Takeover of the club at an advanced stage

Jerry · Post by **Jerry** » 31 Mar 2016, 11:13

All of which applies whether there is a takeover in the offing or not.

But no we mustn't raise any doubts about it in case it "distracts" the players!

We should all just tug our forelocks and let the masters decide the fate of our club without daring to have an opinion on it.

Neal · Post by **Neal** » 31 Mar 2016, 12:10

Kit_robin wrote:Yes the "companies owned by companies" thing is pretty standard and nothing in itself to worry about. Agree

Just need to know their motivation. Surely they are in it for money at some point, so they have to be up front and honest about how they plan to achieve that whilst still maintaining a successful football club. E.g., if they said "our plan is to do a deal with the council to relocate Torquay United, allowing it to increase its revenue streams and become self sufficient, meanwhile we will build houses and make a load of coin in the side" then I will say fine, provided you don't use football club money to do it.

If they're cagey, give only altruistic reasons for owning us I would struggle to believe them and worry for the future.

Motivation is the key as suggested here. But there is nothing of value with TUFC. Absolutely NOTHING! The current board as we were to believe were running it at break even with 1800 average gates, Ok fell a bit short of that. IF and its a big IF they really do invest at least for the first season that would eat into any future profits. The only thing I can think of is, that the idea would be to mortgage the club up for a new ground and then make the money with housing and entertainment, retail etc. But that will take years. AND ALSO REDUCE INVESTMENT FOR THOSE YEARS to break even. As in my previous POST the gamble they are taking is stupid IF they think TUFC is a leverage to this new development, I think its a negative for the new development. Just go ahead without the club.

Of course the question I ask myself is why would you EVER want to own a Football club UNLESS its one of the top 5 or 6. That's why I have respect for the current board because its a no win situation unless you pump in loads of money, and they havnt got it, which ISNT their fault.

Personally, I don't want to move from Plainmoor, I would rather watch Ryman League at Plainmoor with say TUST as owners rather than move to some other part of south Devon watching say Conf std under some new company ownership. So either these guys are really stupid, or its a big gamble to get over all the problems I noted earlier.

kevgull · Post by **kevgull** » 31 Mar 2016, 13:19

With the squad supposedly on peanuts, why not ask the new buyers to put up a " stay up " bonus?

£500 each should help towards a piss up in the sun!

ROADRUNNER · Post by **ROADRUNNER** » 31 Mar 2016, 13:35

one thing is for sure the current board cannot keep this club afloat thats for sure , and i would rather not see the club in the ryman league, as i see it this is an opputunity to get this club back to the football league and if we have to move stadiums what does that matter many have done it already and many more will follow, im sorry but we cannot carry on the way we are going and if this is the best offer we are going to get then i say lets go for it! . as for tust they havent got the money either.

Post by **MidDevon** » 31 Mar 2016, 14:37

Just some food for thought as everyone goes on about crowds all the time on this thread

1800 people, paying on average £15 (by the time you have taken concessions and season tickets into account) generates just £27,000 per league game, take VAT off and it comes down to £12.50 a person or £22,500

23 games , on budget would only generate £517,000

I believe this is why the league wanted a bond of £250,000 set up by the directors when they took over, because simply when the costs of running the club for the season was calculated, even with the cut backs we were that short.

I suspect (just myself suspects) that the initial investment from each director has yet to be touched as it essentially made up that bond.....and that simply as roadrunner agrees previously is why the board cannot afford to keep the club going into a new season

Jerry · Post by **Jerry** » 31 Mar 2016, 15:07

MidDevon wrote:Just some food for thought as everyone goes on about crowds all the time on this thread

1800 people, paying on average £15 (by the time you have taken concessions and season tickets into account) generates just £27,000 per league game, take VAT off and it comes down to £12.50 a person or £22,500

23 games , on budget would only generate £517,000

I believe this is why the league wanted a bond of £250,000 set up by the directors when they took over, because simply when the costs of running the club for the season was calculated, even with the cut backs we were that short.

I suspect (just myself suspects) that the initial investment from each director has yet to be touched as it essentially made up that bond.....and that simply as roadrunner agrees previously is why the board cannot afford to keep the club going into a new season

Now I'm confused.

You say that the league asked the directors for a bond to cover the budget shortfall, but then state that this money hasn't been touched. Surely if we were £250,000 short then this money would now have had to have been dipped into to cover it? How have we been paying the bills otherwise?

