Ched Evans

[Glostergull]

https://hat4uk.wordpress.com/2015/01/07 ... eam-media/

Having heard the news tonight i came onto this forum interested to see what we as Gulls fans think.
Daves post rings an alarm bell with me because of a line at the end of the piece and news that people have been threatened. Now with the best will in the world.Ched Evens is a brainless twit with a rather narcissistic behavior pattern. he seems to want to live at the bottom of the sewer in his attitudes and behavior to society. and not least to his Girlfriend.
I would issue a warning to her. If his behavior is any indication of how he will treat you. I would reconsider being married to one who's morals rely on lessons by sewer rats.
But there in lies a problem. we have cast him out. he has served a prison sentence which will follow him for the rest of his life. and he will find elements of that will haunt him for a very long time. even if he is eventually found to be innocent through the review.
But if he is to remain in the annuls of evil in our minds. what of those who have also stooped to levels that are at the very least as low as his own standards
if your going to hang out to dry a man for standards you consider too low for inclusion in society. should your own standards be of higher. To allow people who have issued death threats against the daughter of a director of Oldham Athletic to go free would be a huge miscarriage of justice in its own right.No Person should be allowed to get away with that. We see football managers suffer this sort of treatment meted out to managers and indeed chairmen through nothing more evil than not getting the results that the fans want to see. witness our own so called fans treatment of Mike Bateson in the 90's and early 2000's. Normal behavior for society. I think not.
Are we witnessing a society who talks about justice but means Nazi style jackboot style behavior to make sure their own agenda is followed. No wonder I want to emigrate sometimes.

[Dave]

If he was a bricklayer. Sorry I keep hearing this nonsense, if he were a health care or teaching professional, a home carer, worked with children out side a school environment or with vulnerable adults, a rape conviction would prevent him from returning to his pervious career , in fact, do you know what, he can't even work as a Taxi driver with a rape conviction, but he isn't a bloody bricklayer is he, he is a professional footballer, and it comes with privilege and responsibility.

I work with 17/18 year old footballers every week, most of them have been released from a professional academy at some point in their junior careers, I talk them and their parents who would gladly give their right arm for their sons to have achieved their dream, and young players who got so close to football, who would do anything to have career in football, seriously, I think the likes of Evan's and other players should be sat in room with these lads and then they might realise just how privileged and lucky they are.

This isn't about jealousy, what a ridiculous statement, it has nothing to do with the PC brigade. It's about fair minded decent people wanting footballers and the footballing industry to clean up it's act. It just shows how sick society is, when a victim of rape can be subjected to such dogs abuse online, to be fair Ched Evan's has distanced himself from that, but this is a good reason why football most clean itself up, as whilst the majority of fans are decent people, there are some still out there who are not.

Arrogance led to the downfall of Ched Evan's. He had two very different choices to make that night, one would have left him to continue his career with Sheff.U and no doubt he'd be a premiership player by now, but he didn't take that option, he put himself where he is today, no else did it, Ched Evan's needs to take a long hard look at himself.

I fully accept Ched Evan's maintains his innocence, he has perfect right to do that. As it stands however, Ched Evan's is a convicted rapist, who's never accepted his guilt, never shown any remorse, and until today not even bothered to show an once of humility (half baked apology issued) would he have shown any humility if Sheff.U or Oldham signed, would he heck.

But as said, if Ched Evan's had even half a brain, and I'm not sure this is the case, he would lay low until any appeal is heard, if his conviction is overturned, he no longer has a problem, if however if it isn't, he needs to have long hard think about his future, which may need to be away from football.

It's not about taking the moral high ground, or being morale hypocrite, we've all made mistakes, I know I have, but there are mistakes, and well, urm 'mistakes' it's all about personal decisions and the way you live your life. If the whole Ched Evan's affair leads to other young players learning lessons, then at least some good has come from it.

The position Ched Evan's finds himself in today is self made, he deserves no sympathy.

[Gullscorer]

https://hat4uk.wordpress.com/2015/01/07 ... eam-media/

That's a brilliant article by John Ward. It covers all the points (and more) raised in this thread, and it should be required reading (half a dozen times) by everyone on this forum, plus Judge Merfyn Hughes, and all those on the Criminal Cases Review Commission.

