Great appointment.

[stefano]

Hector, Brucie, and Southampton Gull are all right! Our players are medicocre, our board (whom we all wish the best in such a difficult task) and our manager are novices, the football is atrocious, and even the most yellow rose tinted supporter must be struggling to see where we are ever going to get another point. It is so very easy when there are other attractions to find a reason not to go, and this is even easier for people who live a bit away. For me I enjoy rugby very much and as the World Cup is only every 4 years I would in any case have been following it even if we were top of the table. It only means missing a couple of home games, and I have done that in the past during the 6 Nations. With the football though being abysmal and the inevitably of a defeat obvious it does make such decisions easier.

Unfortunately what we need to survive is something that other clubs throughout the world fail to achieve. People consistently paying at the gate to watch awful football resulting in defeat week in and week out. It's certainly a difficult one, and I wish Mr Breed and Mr Phillips every success with it. I will be there again this season, but other attractions and activities I know will push themselves into my thoughts in a way that they would not if the football was entertaining, if it at least looked as though all of the players were trying, and if there was at least a chance that we would win the game!

[hector]

For me it isn't even the fact we lose every week. It is the extinguishing of the hope that this season would be the pit we go through for it to be better next year. But I have thought that every year since Ling went sick. I hoped the appointment of Knill would mean we wouldn't struggle against relegation. It didn't. It got worse.
I hoped relegation to the Conference would at least mean we would win more games than we lost and while it was a crap league, at least we would flirt with the play-offs. It didn't. It got even worse.
I hoped that with new owners, the cycle of decline would slow and that, whilst I knew we wouldn't get promoted, I hoped it would mean that at least we would be competitive. It didn't. It has got even worse and the appointment of a manager ill-equipped to reverse such a sharp decline and such downward momentum, is unfair on Nicholson and daft of the board and just confirms that things are likely to get a lot, lot worse.

This is the Conference for heaven's sake. We are one of the worst teams in a division where other clubs get crowds as low as 300. We are something like 14 points behind part-time teams like Braintree, with two wins all season. It's just embarrassing.

Every time I think it cannot get any worse, it does and I suspect there is worse to come. Perhaps next season when we are losing at home to Truro City or Chippenham Town (should they come up).

[brucie]

This is the point though. However little money we have or get how can we below teams who are getting 600 in attendances? Ok Forest Green have a chairman who is worth 90 million but that's the exception rather than the rule.
The crowds have held up remarkably well so far this year. On Tuesday we play Dover - a part time team who train twice a week and are 5th in the league. They currently have O'Archie and Ajala in their team and say what you like about these two - they would waltz into Torquays current eleven with their eyes closed.
As we train everyday of the week we should easily be able to compete with Dover but in reality we will get beaten again.
As Hector says it is embarrassing.
Nicholsons appointment is just plain daft as Hector says - it defies logic and with the chairman trotting out the same line saying that results will take care of themselves when the players start enjoying themselves. That's just abject nonsense and proves that those in charge have completely lost the plot.
Give it half a dozen games - Nico will be sacked and the board will appoint Sean Joyce or Martyn Rogers.

[Modgull]

This is the point though. However little money we have or get how can we below teams who are getting 600 in attendances? Ok Forest Green have a chairman who is worth 90 million but that's the exception rather than the rule.
The crowds have held up remarkably well so far this year. On Tuesday we play Dover - a part time team who train twice a week and are 5th in the league. They currently have O'Archie and Ajala in their team and say what you like about these two - they would waltz into Torquays current eleven with their eyes closed.
As we train everyday of the week we should easily be able to compete with Dover but in reality we will get beaten again.
As Hector says it is embarrassing.
Nicholsons appointment is just plain daft as Hector says - it defies logic and with the chairman trotting out the same line saying that results will take care of themselves when the players start enjoying themselves. That's just abject nonsense and proves that those in charge have completely lost the plot.
Give it half a dozen games - Nico will be sacked and the board will appoint Sean Joyce or Martyn Rogers.

No Terry, this is a managerial appointment which will stick, even if it means relegation to the Conference South. The Club can't afford any more payoffs and the players any more disruption.

I feel that this was the final throw of the dice from a Board who have done brilliantly to keep the Club going but who are willing to see us drop further rather than try to buy our way out of trouble in an unsustainable way. Its all very sad but somehow so predictable.

[tomogull]

If nothing else, Brucie has stimulated some good posts on this thread. I agree with many of the points that Brucie has made but I don't agree with his view on the Kevin Nicholson appointment. It isn't fair to condemn him after less than a week in the job. It's a brave appointment by the Board and whilst most of us would have gone for an experienced manager in our position, Nico knows very well what a mess the club is in and if he wants the job so much (he must be a bit of a masochist), let's give him a chance. It may not work - we won't know for a couple of months. On the other hand, it might work and in any case, Nico was probably about the only manager we could afford. It's interesting that John Milton and Eunan O'Kane have both come out and said they want to help Nicholson. I don't remember either of them offering to help Hargreaves. That must tell you something .......