Post by **MidDevon** » 31 Mar 2016, 15:14

no a fair question, the league certainly asked the club to prove they had the money to see the club through the season, I am not sure how it works, but I assume it is "ring fenced" in an account that the Conference league have visibility of. A sort of bond.

arcadia · Post by **arcadia** » 31 Mar 2016, 15:50

BobBobBob wrote: I feel like this is a little too simplistic. A key difference in football is everyone is on a short fixed-term contract so "laid off" in that context will often mean that contract has ended and will not be renewed. Being "unsettled" doesn't mean that the players will stop doing their job, they'll still turn up to train, and they'll still kick a ball around for 90 minutes once or twice a week and try to put on a performance. In pure football terms, "unsettled" may affect things like whether a player will dig up something special in those 90 minutes, whether they play as a team or as individuals, and whether the tension might stop them trying the ambitious at critical moments. That's important because football can be boiled down to moments of genius, inspiration and/or luck. Our recent 1-0 win at home to Southport ultimately came down a to a few seconds in the match. Toby Ajala used a burst of skill to control the ball and open up some space to put a neat ball into the path of Dan Butler, who hammered a terrific quick, low cross in the box, which eluded the otherwise resolute Southport defenders and landed perfectly at the feet of Nathan Blissett who kept his composure just enough to guide the ball into the net. You could argue that the Southport defender who missed the cross failed to "do his job" but that would be unfair. And maybe if he had intercepted the cross and we don't win that match, you could then argue that Butler or Blissett failed to "do his job". But again that would be unfair. And we won't talk about the other 89 minutes and 57 seconds of football in that match, ever again. The point here is that football success and failure comes down to split-seconds in a match. People make mistakes. People make amazing decisions. Football players will do both many times in a single match. Look at how James Hurst scored two brilliant goals at Kidderminster back in September, and in the very same match gave away a silly penalty with seconds remaining to deny us the win.

It's Wembley 2009 and Chris Hargreaves bursts through the Cambridge defence. Maybe he wouldn't normally smash the ball with his unfavoured right-foot. Maybe he'd hit it first time with his left and watch as it deflects out for a corner. Some instinct kicked it at that precise moment for him to hit an unstoppable shot and score an amazing goal. "Team spirit" is a big thing in all this. We were a free-scoring promotion-chasing team with the promise of a good future should we come out on top that day. The motivation to try something and not worry about the consequences was at a real high. Today, we're a low-scoring, relegation-threatened team and goodness knows what could happen to us should we suffer relegation. Even players "doing their job" will be that extra bit cautious about taking chances, nervous about making a match-losing mistake. These guys are all playing for a career and it's a difficult balancing act at the best of times as to how they should perform. By "how they should perform" I mean the small decisions in the blink of an eye where the fans erupt in a roar of excitement or groan in despair. And it's the tiniest difference, a slightly over-hit pass or an inch-perfect pass. My favourite player is Courtney Richards, he likes to try that quick ball through the middle, sometimes it comes off and sometimes it doesn't. When it does, he's a genius. When it doesn't, he's an idiot. But regardless of the outcome, the bloke is clearly trying his best.

There's going to be hundreds of names hoping to get a trial at a football club like Torquay United in three months. I think every single one of our players (aside from a couple of loanees) are out of contract next season and will very likely find themselves on that list of names if they do not get a contract offer from us.

The above is just the norm. Add to the mix the talk of a club takeover and all of a sudden you might be impressing the wrong man. It might not matter if you're ambitious or if you're cautious, if you take chances or if you play it safe, if you play as an individual or as part of a team. Kevin Nicholson thinks you're great and will have you back next season in a heartbeat, but Geoff Harrop thinks you're too small, Paul Hart thinks you are too big, Paul Sturrock doesn't want to play with defensive midfielders at all, Steve Tully just plain doesn't like you and Louis Van Gaal feels like he could find a Dutch youngster who is a tiny bit better than you. Regardless of how much you contribute in these next seven games, you will be on the long list of players without a club in June and have to start all over again.

You just saved me from posting.

Burnhamgull · Post by **Burnhamgull** » 31 Mar 2016, 20:18

kevgull wrote:With the squad supposedly on peanuts, why not ask the new buyers to put up a " stay up " bonus?

£500 each should help towards a piss up in the sun!

