New Stadium-The Willows

eddyh · Post by **eddyh** » 05 Feb 2016, 21:18

Everybody says they are not racist, I guess this means nobody is then

Gullscorer · Post by **Gullscorer** » 05 Feb 2016, 21:51

stefano wrote: It was a statement not a conversation and I did not mention anything about it being light hearted although you may have implied that rightly or wrongly by the style of smiley at the end. Your choice of smiley on the other hand portrays a grumpy sod who likes to read the company health and safety policy before going to bed each night. Each to their own.

You got one thing right: I am a grumpy sod..

jonny5 · Post by **jonny5** » 05 Feb 2016, 23:10

ferrarilover wrote:I once described a black bloke as 'black' on here and was roundly lambasted as a horrendous racist. The reaction to a little light jibing does not surprise me.

Disappointing to see more people with Small Picture Syndrome.

Matt.

You used the expression 'black b#stard'... even a wilfully ignorant geek like yourself must know that to be unacceptable.

I am delighted to be back to keep an eye on your pompous hot air. Noticed a recent attempt on your part to pontificate about the use of apostrophes... I think we both know that that is hardly your strongest suit...

ferrarilover · Post by **ferrarilover** » 06 Feb 2016, 01:02

Ahahahahaha, my boyfriend's back.

Almost typed a reply, but then realised it would only take up your carer's valuable time in reading it to you while you dribbled down your bib.

Matt.

Torq38 · Post by **Torq38** » 06 Feb 2016, 02:32

ferrarilover wrote:Ahahahahaha, my boyfriend's back.

Almost typed a reply, but then realised it would only take up your carer's valuable time in reading it to you while you dribbled down your bib.

Matt.

You were clearly either bullied relentlessly at school, or you're 5"2 tall.

Be honest, which one is it? You can tell us...

chestertorkyman · Post by **chestertorkyman** » 06 Feb 2016, 19:35

Have not read all this thread, which has now gone off-topic, but big thanks to Jack for highlighting the disreputable past of this John Mitchell. The Americans must be told that no talks proceed with his involvement in any capacity. Believe me its not easy to get banned from being a company director, and his record seems to be centred on financial irregularities at football clubs. Which also proves that the American developers have not conducted adequate due diligence on their UK agent - big black mark.

So, initially, the Council and TUFC must talk to other UK developers first to ascertain general feasibility and encourage any UK developers. Who built the facilities at Burton, Tranmere, and other clubs with new grounds? Actively talk to these clubs and their partners.
Only when feasibility is established do we get into what the plans may look like. It so happens that I think TUFC needs a 7000 capacity to cope with cup matches or play-offs. I think the pitch should be grass - investigate whether this site is well-drained, if so there is no need for 4G. But there is an urgent need for a 4G training pitch and all-weather 5-a-side pitches with floods, for hire when not in club use. Then a gym and preferably a pool to speed recovery from injuries - they can be shared with the public. Once you add in plenty of car parking, I cannot see how the outlined area can also take housing, restaurants etc.

Overall, its disappointing that the current situation shows TUFC diving into a relationship with a dodgy agent, considering a foreign developer rather than a UK based firm, and talking about a specific "wish-list" or offer of specific facilities before they have conducted any feasibility or due diligence. All after the history of chancers like Roberts just wanting to make money. That will all take time, so why the rush?? Beware those who are pushing and focus on the needs of TUFC now and future (higher division). So far this episode has been completely Ass about face, one might say.
This should be a background process of investigation, sounding out, careful costing and due diligence of all parties. This must not deviate the club from concentrating on survival and progress in this league, and Plainmoor is fine for a few years yet.

Burnhamgull · Post by **Burnhamgull** » 06 Feb 2016, 21:10

chestertorkyman wrote:Have not read all this thread, which has now gone off-topic, but big thanks to Jack for highlighting the disreputable past of this John Mitchell. The Americans must be told that no talks proceed with his involvement in any capacity. Believe me its not easy to get banned from being a company director, and his record seems to be centred on financial irregularities at football clubs. Which also proves that the American developers have not conducted adequate due diligence on their UK agent - big black mark.

So, initially, the Council and TUFC must talk to other UK developers first to ascertain general feasibility and encourage any UK developers. Who built the facilities at Burton, Tranmere, and other clubs with new grounds? Actively talk to these clubs and their partners.
Only when feasibility is established do we get into what the plans may look like. It so happens that I think TUFC needs a 7000 capacity to cope with cup matches or play-offs. I think the pitch should be grass - investigate whether this site is well-drained, if so there is no need for 4G. But there is an urgent need for a 4G training pitch and all-weather 5-a-side pitches with floods, for hire when not in club use. Then a gym and preferably a pool to speed recovery from injuries - they can be shared with the public. Once you add in plenty of car parking, I cannot see how the outlined area can also take housing, restaurants etc.

Overall, its disappointing that the current situation shows TUFC diving into a relationship with a dodgy agent, considering a foreign developer rather than a UK based firm, and talking about a specific "wish-list" or offer of specific facilities before they have conducted any feasibility or due diligence. All after the history of chancers like Roberts just wanting to make money. That will all take time, so why the rush?? Beware those who are pushing and focus on the needs of TUFC now and future (higher division). So far this episode has been completely Ass about face, one might say.
This should be a background process of investigation, sounding out, careful costing and due diligence of all parties. This must not deviate the club from concentrating on survival and progress in this league, and Plainmoor is fine for a few years yet.

