is, Goeff Harrop doesn't give a rats arse about local talent, and is more interested in feather the nest of his big time contacts in London and abroad.

Back at Christmas when the youth academies U16 sides had their reviews, if what I've been told is correct just 4 players were giving youth pro contracts, and just 1 lad who is from Plymouth was the only 1 close to being local. two lads we let go at Christmas, who I know personally amongst other players, remember they have only just turned 16 and are still at school, have both made their full debuts in the South West peninsula league since leaving our club, what does tell me, what should that tell anyone reading this, yes, exactly, both should still be on our books.

Compare that to Exeter, where I've heard the majority of their U16 side were offered youth pro contracts, mostly all local lads. We've had 7 years now, 4 with Geoff I believe, overnight, my god, I suppose the speed our club works at 4-7 years could well be deemed overnight. Somebody needs to question the bullshit, if local lads really aren't good enough, why is are club paying good money after bad for a U8-U16 academy, because so far we've produced nothing from it.

Maybe we should just stick to a much cheaper level 4 academy and carry on working with these late developers from London.

Probably worse than that still is Kieffer Moore, who is currently playing for Yeovil Town after playing for Paignton Saints in the South Devon League around three years ago!

Also, when we didn't have a youth set-up between 2004 and 2007, Sean Morrison (Reading); Ben Tozer (Northampton via Newcastle) and Ben Joyce (Weymouth via us) were all let go by Argyle- at the age of 16- and oromptly taken to Swindon by Dave Byrne- who briefly served as assistant to Ian Atkins.

What Geoff Harrop is doing isn't about youth development, it's about commodities dealing in effect.

If we had started the youth development programme in 2006 (or not scrapped it at all) we might have been able snap up all of those aforementioned players, and we could even have had a nous to appoint Dave Byrne as Head of Youth (He performed a similar role at Swindon under Paul Sturrock and is currently in charge of Sheffield Wednesday's Under-21 development squad).

[Dave]

To say that Geoff Harrop "doesn't give a rats arse about local talent" sounds like personal emotion taking over. When the youth side were first re-launched, it was the best players from Paignton College and that was it. The chance of getting a first team player from it was virtually nil. Now we are building in the right direction and are getting youngsters into professional contracts and into the fringes of the first team, which is what you want.

Not meaning this as an attempt to start an argument with you, understand what your saying and do agree in part. There's nothing wrong with casting the net wider at all, if there's a quality young lad up in, say Reading with out a club, and we know about bring him in by all means. Trust my view hasn't been formed of the back of personal emotion, I've been involved in youth development coaching at a local level for along time, I would love to get involved at a professional level, but don't either the time nor the relevant qualifications.

My view has been formed of the back of a great deal of insight, not only of our own academy but, of other clubs as well, also I'm lucky enough to know some who run professional development academies, for a small few local players I know that I feel should still be with the club, I also a few who were released and personally believe the club got spot on, my view point has been formed of the back of, a great deal off frustration.

When you talk about Paignton college, yes, I totally agree the chances of finding a player from there is slim, I can tell you as I've spoken to the course director personally, that course is not run as an elite player programme, it also has competition from Tiegnmouth college (Exeter city) South Devon Tech ( Plymouth) and South Dartmoor(Chelsea foundation) some of these other link up courses run both local and elite player programmes.

Your focus seems to be purely on the youth team, I have no worries there. My focus is on the U8-U16 element of the academy, this is where your local born and developed talent is going to come from. My biggest frustration is the constant suggestion there isn't the relevant quality down here, there is, that talent needs a chance, not suggesting we could and should have 11 players from Torquay, but across the Bay, South Hams and Teignbridge there is quality, and we should be getting at least some through from this area.

My frustration is we've been relegated out of the League, some have pointed towards the club not competing on wages, yet we've spent a serious small fortune on chasing level 3 status including the employment of additional full time coaching staff needed to gain that status.

My frustration in part is down to the recent U16 side, this was the very first generation of players that started at the academy at the beginning (2007) some of these lads had gone right through to the end, we as a club have spent £xxx's developing each of those players, just to let them all go, yes, in some cases correct, in others, no, they should been given that chance to progress further, and to see some of them already earning money for playing suggests my view point to be correct.

Every club should be moving at least 7-8 players through into it's youth team from it's U16 side, we had 4 players, 3 of those had been with the club less than a year, that adds to my frustration, this % has to improve and quickly, other wise, why is the club spending so much money on youth development, a said level 4 status would allow to continue working with a youth team/late developer squad, some thing we seem very good at, and would be so, so much cheaper.

Just to add when Bomber says this "What Geoff Harrop is doing isn't about youth development, it's about commodities dealing in effect" I believe he's right, which is a concern because it should be about youth development, I also believe that what GH says in public and what eh thinks in private are two very different things.