[Southampton Gull]

I knew you'd find that interesting. It contains several points that have always left me feeling uncomfortable with the verdict. Whatever the rights and wrongs, he didn't kill anyone so having served the sentence handed to him he should be able to return to earning a living. If Luke McCormick can get back to doing so and Lee Hughes too then so should Evans.

[Gullscorer]

Arrogance led to the downfall of Ched Evan's. He had two very different choices to make that night, one would have left him to continue his career with Sheff.U and no doubt he'd be a premiership player by now, but he didn't take that option, he put himself where he is today, no else did it, Ched Evan's needs to take a long hard look at himself.
I fully accept Ched Evan's maintains his innocence, he has perfect right to do that. As it stands however, Ched Evan's is a convicted rapist, who's never accepted his guilt, never shown any remorse, and until today not even bothered to show an once of humility (half baked apology issued) would he have shown any humility if Sheff.U or Oldham signed, would he heck.
But as said, if Ched Evan's had even half a brain, and I'm not sure this is the case, he would lay low until any appeal is heard, if his conviction is overturned, he no longer has a problem, if however if it isn't, he needs to have long hard think about his future, which may need to be away from football.
It's not about taking the moral high ground, or being morale hypocrite, we've all made mistakes, I know I have, but there are mistakes, and well, urm 'mistakes' it's all about personal decisions and the way you live your life. If the whole Ched Evan's affair leads to other young players learning lessons, then at least some good has come from it.
The position Ched Evan's finds himself in today is self made, he deserves no sympathy.

Forever, miscarriages of justice do occur, and innocent people are convicted. And being innocent, why should they accept an incorrect verdict? And why should they apologise for a crime they did not commit?

Ched Evans has been convicted, though he may or may not be actually guilty. Certainly there are serious doubts as to the safety of his conviction. He may be an arrogant idiotic stupid unintelligent low life undeserving of sympathy. But he does not deserve a miscarriage of justice. Nobody does. Even if he's guilty, the law sets out the required punishment, not the lynch mob, and not the on-line petitioners.

"If the whole Ched Evan's affair leads to other young players learning lessons, then at least some good has come from it." Really? At what price? This reminds me of American footballer Treon Harris, falsely accused by a young woman who later admitted she was lying. A comment was made that it was a “learning experience” for him. Nobody thought to say the young woman needed to be taught a lesson.

I sometimes despair.

[Dave]

Forever, miscarriages of justice do occur, and innocent people are convicted. And being innocent, why should they accept an incorrect verdict? And why should they apologise for a crime they did not commit?

Ched Evans may or may not be guilty. Certainly there are serious doubts as to the safety of his conviction. He may be an arrogant idiotic stupid unintelligent low life undeserving of sympathy. But he does not deserve a miscarriage of justice. Nobody does. Even if he's guilty, the law sets out the required punishment, not the lynch mob, and not the on-line petitioners.

"If the whole Ched Evan's affair leads to other young players learning lessons, then at least some good has come from it."

Really? At what price? This reminds me of American footballer Treon Harris, falsely accused by a young woman who later admitted she was lying. A comment was made that it was a “learning experience” for him.

I sometimes despair.

I totally agree G/S miscarriages of justice do occur. Where do I say in any of my posts that I think Evan's is guilty ? I do not say it anywhere, because it is possible he isn't guilty. By tying this case to that of Treon Harris suggests that you are assuming Ched Evan's has been the victim of a false accuser, dangerous assumption to make, Evan's might also be guilty, as said above we're are in the land of technicalities here, as whether the actions of Ched Evan's constituted rape or not, whether rape or not the girl in this case has been taken advantage of in my opinion and a victim full stop.

I, also said, I accept Evan's maintains his innocence, of course he shouldn't apologise for the rape, not asking him to that at this time because that would be an admission of guilt. The serious point I was making seemingly missed by all, was Evan's should have come out of prison and kept himself out of the public eye until his appeal was heard, if his conviction is over turned, he has no case to answer nothing to apologise in terms of the rape.

