Torquay United v Forest Green Rovers matchday thread

[Dave]

Nobody has commented on my suggestion, in an earlier post, that when we defend a free kick in such a dangerous position we should put 2 defenders, one on each post, to make the target smaller for the player taking the kick. We could still have 6 or 7 in the wall as well.

If I've understood correctly what your saying my answer would be; there's no problem putting defenders on the post from corners, or from set piece free kicks, but direct free kick, centrally 20 yards out absolutely not, for a start the two players on the posts are going to get in the keepers way, but the most important thing of all, the two players on the posts are playing the entire opposition on-side.

So, the opposition will have the opportunity to flood the box behind your defensive wall and are likely to score off any rebound, so you couldn't have a defensive wall, also if you have 6 in the wall and 2 on the posts your now left with 2 spare outfield players, so if the opposition didn't flood the box your now 2 v11, not a good idea in my view.

[Dave]

I personally do not think I'm being harsh on Cruise at all, I accept he has to tuck in, no problem with that, no problem with the fact Cruise goes with the runner into the box, the primary job of a full back is to stop the cross coming in, for me when the balls played out wide Crusie does the right thing, he goes out to defend the cross, for me this is where I personally have a problem, I do not think he does no where near enough, and his attempt to stop the cross is at best lame.

This come as no surprise to the poster or anyone else that reads the forum, I can not agree with arcadia, I would like to but just can't. How can Ricey's wall not be set right ? the defender on the end of the wall moves out of the way, the ball deflects off him and into the back of the net, if the defender stands his ground the ball hits him and Martin Rice does not have a shot to save, that's the point missed by so many, and proof the wall was set correctly.

How could we have been defending to deep for the first ? Guthrie is behind what I loathe to call a defensive line, as there not in any sort of line, if there was Guthrie could have been caught offside , but the fact remains Guthrie was in behind and unmarked, so we couldn't have been defending to deep.

The point about all six goals was a good one, anyone who saw the England match last night would have seen Clyne give a master class in full back play, but then he's an international and we're a conference premier side, so is poor defending indicative of the level we play at, also another good point is about communication, it's hard to say from stood on the pop side, but the lack of organisation does appear to stem from a lack of communication back there.

[ferrarilover]

The ball landed 6 yards from our goal, dead centre, having traveled 40 yards to get there, from the same side were set up to defend... And none of you thinks Rice should be claiming a punch?

Ok, if you're sure.

Matt.

[Kit_robin]

Rice couldn't come for first goal, he would have been beaten to the ball.

We definitely DID defend too deep though, something that my friends and I comment on nearly every game. After defending set pieces and initially clearing our lines, we are very slow to creep up. After we cleared the ball from initial free kick look how long it takes for the ball to come back in, and look at how far out the ball goes. We should be standing on the 18 yard line at worst, possibly a bit higher, ad it was the defence got caught out running forward from the six yard line.

I agree with forever about cruises lame attempts to block the ball. I said it was harsh to blame him for the goal, but it is undeniable that cruise has an aversion to being hit by the ball as he is constantly turning his back, flinching, closing his eyes and pulling out of headers during games. It's no secret we need a left back.

[tufc si]

We have a seemingly more than capable left-back already, Ives. I'm not sure whether Jesus thinks it's too soon to throw him in to the mix being only a youngster, but from the reviews about his minutes so far, it seems they have been nothing but positive!!

CH has already binned off Tongy and bought in a better replacement (still early days but Berry looks a cut above him), so I honestly don't know why he is persevering with Cruise??

[arcadia]

We have a seemingly more than capable left-back already, Ives. I'm not sure whether Jesus thinks it's too soon to throw him in to the mix being only a youngster, but from the reviews about his minutes so far, it seems they have been nothing but positive!!

CH has already binned off Tongy and bought in a better replacement (still early days but Berry looks a cut above him), so I honestly don't know why he is persevering with Cruise??

He was injured in the Tiverton game but still played better than you know who!

[Gullscorer]

Levi also did well in yesterday's FA Youth Cup game, despite missing his penalty kick.

[arcadia]

I personally do not think I'm being harsh on Cruise at all, I accept he has to tuck in, no problem with that, no problem with the fact Cruise goes with the runner into the box, the primary job of a full back is to stop the cross coming in, for me when the balls played out wide Crusie does the right thing, he goes out to defend the cross, for me this is where I personally have a problem, I do not think he does no where near enough, and his attempt to stop the cross is at best lame.

This come as no surprise to the poster or anyone else that reads the forum, I can not agree with arcadia, I would like to but just can't. How can Ricey's wall not be set right ? the defender on the end of the wall moves out of the way, the ball deflects off him and into the back of the net, if the defender stands his ground the ball hits him and Martin Rice does not have a shot to save, that's the point missed by so many, and proof the wall was set correctly.

How could we have been defending to deep for the first ? Guthrie is behind what I loathe to call a defensive line, as there not in any sort of line, if there was Guthrie could have been caught offside , but the fact remains Guthrie was in behind and unmarked, so we couldn't have been defending to deep.