One of the points that Brucie makes is our attendances compared with other clubs in the National league. Scaaning down yesterday's matches, we were the fourth highest gate behind Grimsby, Tranmere & Chester (who were involved in a derby match against Wrexham). Gateshead who would have gone 2nd if they'd beaten Dover had just 949. Woking 1510. It just goes to show what a financial mess Bill Phillips & co got this club into. We fans have GOT to stick with Nicholson and the club and hope we can survive this season. I know it's not looking good but there are still 32 games to go so let's not write off our chances just yet.

[Behind-the-Gulls]

Better attendance on Saturday than three teams in League Two as well-Accrington,Dagenham and Morecambe

[CP Gull]

For me it isn't even the fact we lose every week. It is the extinguishing of the hope that this season would be the pit we go through for it to be better next year. But I have thought that every year since Ling went sick. I hoped the appointment of Knill would mean we wouldn't struggle against relegation. It didn't. It got worse.
I hoped relegation to the Conference would at least mean we would win more games than we lost and while it was a crap league, at least we would flirt with the play-offs. It didn't. It got even worse.

It's interesting when you mention about what has happened "since Ling went sick" .... so I thought I would actually look at our home record since that day he failed to turn up for duty at St James Park.

We have played 62 games at home in the League (League 2 and National Premier) since then and covering a period of 2 years and 8 months we home fans have only gone home with that thrill of seeing a home win on just 18 occasions, we have though gone home feeling miserable after yet another home defeat on 27 occasions!!!!!

Little wonder then that some have given up and whilst our attendances do come in for some criticism on occasions, I actually think that an average of over 1800 fans turning up when our home form has been so abysmal for such a long period of time is a real CREDIT to those who still continue to attend despite the poor fayre on show.

When, over a period of more than two and a half years you know that on average you have considerably less than a 1 in 3 chance (it's actually a 29% chance - but getting worse by the minute!) of seeing your team win, even at this lowly level, then little wonder that some have given up.

I notice on the OS that the club are seeking volunteers to distribute leaflets to various local outlets - a complete waste of time, in my opinion, in the present climate. The club should focus more of it's efforts on trying to look after and retain what it's got than trying to attract new fans when the product on offer is so very poor. Far more important to try and stop haemorrhaging existing fans than look to find new ones who if they did find any would probably be put off for the rest of their lives when they see what is currently on offer! Far better to try and attract those "new" fans when we are at least playing half decent football and WINNING games.

As a footnote to the above, our away record, as you would expect is worse - but actually only slightly, with 17 wins on the road in 63 attempts (so 27% win rate) and 33 losses. Overall our league record over this period reads P 125 W 35 D 30 L 60 - so only a 28% win record - no wonder we have seen so many Managers (Taylor, Harrop, Ling, Knill, Hargreaves, Cox, Edwards, Ramshaw and now Nicholson) come and go with that sort of win ratio!!!!! A pretty atrocious record, particularly when you reflect on the fact that nearly half of those games (60) have been played when we have been out of the Football League and playing many, many teams who are far less well supported than we are, and in lots of cases part time outfits.

In other words, since Ling turned in sick we have pretty much gone through a period of over two and a half years whereby we lose every other game (currently stands at 48% loss ratio - but likely to continue to rise with the current squad!) .... it really is no wonder that some have "lost the faith"!!!!!

[nickbrod]

Those are pretty shocking statistics and should be pinned on the Board Room door. The Club in its current situation needs an experienced football person on and off the pitch to give leadership and direction.

[Yellows]

Those are pretty shocking statistics and should be pinned on the Board Room door. The Club in its current situation needs an experienced football person on and off the pitch to give leadership and direction.

You can shuffle the pack all you want but that fact of the matter is that you need to introduce Players that can win games NOW not in 4 weeks time NOW. The Shareholders must invest in their Company otherwise welcome to the Southern Premier League. The hardcore of Supporters will come to the Home games come what may others will when we start winning, FACT. INVEST! :rules: :rules: :rules:

Added in 3 minutes 26 seconds:

If nothing else, Brucie has stimulated some good posts on this thread. I agree with many of the points that Brucie has made but I don't agree with his view on the Kevin Nicholson appointment. It isn't fair to condemn him after less than a week in the job. It's a brave appointment by the Board and whilst most of us would have gone for an experienced manager in our position, Nico knows very well what a mess the club is in and if he wants the job so much (he must be a bit of a masochist), let's give him a chance. It may not work - we won't know for a couple of months. On the other hand, it might work and in any case, Nico was probably about the only manager we could afford. It's interesting that John Milton and Eunan O'Kane have both come out and said they want to help Nicholson. I don't remember either of them offering to help Hargreaves. That must tell you something .......

