Torquay United v Cheltenham Town

[Gullscorer]

We had a poor, poor game; happens to every team sometime or other.

The reasons, all perfectly valid and true, why we are not at or near the top of the table have already been stated (e.g. by Madgull on this thread). We have a young inexperienced team still in the process of being moulded into a competitive force. The manager has already said the team needs one more experienced player but the club cannot afford one.

We may well end up again in a mid-table position this season, and we may be fortunate to do so. And again the reasons will be as others have already stated. But even so, our long-term prospects are better then they were a season or two ago, with all the problems we had then. We are very fortunate that events over the past few months happened as they did, otherwise we may not have had a club and a team to support.

Supporters can now do one of two things: we can whinge and criticise all we want whilst not bothering to attend more than a game or two all season, or we can go to matches, support the team, even donate to the Players Fund, a one-off payment or, even better, a small regular monthly sum: http://www.torquayunited.com/news/artic ... 75268.aspx

And, above all, have a little patience. Rome wasn't built in a day.

[Sunnysideup]

EDIT: AND all of this against a team who, by all accounts, were brilliant and look to be promotion contenders.

Clearly living up to your username. Cheltenham looked a reasonable side but no more than that. They were well organised and better at holding on to the ball but thats about it. Downsey was probably the man of the match and they look difficult to break down, but brilliant and promotion contenders??
You must have been at a different match to me....

[brucie]

You cannot write yesterdays performance off as "it happening to every team" or "a reality check" - that's utter nonsense. Cox didn't say that - it was an embarassment pure and simple.
Also I didn't hear any abuse aimed at the players at all.
As far as players go you can really only make a decision on whether you think they are any good or not by using your own eyes.
I've only seen Speiss twice - once when he played for BR against us when he was atrocious. He seemed to have had some good reports this year though - having seen him again yesterday though he was actually worse than he was the first time I saw him.
In my opinion he was directly responsible for three goals in those two games and compounded that by making countless other errors yesterday.
So from what I have seen so far he is no better than Rice (and I would actually say he is worse)
I have not seen anything of Lavercombe other tha a PSF at Tiverton - when he came on he was directly at fault for their equaliser so it may well be he isn't an improvement, however he doesn't lack confidence and is bigger than Speiss.

[wivelgull]

As far as players go you can really only make a decision on whether you think they are any good or not by using your own eyes.

Well said, brucie!

[Gloomy Gull]

We only had 10 men and they had 11 with Speiss.
Even the ref took pity and didn't send him off after conceding the penalty.
Bring back Lavercombe and give the defence some confidence of a goalie with ability.

How about this for an idea - we have a better organised defensive mentality from midfield to back line that would not leave the keeper so exposed!!!

Thought Spiess did OK given he was last man standing on a number of occasions.

I would have feared for Lavercombe as a young keeper being left out to dry as Spiess was. OK he missed the initial cross that led to Downesy's goal .....but so did about 4/5 defenders !!

[Burnhamgull]

Can we all just be a little careful how much we lambast Speiss and "big up" Lavercombe.

Both are young goalkeepers learning their trade and both will have poor games as well as great games. My concern is how, right now, everybody is suddenly writing Speiss off as not being good enough and pushing Lavercombe forward as being a saviour. What happens when he drops a clanger or two in one game and costs us victory????

I was disappointed yesterday by the performance but we have to keep our expectations in check. Let's not ruin a young mans confidence. I'm sure players read these threads as well as supporters.

[Lloyder5]

As far as players go you can really only make a decision on whether you think they are any good or not by using your own eyes.

Well said, brucie!

Good point Wivel, only judge players when you have see them perform

[tomogull]

Not much to add to what has already been posted really. I thought the sending off was harsh - the challenge was no worse than Smith's challenge very early in the game. A yellow card would have been sufficient. And I thought the penalty decision was harsh. Other than that, I felt the ref had a reasonable game. At least the sending off evened the sides up to 10 v 10. Heslop was completely off the pace the whole of the first half. His only real contribution was a shot off-target which alomst cleared the roof tops of the houses behind the Babbacombe end. He may prove to be a decent signing when he's fully match fit but quite honestly, Sam Chaney would have done a better job than he did. He was an obvious candidate to be replaced at half time. Nathan Smith had been booked so when Paul Cox decided to change the formation, he was the obvious choice to be substituted.

As for Speiss, perhaps I wasn't concentrating, but I don't recall him being left exposed apart from the second and third goals. The second goal was his fault because he cleared the ball straight to a Cheltenham player who said thanks very much as he sped past Exodus for an easy goal. The third goal, the dubious penalty, I think Angus had been instructed to play further up the field in an attempt to salvage something, leaving Exodus on his own at the back.

Yes, it was disappointing to lose 3 - 0 against 10 men but I think that's the sort of season we're going to have - some good results and some bad. We'll probably go to Eastleigh tomorrow and get a point. Some credit has to go to the Cheltenham 'keeper who held on to everything that came his way and Aaron Downes showed what a good player he is, and captain, when he's playing in front of a reliable 'keeper.