Is this bonus for the players or those of us who have endured the season so far? I'd happily accept £500 for a piss up in the sun, or buy a ST for somewhere else next season :~D

Glostergull · Post by **Glostergull** » 31 Mar 2016, 21:50

sorry if i have confused you SG. I have seen what this company did when ROVERS were basicly given a huge rent rise or told to vacate Eastville and given a payout which was in no way enough to compensate for the loss of a home. it was pitiful but given that the lease was up what could they do.. all the money spent on making sure the ground was up to standard each year wasted. and we ended up putting a lot more than the compensation money into TWerton..
Basicaly Im worroied that With only 2 directors running this company there is likely to be a confilct of interest. if Osborne is not available the other Director will have to run things and already being a director of Newcastle which is likely to be in trouble as Ashlys money is running out. will this affect his decisions. will being a Newcastle Director mean he is not allowed to have an dealings with us. I would doubt that would be workable. someone would have to run Stadia uK. and what would happen if Newcastle went into receivership.. how much is Gaming Int Tied up with them. or even Tolken Ltd. and with the way holding companies can then start up another company which then owns yet another company to distance itself from dodgy deals and claim its not their fault.. what happens when one of the companies goes under but the parent one doesnt. Its called Plausilble deniably.
As I said, I have seen how Bristol Stadiums worked and stadia UK are a direct descendant. Im less than confiident.. I remain to be proved wrong. But I have this awful feeling Im not.
of Course I could be saving up to Join the Wivel and Briucie fan club.!

MellowYellow · Post by **MellowYellow** » 31 Mar 2016, 22:43

Whilst being overtly critically of the way the club has been run over the last few years, I am somewhat optimistic about this takeover. Gaming International Ltd does currently run low budget sport stadia with greyhound racing and speedway. If the American deal goes through I can see a new stadium being the home for Torquay Utd as well as a facility for running greyhound racing and speedway during weekdays and alternative Saturdays ( the companys present stadia currently hosts Swindon Robins and Poole Pirates). I have no issue with the above as a company who run small sports events needs to utlize a stadium 7 days a week to maximise profits. I think it is the only way small clubs like Torquay Utd can survive.

So what name for the new Torquay Speedway Team?.

SenorDingDong · Post by **SenorDingDong** » 31 Mar 2016, 23:37

Speedway is hardly a popular sport and greyhound racing is dead. Both sports had local facilities in recent memory, Exeter Falcons at the Count Ground and greyhound racing at Newton Abbot. Since both ended about a decade ago there's barely been a peep about them being missed or an attempt at a resurrection.

If they're looking to run speedway and greyhounds at Torquay, which I rather doubt, they're barking up the wrong tree. Live music events (well promoted) would do far better if they're looking for ancillary revenues but the Willows location may come with some sticky issues regarding the local residential population.

MellowYellow · Post by **MellowYellow** » 01 Apr 2016, 10:43

SenorDingDong wrote:Speedway is hardly a popular sport and greyhound racing is dead. .

And Conference/Southern League football is alive and kicking? I take your point, but remind that British Speedway as a sport is no way dead and has currently a five year deal with Sky Sports, which we all know equals big bucks. As for attendence's Poole Speedway which is hosted by Stadia UK is held every Wednesday evening between March and October and regularly attracts crowds of 3000-4000, not bad for a borough population of 147,645 people. I'm not alert to the state of Greyhound racing but again this can be found on Sky TV. I am sure Stadia UK will look a music concerts in addition to the above. As I stated a good company will maximise revenue from a new stadium, 7 days a week.

PhilGull · Post by **PhilGull** » 01 Apr 2016, 11:12

MellowYellow wrote: And Conference/Southern League football is alive and kicking? I take your point, but remind that British Speedway as a sport is no way dead and has currently a five year deal with Sky Sports, which we all know equals big bucks. As for attendence's Poole Speedway which is hosted by Stadia UK is held every Wednesday evening between March and October and regularly attracts crowds of 3000-4000, not bad for a borough population of 147,645 people. I'm not alert to the state of Greyhound racing but again this can be found on Sky TV. I am sure Stadia UK will look a music concerts in addition to the above. As I stated a good company will maximise revenue from a new stadium, 7 days a week.

With the noteabe exception of football Skysports seems to equate to a last hurrah for most sports. A big windfall of cash but by the time it is all spent the powers that be realise too late that no one is actually watching their sport anymore, it's not getting any coverage in or on freely available media and no one really cares about it.
Greyhound racing is certainly dead in and around London with all the tracks gone or going. Speedway seems to have a hardcore of fans still turning up but I don't see the sport doing anything to attract new fans.

As for this group buying our club, I am reserving judgement but so far, although I will remain alert to what they are up to I do not see any big alarm bells.
Nearly all Premier League clubs and a large portion of Football League clubs have owners who bought them with the primary aim of making money - I see this as no different. So long as the club progresses in line with their bank accounts then I wont be too unhappy.

MF68 · Post by **MF68** » 01 Apr 2016, 11:54

Philgull

Im afraid Dog racing is not dying in London at all, but I take your point that locally there is no need for it. "Flapping" tracks were closed in Newton Abbot, Exeter and St Austell in the last 15 years through lack of support.

However Music/Pop concerts is a complete non-starter around here. The population, and in particular make up of that population, will never support "headline acts"

The Club is almost being held hostage by this takeover and it remains highly concerning.

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