New Stadium-The Willows

Dazza · Post by **Dazza** » 03 Feb 2016, 22:10

I am pro full investigation of this.

However were those autumn burblings from Mushroom and Co about this or something else?

At the same time even if the two things were about this I don't blame the board for approaching this carefully. They have had a lot to do and rushing at this ( and it is still only a possibility ) was clearly not the right thing to do having just picked up the reins. It seems to me they have played this one pretty well.

chunkygull · Post by **chunkygull** » 03 Feb 2016, 22:15

SenorDingDong I think you are right, from what I gather Teignmouth tends to be a more Exeter fan base.

This could be very good news today or it could be a pipe dream with a plan full of more holes than our teams defence, however it is great that the club are exploring their options and looking to the future.

I dont know anything about this mooted site at the Willows but regards to being an old dumping ground full of gases, drainage problems and whatever else it strikes me as having similarities with the Clennon Valley field site right where I grew up. The team used to train there a lot especially pre season and on the astro when built. Rumours often went around among the Clennon locals and sometimes the Plainmoor faithful how TUFC were looking to relocate and have a new Stadium at Clennon Valley, especially early on in the Bateson era, a few residents informed me it had been on the cards since the sixties, it even got so ramped up at one point some locals were starting to get up a protest commitee, my Mum still mentions it now (they'd better bleddy not), Dad would be chuffed though (sod the property values eh). Anyway, apparently the whole thing was scuppered because Clennon Valley had been a dumping ground, full of gases etc, poor drainage and unsuitable to build on, sound familiar?

To be honest, ideas of moving away from Plainmoor have never surprised me, indeed it might be a good thing for the future of the club to herald a new era, viable revenue streams, a fit for purpose pitch and attracting a new fan base.

I am a bit surprised by the choice of possible area though as surely the roads into the Willows can get very busy and tailbacked at weekends especially and you are going from one residential area to another, I know you are coming in off a dual carriageway or main road but I always felt the best site we could move to would have been up on the ring road just off shiphay where the Monday Markets always were, lots of open land, hardly used by the looks of it, no residents to upset, straight in off the dual carriageway, plenty of scope to have parking, a few shops etc, could run some buses up there. Yes I know its green fields etc but there is loads of it and there is usually just a few cows and not much else, how much bloody fields do we need down here?

tomogull · Post by **tomogull** » 03 Feb 2016, 22:29

Jack wrote:Tomogull there is an aerial photograph on the Herald Express link in one of the early postings.
I suspect that it is the old Barton Valley tip. I remember in the early seventies that Torbay Council spread a lot of topsoil on it, marked out some flat pitches and thought that they would be the best council owned pitches. Unfortunately broken glass and tin quickly came up to the surface and the pitches had to be abandoned.

Ah yes - that was it. I'd forgotten the football pitches. There was controversy about the proposed housing on the site so instead the Council created super-duper football pitches but then glass, stone, tin, shopping trolleys came to the surface and the pitches were abandoned. Thanks for that info Jack. (Sorry for duplicated posting - bliddy computer being difficult !!)

gateman49 · Post by **gateman49** » 03 Feb 2016, 22:29

Yes, I am long enough in the tooth to remember Clennon Valley being mooted but it's at or below sea level and regularly floods.

I remember the failure of the Barton tip area due to broken glass etc. I still go running to exercise myself (and my dog) and I've run across the tip areas a few times (I'm a Barton boy) and guess what, drainage there is abysmal. Not only that, there are gas vents everywhere as there are, I assume, a lot of chemical reactions going on not far from the surface.

Plainmoor isn't quite the highest ground in the country but it's a long way above sea level so bad drainage ought not to play any part in arguments to leave the place. Anyway, we have the promise of getting that sorted in the not too distant future.

absolutely3rdrate · Post by **absolutely3rdrate** » 03 Feb 2016, 22:46

I wouldn't trust Torbay Council to give me the right time of day, never mind move the football club into a new stadium. Look what's happened, or rather not happened, with Oldway Mansion where the developer is taking them to court. They can't make a decision on the future of the pavilion. I hope I'm wrong, but If anyone really thinks this is going to be a smooth ride they will be in for a shock.

midtable · Post by **midtable** » 04 Feb 2016, 01:10

A free stadium hosting 10,000 supporters costs a lot. Truro FC have already produced the figures relating to the cost. A feasibility study organised by Truro council recommended a 10,000 seat stadium will cost between £14 million and £24 million. See http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-cornwall-12691859) . Now we could not afford to pay Paul Cox more than expenses but someone is willing to give us a huge sum for free. Of course, the developing company will only go ahead if the council offer it enough cheap land to build and thus at a bargain price to cover the minimum 14 million required. The reason for getting TUFC involved is to put pressure on the council by hoping TUFC supporters will blindly support the building plans due to the free stadium. If the council says no then the developers will say the council members don't care about TUFC etc.
Realistically, it is unlikely to happen but I am happy to keep my fingers crossed.

gullpower · Post by **gullpower** » 04 Feb 2016, 08:25

Shouldn't someone be giving this gift horse a good long hard look in the mouth?

The recent history of Torbay is littered with self promoting entrepreneurs who have turned up offering pie in the sky schemes while paying themselves shed loads of other people's money, only to disappear later leaving broken promises and with a fat wallet.