One of the points that Brucie makes is our attendances compared with other clubs in the National league. Scaaning down yesterday's matches, we were the fourth highest gate behind Grimsby, Tranmere & Chester (who were involved in a derby match against Wrexham). Gateshead who would have gone 2nd if they'd beaten Dover had just 949. Woking 1510. It just goes to show what a financial mess Bill Phillips & co got this club into. We fans have GOT to stick with Nicholson and the club and hope we can survive this season. I know it's not looking good but there are still 32 games to go so let's not write off our chances just yet.

Stop blaming Bill Phillips. The Board took the decision to restructure the Club not Bill Phillips. The Board need to man up and INVEST and NOW! :rules: :rules: :rules:

[DaveysBarTab]

You can shuffle the pack all you want but that fact of the matter is that you need to introduce Players that can win games NOW not in 4 weeks time NOW. The Shareholders must invest in their Company otherwise welcome to the Southern Premier League. The hardcore of Supporters will come to the Home games come what may others will when we start winning, FACT. INVEST! :rules: :rules: :rules:

Added in 3 minutes 26 seconds: Stop blaming Bill Phillips. The Board took the decision to restructure the Club not Bill Phillips. The Board need to man up and INVEST and NOW! :rules: :rules: :rules:

Bang on the money!

[Scott Brehaut]

What nonsense.

The Board didn't want to throw good money after bad, which is what the previous Board were doing (well Mrs Bristow anyway) and, rightly, restructured the club to ensure that it could operate within its means.

Investing in the club structure the way it was is what got us into this mess in the first place.

[SenorDingDong]

What nonsense.

The Board didn't want to throw good money after bad, which is what the previous Board were doing (well Mrs Bristow anyway) and, rightly, restructured the club to ensure that it could operate within its means.

Investing in the club structure the way it was is what got us into this mess in the first place.

While I don't agree with Yell's agenda, it's totally pointless to run the club at a slight profit or break even if we get relegated to the Conference South. Our crowds will collapse further, we can't go part time due to the regional economy and the club will die. It'd be rank stupidity to run a small profit and be left with a dead club.

It'd be far better for the club to go into debt to survive this season and then pay it off by ambition restricted mid season campaigns in the next two years, which we should be able to achieve with a hopefully increased budget once our financial liabilities are off the club books. Given our attendances there should be no trouble whatsoever in putting mid table squads in any season other than this.

If we're never able to repay the debt and kill the club...well it won't be any different to the alternative of being relegated into Conference South and killing the club anyway because that's the seriousness of the situation currently.

[Yellows]

What nonsense.

The Board didn't want to throw good money after bad, which is what the previous Board were doing (well Mrs Bristow anyway) and, rightly, restructured the club to ensure that it could operate within its means.

Investing in the club structure the way it was is what got us into this mess in the first place.

Now that's a bit unfair on the Mrs Bristow and the Board. Mrs Bristow spent her money and then in turn wiped of her Loan leaving the Club with a good Balance sheet, that was her prerogative. A restructure needed to happen but it takes time and has to be handle very carefully. What has happened is that Deano has gone in wielding the axe with the Board approval and made some very costly decisions. We all know what has happened since. We are told that the Board has not spent any of the original investment so now is the time to use it and invest in New Players. Standing back and waiting for a miracle to happen is not an option neither is waiting for the attendances to increase on match day. Winning Team = More Bums on seats. Ending up in the Southern League will be a disaster, getting back up to the League will be an impossibility unless you are prepared in invest thousands. We must stay in this league at all cost. :rules: :rules: :rules:

Added in 2 minutes 15 seconds:

While I don't agree with Yell's agenda, it's totally pointless to run the club at a slight profit or break even if we get relegated to the Conference South. Our crowds will collapse further, we can't go part time due to the regional economy and the club will die. It'd be rank stupidity to run a small profit and be left with a dead club.

It'd be far better for the club to go into debt to survive this season and then pay it off by ambition restricted mid season campaigns in the next two years, which we should be able to achieve with a hopefully increased budget once our financial liabilities are off the club books. Given our attendances there should be no trouble whatsoever in putting mid table squads in any season other than this.

If we're never able to repay the debt and kill the club...well it won't be any different to the alternative of being relegated into Conference South and killing the club anyway because that's the seriousness of the situation currently.

No Agenda here just plain talking. It might hurt some but if it for the good and the Club progresses so be it

[nickbrod]

Relegation to National South = no meaningful TUFC.

[Dazza]

There seems to be a statement or presumption on here that Nationwide South means we have to go part time. It maybe a financial reality but can anyone advise me whether it is fact a league ruling? I am not sure it could be?