But spare a thought for Wivell. If he was at his home club, Whitby Town, yesterday, he would have seen a seven goal thriller. Unfortunately, the opposition, Stamford, scored five of them ....... leaky defence or poor 'keeper, Wivell ?

[ROADRUNNER]

easy to blame speiss, wouldnt blame him for any of the goals yesterday.we were poor all over the pitch, as said before we have to be patient, support our club. i will be donating to the player fund every month.

[Dazza]

Totally agree with you Roadrunner. We have to be very patient this year. We have confidence in this year's Management Team and we have therefore got to be careful not to undermine the players they are expressing confidence in. This is a very young team who we hope are capable of learning the game down here. The simple truth is therefore there will be occasions when they underperform. Yesterday was clearly one of them.

[lucy6lucy]

easy to blame speiss, wouldnt blame him for any of the goals yesterday.we were poor all over the pitch, as said before we have to be patient, support our club. i will be donating to the player fund every month.

Agree. Regarding funds raised, you seem to have inside information. Can you suggest the club tell us donators how much has been raised/donated so far out of common courtesy. I will admit £10 a month from me is not a great deal, but like many a combined total is what I would like to know.

[PL21gull]

It is not enough to say we had one bad day at the office and that bad mistakes led to conceding goals; it was our game plan which let us down. We lined up as 3-5-2, yes five in midfield and yet the only tactic in the first half for fully 40 minutes was to miss out the midfield by lumping the long ball and hoping to get someone on the end of it.
Exceptionally unprofessional when playing against 10 men from early on; as Cheltenham showed (and has had Woking previously) it is hardly rocket science to play organised possession football, and it was embarrassing watching how easily a team could play through us with basic passing/link-up/movement.
There was no leadership on the park, except from the tireless Courtney Richards, and no security at the back. And yet we have full-time coaches...
Let's see some real football rather than route one. And more variety on corners and crosses (there are two goalposts to attack, not just the far one).
And let's have a goalkeeper in whom the defence can have some faith; shot-stopping is not enough, a keeper has the best view of the match and should be able to dictate his defence by observation, anticipation, and confidence. Alas that is apparently lacking - lack of observation and anticipation of opposition movement, lack of confidence with high balls and through balls, and lack of composure and concentration when flapping before the penalty which was passed into the net next to him.
Cannot fault the effort of the players, but let's channel all that effort in a more controlling and productive fashion. Come on Team.

[Gullscorer]

Good point Wivel, only judge players when you have seen them perform

Brucie, by his own admission, has seen (using his own eyes) only one game this season: yesterday's (see previous page on this thread). Hardly a sufficient basis on which to form any kind of substantive judgement.

As for our goalkeeper Speiss, given more time, coaching, and experience, he may yet turn out to be a rather Speissial one..

[arcadia]

Not much to add to what has already been posted really. I thought the sending off was harsh - the challenge was no worse than Smith's challenge very early in the game. A yellow card would have been sufficient. And I thought the penalty decision was harsh. Other than that, I felt the ref had a reasonable game. At least the sending off evened the sides up to 10 v 10. Heslop was completely off the pace the whole of the first half. His only real contribution was a shot off-target which alomst cleared the roof tops of the houses behind the Babbacombe end. He may prove to be a decent signing when he's fully match fit but quite honestly, Sam Chaney would have done a better job than he did. He was an obvious candidate to be replaced at half time. Nathan Smith had been booked so when Paul Cox decided to change the formation, he was the obvious choice to be substituted.

As for Speiss, perhaps I wasn't concentrating, but I don't recall him being left exposed apart from the second and third goals. The second goal was his fault because he cleared the ball straight to a Cheltenham player who said thanks very much as he sped past Exodus for an easy goal. The third goal, the dubious penalty, I think Angus had been instructed to play further up the field in an attempt to salvage something, leaving Exodus on his own at the back.

Yes, it was disappointing to lose 3 - 0 against 10 men but I think that's the sort of season we're going to have - some good results and some bad. We'll probably go to Eastleigh tomorrow and get a point. Some credit has to go to the Cheltenham 'keeper who held on to everything that came his way and Aaron Downes showed what a good player he is, and captain, when he's playing in front of a reliable 'keeper.

But spare a thought for Wivell. If he was at his home club, Whitby Town, yesterday, he would have seen a seven goal thriller. Unfortunately, the opposition, Stamford, scored five of them ....... leaky defence or poor 'keeper, Wivell ?

You are right about Chaney he's a different class.

[Lloyder5]

Brucie, by his own admission, has seen (using his own eyes) only one game this season: yesterday's (see previous page on this thread). Hardly a sufficient basis on which to form any kind of substantive judgement.

As for our goalkeeper Speiss, given more time, coaching, and experience, he may yet turn out to be a rather Speissial one..

And Wivel hasn't seen a game