The other serious point I'm making, what if his conviction is upheld, he, for the rest his life will be a convicted rapist, and he will have a big decision to make, if he continues to protest his innocence in that situation there will no way he can return to professional football, he's some what backed into a corner.

Why I said there were lesson for other footballers to learn here, was nothing about rape, it was about not putting your self in harms way, if ched Evans had taken the decision not to go to that hotel on the night in question and get involved in a dodgy situation, his life would have taken a very different turn, that's the lesson.

[Dave]

I knew you'd find that interesting. It contains several points that have always left me feeling uncomfortable with the verdict. Whatever the rights and wrongs, he didn't kill anyone so having served the sentence handed to him he should be able to return to earning a living. If Luke McCormick can get back to doing so and Lee Hughes too then so should Evans.

Totally agree, but it's difficult one. I do not mind admitting on this open forum that as an 18 year old lad I served a community service punishment for some very petty teenage disorder, I'm not trying to be hypocrite in any of this, I was given a second chance took with both hands now fast approaching my 46th birthday, I look back with confidence that I more than made good for my wrong doings.

It taught me that everyone deserves a second chance, but this is where it is difficult. Not suggesting in anyway McCormick should be forgiven, taking the life of two children whilst driven drunk is about as bad as it gets, but McCormick accepted his guilt right from the start, unlike Hughes, McCormick has shown remorse and I believe it's genuine, he, I believe has also donated a part of his wages to charity and gives his time to children's charities free, he can never ever put back everything he took out of society, at least he trying.

Evan's also deserves a second chance, but as he maintains his innocence he can't show remorse, so this I believe is going to be problem, unless his conviction is over turned, he's going to have to show remorse and try to put things right, over wise I don't see a way back for him.

[Neal]

https://hat4uk.wordpress.com/2015/01/07 ... eam-media/

My gut feeling is that he is Innocent. There is a morale hierarchy developing in this country from people who are supposed to be the elite, and in fact are gutter scum! Politicians, media moguls, journalists, civil service, judges, lawyers, who have ripped us off for years AND have a history of sexual depravity. They love this kind of thing, string up a working class lad because he earns more money than them. And keeps the spotlight off them. Disgusting!!!

[Gullscorer]

Evans has now won his appeal against conviction. Obviously the appeal court had such serious concerns regarding a miscarriage of justice that it felt it had no other option. But he must now face a new trial.

And when we talk of justice in this case, we must remember that he is not being tried for being a stupid idiot, which he is, but of a serious crime in which evidence points to a more than reasonable doubt as to his guilt.

Hopefully, even in today's crazy politically correct world, where politicians, police, CPS, and judiciary are heavily influenced by extreme ideologues and social justice warriors, the new judge and jury will ensure that justice will prevail.

But I wouldn't bet on it..

[Glostergull]

So his appeal has been upheld. Will he face a retrial as mentioned in Gullscorers post. I'm not sure having not seen much news about it yet. but if so it's now dragging on to the point that his career is fast becoming a thing of the past and i doubt whether he will return to high profile career like he had before because he has lost so many years since he last kicked a ball in anger. ahh yes he will face another trial. if that too finds him not guilty then where does he stand regards the loss of his career, because like it not, sewer rat though he has behaved, he won't be able to make up for all those lost years. could be claim compensation. and who from. No good sueing the girl. She won't have that sort of money. Would he be able to sue the Justice system for wrongful imprisonment. Possibly but would his erswhile beahviour predudice any outcome. He might have a little time in football but it what level. He's 27 going on 28. when eventualy his new trial is heard he could be 30, most players are winding down at that age and they have played for years so are at the best condition for their age.He hasn't played since 2012 so has had 4 years out already. by the time of the new trial being over if found not guilty he will have been out of football for near 5 1/2 years. Will he be able to come back to any sort of decent standard of football after that length of time out. I doubt it. he might if he is lucky get in a conference pre team or league two even. but not league 1 or championship. and certainly not Premier. and as for international appearances. well he really missed the boat there. the one time in my life that Wales qualify for a major Tournament and he missed it through his own stupidity. we make choices and have to bear the consequences, but what a consequence he has had to endure if at the end of it he is found not Guilty.
Finally. when retried will he, can he possibly now have a fair trial. he has been pilloried by the press in many quarters. disowned by most football clubs and the common man/woman has had a bellyful of his innocence/guilt thrown at them with bias reporting/innuendo. So what can he expect if tried before a jury. a possibility of a kangaroo court? This will be the most important part of his case. Not how he presents it but whether the jury will be biased already.
to end I think it's also worthwhile mentioning that now this is before a judge and jury again we have to be careful of what we say and print. or we could be in contempt of court.