If something looks too good to be true, it usually is!

wodger of awabia · Post by **wodger of awabia** » 04 Feb 2016, 08:56

?????? Well I wonder if the land that interests the Septics (Septic Tanks) (Yanks) is the Stoodley Knowle School site, 65 acres overlooking the sea & Ilsham Valley, a few million bucks would buy the land from the nuns, & development permission from the Council would enable housing from £500k to say £2m. to be constructed. This would be a nice little earner, & certainly worth spending a few million on a football stadium. ??????

Jerry · Post by **Jerry** » 04 Feb 2016, 09:17

5 pages of everyone saying exactly the same thing and thinking they are delivering some sort of earth shattering revelation.

I'm sure the club hadn't realised that this needs to be looked at carefully and were just about to merrily hand the keys of Plainmoor over to those lovely generous Americans!

Luckily they may just have been saved from this dreadful error by the quick thinking folk of internet land who have pointed out that just maybe there may be a tiny possibility that it isn't that simple.

So just to reiterate (in case you missed it the umpteen other times it's been posted): If it looks too good to be true, it probably is. :na:

lucy6lucy · Post by **lucy6lucy** » 04 Feb 2016, 09:33

My big concern from a Torquay football team prospective is that the pitch is going to be 4g. Does this not mean we have no ambition to get back into the football league, or if we do is there a clause that if we do, the 4g gets replaced with grass.

northlondongull · Post by **northlondongull** » 04 Feb 2016, 10:32

My initial thoughts were that a new stadium would be unnecessary as the state of the ground is probably one of the few areas that the club can claim to triumph in at this stage. There are however certainly benefits to a new stadium which are worth investigating further and there are new and important income streams to be explored. As a few others have mentioned the devil will be in the detail with this one.

I would have thought that the land with development potential which the developer desires is the land surrounding the proposed new ground in the Willows and I would not be surprised if Quinta was part of the deal. Plainmoor is designated for sports use and could easily be turned into a facility for Westlands School which would leave their current playing fields at Quinta up for development.

It is by no means uncommon for developers to seek to trade off land with a local authority and it could be the case that the American company is simply being pragmatic. Torbay Council as well as virtually every other local authority in the country is under pressure to deliver housing and Torquay United are under pressure to deliver additional income streams. It is crucial that the club considers the detail of the deal for the proposed stadium move and it would not be satisfactory for the club to end up paying extortionate rent or to be in a position where any of the income streams from the new ground do not go directly to the club. I am sure that they will be astute enough to do so but I hope that the board instructs a strong legal team to consider the deal. TUST could also be a key player is such an important decision for the club and I was a little miffed that they were not consulted by the board before the announcement was made yesterday.

As for the proposed size of the stadium: 6000 with room to grow will probably suffice for now. I can however remember several occasions with Plainmoor being full or near full in the past 15-20 years. A good example was the run in for Leroyâ€™s promotion team in 2003/04. Following the Yeovil game (which was a sell-out) I do not think that the gates dropped below 5500! But granted that was exceptional and the gates were still never much over 6000.

The 4G element is interesting. My feeling is that this technology will be in the football league in the near future. With the current state of affairs I cannot see the club getting back into the league for some time anyway.

I assume that we will hear more of this over the coming weeksâ€¦

Parry · Post by **Parry** » 04 Feb 2016, 11:04

This is a great opportunity to move the singers back behind the goal like in the days of the mini stand. Im all for it if theres no sinister T&Cs.

Post by **Dave** » 04 Feb 2016, 11:06

Got to get away from the small minded yocal thinking here. You and I don't need to be brain surgeons to know, that nothing gets built, not new roads, hospitals anything without private finance being involved, what's in it for any of them ?

Jeez, of course our club and the council will check the fine detail before this gets the go ahead, there's a lot of talking and thinking to be done yet. But why would the council just say no to this, when it will be a massive benefit for them to get the club out of the town and down to the willows, also helping TUFC back on to it's feet bringing a higher profile to the club and bigger away supporter numbers is a benefit to the area.

This private investment company builds the club a new ground, in return, and as said above all councils are currently under pressure to build more houses and affordable housing, the investment company gets land, and brings investment and brings re-generation to the area, it becomes a win, win.

If there a bunch of con merchants, the truth will out, and this will not happen.

Jut to add, as so many have said and there right, the opportunities for the club to drive much greater commercial income into the club are endless with a new ground, opportunities that do not exist at Plainmoor, heck the club could even increase it's income from the car park, have a reserved area where the club could sell parking season tickets, other spaces £1 or £2 per match say, I'd pay it.

tomogull · Post by **tomogull** » 04 Feb 2016, 11:32

wodger of awabia wrote:?????? Well I wonder if the land that interests the Septics (Septic Tanks) (Yanks) is the Stoodley Knowle School site, 65 acres overlooking the sea & Ilsham Valley, a few million bucks would buy the land from the nuns, & development permission from the Council would enable housing from £500k to say £2m. to be constructed. This would be a nice little earner, & certainly worth spending a few million on a football stadium. ??????

Much surmise on here of course but this is an interesting concept as it was reported in this week's Herald Depress that the Stoodley Knowle site is to go on the market for development. The Quinta playing field is, I believe, Council land and rented by Westlands School. So that could be a quid-per-quo deal although the bucks earned from houses on the Quinta site would nowhere match des res on the Stoodley Knowle site. I'd still feel more confident about this proposal if it was a British company involved instead of those from across the water ...............

ROADRUNNER · Post by **ROADRUNNER** » 04 Feb 2016, 11:33

This can only be good for the club and the town, 6,000 capcity is ok but feel with a slightly bigger one say 8,000 that give more potential for music concerts and also cup matches if we drew say arsenal or man utd, etc.
all we need to go with it is a decent team.

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