Totally agree with this. What's the rush? Plainmoor is perfectly fine for now and we should be concentrating on improving our status on the pitch before we consider building new stadia etc.

As I've said on previous threads, you could offer free entry to Plainmoor for any home game and you still wouldn't fill the ground, so why build a 10,000 seat stadium? Until the club reaches a higher level of football, people will not flock to watch them. Shiny bricks will only attract people once then they'll watch us play and never go again.

Let's give this idea a wide berth until we're pushing for promotion to League 1.

taxilady · Post by **taxilady** » 06 Feb 2016, 21:18

Don't think for one moment that the Council (who have to find building sites for all the houses in the Local Plan) or the developers (whatever nationality they are) will wait one second for 'l'il ole Torkey (I can do it too!) to be ready for their move. All signed (in their minds) already, we're just pawns in a greater scheme(called money-making). They don't want a bigger stadium for the Yellow Army, dafties, they (the people who pull strings); they want one for the concerts etc. We're just a small part of a bigger picture, whether it suits us or not. See you all down at the Riviera Stadium then ? (whenever.....)

Kernowgull · Post by **Kernowgull** » 06 Feb 2016, 21:24

Burnhamgull wrote:

Totally agree with this. What's the rush? Plainmoor is perfectly fine for now and we should be concentrating on improving our status on the pitch before we consider building new stadia etc.

As I've said on previous threads, you could offer free entry to Plainmoor for any home game and you still wouldn't fill the ground, so why build a 10,000 seat stadium? Until the club reaches a higher level of football, people will not flock to watch them. Shiny bricks will only attract people once then they'll watch us play and never go again.

Let's give this idea a wide berth until we're pushing for promotion to League 1.

But don't you get it? As things stand we will never be pushing for promotion to League One, or even league two, again, as we don't make any money. It might not happen, but A new stadium, with the right revenue generating facilities, may give us that chance again in the future.

Glostergull · Post by **Glostergull** » 06 Feb 2016, 22:34

Hold your horses people. I have posted warnings before and not been far wrong.
Jonh Mitchell along with other directors was banned from Holding any directorship for 3 years at least. (that can be lengthened at HM discretion) in 2009 following an investigation into financial irregularities while a director of Luton Town. her Majs inspector of taxes or Hitlers henchmen as i call them. launched an investigation after financial dealings involving NI and PAYE. his directorship of Business Golf Corporation was wound up as he and other directors were fined £250 for not reporting them to The Inspector of Taxes. (who i assume is still Herr Flick) note the name of the company involved. Now I going to see if i can do a little digging. The name of the company sounds very American to me and I suspect he may have other dealings in the USA. If he has i will find out if anything untoward features.

tomogull · Post by **tomogull** » 07 Feb 2016, 01:05

You have to ask - what reputable company would employ someone as their UK agent who has been banned from holding a directorship, involved with another company wound up following financial irregularities and is involved in a very dodgy looking scheme (see Jack's earlier posting) with wide-boy (allegedly) Terry Venables.

As someone else posted several pages back, legal eagles for Torbay Council and Torquay United will be well aware of all this and hopefully scrutinise any proposals very, very carefully. It is to be hoped that both the Council and TUFC Board members have barge poles handy because they might prove to be invaluable ........

torq2u · Post by **torq2u** » 07 Feb 2016, 11:00

tomogull wrote: legal eagles for Torquay United will be well aware of all this and hopefully scrutinise any proposals very, very carefully.

Yeah, like they did when Chris Roberts tried unsuccessfully to but the club. Oh, hang on, wait a minute ....

Added in 1 minute 39 seconds:
buy (doh)

Post by **Dave** » 07 Feb 2016, 11:14

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear. The club was owned by Mike Bateson at that time, the ownership of the club has changed hands twice since then, and is now clearly being run by very different people.

This whole stadium proposal does "not" just involve TUFC it also involves Torbay council as well, neither TUFC nor Torbay council are being offered "something for nothing here" both parties are being offered a new stadium in return for building land.

If this is a huge con, the club, the council, will both scrutinise what's on offer and the truth will out.

gateman49 · Post by **gateman49** » 07 Feb 2016, 12:22

Forever, regarding your last paragraph, I wouldn't give the Council that much credit.

It's not just Oldway or the Pavilion that they are letting go to ruin. Remember the farce of the helium balloon on the sea front. My understanding is that they frightened off the trustees of the Cary estate who tried to protect the land and then let some cowboy company set up that monstrosity, did they ever get any rent paid?

Jack · Post by **Jack** » 07 Feb 2016, 12:44

The murky waters are clearing - I am beginning to understand what is wanted and what is on offer.
The Company want to build on Plainmoor so need to relocate the Club and then purchase the land from the Council which holds the freehold.
We are being offered a minimalist stadium of 6000 capacity which will meet football league standards. It won't be particularly accessible because there are only two main ways out of the Willows, Newton Road and Barton Hill Road? The rest of the package is perhaps negotiable but whether the Club has exclusive use or has to allocate some community time is unclear.
Don't hold your breath on the ground being used for pop concerts etc, there are too many stadia in this country chasing too few acts who can fill them. The catchment population is also too small. Most stadia have several million people living within an hours travel.
Finally remember that not all new stadiums have been a resounding success. Wycombe have had financial problems and Nene Park which was home to Rushden and Diamonds is about to be demolished. Neither R & D or Kettering Town were able to survive there.

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