[Gullscorer]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-36099522

[Gullscorer]

The re-trial is under way, and the jury will eventually give their verdict. The appeal judges declared it was 'in the interests of justice' to order a re-trial, but the reasons for their decision were never made known on the BBC or in other media.

At this stage I have nothing to add to comments made in previous posts on this thread. However, there is an interesting look at the background to such trials here: http://herbertpurdy.com/?p=2295

[Gullscorer]

Ched Evans has been unanimously cleared of rape after two hours deliberation by the jury of 7 women and 5 men following his re-trial. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-37659009

I have no admiration at all for his sexual antics, but they were no worse than those of the young woman involved. Video evidence clearly showed she was not incapacitated, and the case should never have come to court.

He should now sue the slut for falsely accusing him (which, by going along with the authorities' witch hunt, was in effect what she did), and the police and CPS for withholding evidence and following the feminist political agenda. She, of course, will get lifelong anonymity, unless she is convicted of perverting the course of justice with a knowingly false accusation, which is unlikely in this case.

Perhaps those who thoughtlessly rushed to judgement should now pause to reflect.

[Alpine Joe]

gullscorer

and the police and CPS for withholding evidence and following the feminist political agenda.

It's surely revealing that even immediately after Ched Evans has been found not guilty and the claims of his accuser discredited, to note who the CPS decide to praise:

However, the jury cleared Mr Evans of the single charge after retiring to deliberate at about 11:40 GMT on Friday.
The Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) said it respected the jury's decision and thanked the complainant for her "courage" in giving evidence.


Should making up malicious and unjustified rape claims, resulting in innocent people being jailed for years really be classified as courageous behaviour by the authorities ? In previous times probably not, but this is politically correct 2016.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-37659009

[Gulliball]

It was perhaps inevitable, but I think the next few days are going to be quite unpleasant. The case has been horrible enough for long enough now to not begin to pick apart the victim now that there has been a 'not guilty' verdict.

If you want someone to blame then Ched Evans is still target number one for me. It was Ched Evans who booked the hotel room in advance, had his mate text him when he had "got a girl", lied to get into the hotel room, had his brother and friend outside filming the exact room at exact time, and had his exit pre-planned out the fire escape and away.

That's before you look at his police interview, in which he admitted that he and Clayton McDonald had had threesomes with women before - "It's not a normal thing but in the situation we're in, stuff like that does happen because girls like it. They have got two footballers there."

And his belief that he "could have had any girl" they wanted in the bar in Rhyl. "Footballers are rich, they have got money and that's what girls like".

It's his sense of entitlement that's got him into trouble. He pre-planned this and set it up. He didn't talk to the woman he had sex with before, during or afterwards. His friend said "can my mate join in?" and that's enough to get 'consent' for all of the above.

This isn't two drunk people have sex and the man is accused of rape, this isn't just something that could have happened to anyone in the street, this isn't a precedent that's going to help any man in the future, so I'm really struggling to see why there is glee at this verdict. I really hope it's just ignorance of the case, or just more more generally ignorance, that not guilty doesn't mean that she lied, made this up or should now be jailed (as our own Jamie Reid just published on twitter).

The legal definition of rape is something for politicians, judges, lawyers etc to argue over, but that doesn't excuse any of the behaviours involved. You wouldn't teach your son to pick up women in this manner, and you'd probably want to kill anyone who did that to your daughter.

If you want to take anything positive away from this, it should hopefully be that impressionable young people might think more about what qualifies as consent. Although based on the immediate twitter response it looks like it will actually be people taking sides without thinking at all.