The point about all six goals was a good one, anyone who saw the England match last night would have seen Clyne give a master class in full back play, but then he's an international and we're a conference premier side, so is poor defending indicative of the level we play at, also another good point is about communication, it's hard to say from stood on the pop side, but the lack of organisation does appear to stem from a lack of communication back there.

This does not come out of the coaching manual but it's the keepers job to talk the back four to hold their line and in the position where the free kick was taken it should have been, on or outside the penalty area.
Whoever is behind the back four of the opposition forget about as if the ball goes in their direction their offside. Once the back four retreat five or six yards which it did your then looking at the keepers starting position which should have been around the six yard line. I was looking for Rice and he was on his line if his starting position was as I said and his talking more authoritative he would have had a chance of getting his fist on the ball.
The reason we are talking about this is because he was in no mans land!
The manager would have wanted more from him I assure you.

[tomogull]

Also another good point is about communication, it's hard to say from stood on the pop side, but the lack of organisation does appear to stem from a lack of communication back there.

Forever makes a good point here. There doesn't seem to be anyone organising the defence a la John Terry. Krystian Pearce was quite vocal last season and was talked about as possible captain this season before his injury but he was quiet on Saturday, presumably because he is still playing his way back in. You'd think Aaron Downes with his experience would be doing a bit of organising but he doesn't seem to be doing it. As he's Australian, you'd expect him to be VERY vocal !! The only one who has taken it on at times is young Angus. I think Chris and more especially Lee Hodges with his years of experience as a defender, has to make sure someone is taking responsibility for organising the defence, especially for free kicks.

[arcadia]

Forever makes a good point here. There doesn't seem to be anyone organising the defence a la John Terry. Krystian Pearce was quite vocal last season and was talked about as possible captain this season before his injury but he was quiet on Saturday, presumably because he is still playing his way back in. You'd think Aaron Downes with his experience would be doing a bit of organising but he doesn't seem to be doing it. As he's Australian, you'd expect him to be VERY vocal !! The only one who has taken it on at times is young Angus. I think Chris and more especially Lee Hodges with his years of experience as a defender, has to make sure someone is taking responsibility for organising the defence, especially for free kicks.

When Rice was playing well he was doing it but he's gone into his shell.

[Dave]

I take your point about keeper communication arcadia. Been privileged to see a lot of professional goalkeeper coaching by a number of different keeper coach's including our own KV, I've seen young keepers taken through free kick scenarios, how to set their walls and positioning, but ultimately, the keeper can set his wall shout out them to 'hold' all he likes, but if they jump out of the way when the kick is taken, the ball deflects of one of them past the keeper, the keeper can not be blamed, there's only so much shouting he can do, it's the defenders responsibility to carry out the instruction, as said, if the wall stands it's ground Ricey has no shot to save, therefore the wall is set correctly.

And the end of the day we could in danger of going around and around in circles here, we're all knowledgeable, we have our opinions, all we can do is hope the manager and coaching staff are trying to sort these lapses on the training ground, because their opinions are really the only opinions that count.

[tomogull]

And the end of the day we could in danger of going around and around in circles here, we're all knowledgeable, we have our opinions, all we can do is hope the manager and coaching staff are trying to sort these lapses on the training ground, because their opinions are really the only opinions that count.

Correction Forever - we all THINK we're knowledgeable (although you and Arcadia appear to be more knowledgeable than most). Really we're all 'back seat drivers' telling the one in charge what they should be doing !! On to Gateshead now which will probably be a 0 - 0 draw. We can then rubbish the forwards .... !!

[arcadia]

Forevertufc I know the free kick was a question mark but if you read my first post I said that Rice looked like a lost sheep he did not inspire confidence. Yes the wall moved but it's a shame Rice did not as he might have stopped it. A keeper should always shadow a shot what I mean by that is follow where it goes with arms and may be body I was in line with the free kick and Rice did not spend enough time on his wall as he was in the middle of his goal a long time before the kick was taken and did not look comfortable. What I am trying to get over is that a confident Rice would have saved it.
Being a keeper, this is an interesting point for me as I have taught a lot of keepers things that have been passed on to me. But confidence comes from within.

The first goal which I was referring to in my last post was basic keeper knowledge and a lack of belief.
I know Rice can do these things and this is what I would be telling him if I was his manager, but at the moment he's costing us.

[Dave]

Correction Forever - we all THINK we're knowledgeable (although you and Arcadia appear to be more knowledgeable than most). Really we're all 'back seat drivers' telling the one in charge what they should be doing !! On to Gateshead now which will probably be a 0 - 0 draw. We can then rubbish the forwards .... !!

Indeed, slight error on my part. Oh and to be fair I've never claimed to be an expert or past on my opinion's to be fact.

[arcadia]

Peace but great to express ourselves.
In football you learn every day I wish the referee's did though. joke.