Money Money Money

Wellswood · Post by **Wellswood** » 28 Apr 2016, 12:36

so maybe i'm misinformed or confused in some way, I thought Gaming International are a Stadia Management company, running speedway tracks and MK Bowl, creating multiple revenue streams and profit from these locations, redeveloping or improving these stadiums where possible, is this not the case?

Plainmoor78 · Post by **Plainmoor78** » 29 Apr 2016, 02:38

Wellswood wrote:so maybe i'm misinformed or confused in some way, I thought Gaming International are a Stadia Management company, running speedway tracks and MK Bowl, creating multiple revenue streams and profit from these locations, redeveloping or improving these stadiums where possible, is this not the case?

This point seems to be conveniently forgotten by a lot people who prefer scaremongering to rational debate. From what I understand they run Poole speedway and have made infrastructure improvements to the stadium despite the land on which it stands belonging to the local council, as is the case with Plainmoor. One of Dave Phillips recent comments seem to suggest they want to add a football club to their portfolio. If they are intent on destroying Torquay United why have they indicated that they want to resurrect the academy?

Neal · Post by **Neal** » 29 Apr 2016, 06:47

It wasn't me who suggested they wanted to build houses, I was replying to another post who suggested that. And anyway my view doesn't change because IF they just want to manage the stadium that tufc use then there are 2 options, they make other revenue streams, actually similar to what MB did. Or they make the rent higher which would be paid for by who? Ah yes lower wages for the players and us fans.

Perhaps they want to introduce speedway to torquay? That would be great wouldn't it, sat or stood miles from the pitch.

Lets see what the actual playing budget is, £400k doesn't seem enough to me considering what it cost us last time to get out of this league.

Wellswood · Post by **Wellswood** » 29 Apr 2016, 11:39

"It wasn't me who suggested they wanted to build houses, I was replying to another post who suggested that. And anyway my view doesn't change because IF they just want to manage the stadium that tufc use then there are 2 options, they make other revenue streams, actually similar to what MB did. Or they make the rent higher which would be paid for by who? Ah yes lower wages for the players and us fans.

Perhaps they want to introduce speedway to torquay? That would be great wouldn't it, sat or stood miles from the pitch.

Lets see what the actual playing budget is, £400k doesn't seem enough to me considering what it cost us last time to get out of this league."

- If they only want to manage the stadium, why would they buy the club?
- I don't understand your point on rent, if Gaming International own the club, what is the point in charging the club higher rent. Isn't that a bit like
me charging myself for cleaning my own car?
- Yes I agree they probably want a football club in their portfolio so they can turn it into a speedway club, as speedway would be really popular in a
new housing estate (new stadium) or even better at Plainmoor. I think there may be easier ways to establish speedway than buying a football
club, no?
- £400K, sounds like a step in the right direction to me. No I have a better idea, lets club together as fans and buy the club for £1 and see if we can
muster an £800K budget for the season. (if someone bought you a new Ford Focus, would you moan because it wasn't a BMW?)

Richinns · Post by **Richinns** » 29 Apr 2016, 12:23

Apologies if tis has already been mentioned somewhere which I missed but what was the budget for last year? Seem to remember it was £300k?

portugull · Post by **portugull** » 29 Apr 2016, 13:56

Welllswood, I started this thread because since David Phillips made his statement on the 30 March it is obvious that Gaming International Ltd (GIL) have been conducting their due diligence but I felt, in the interests of good communication, a further more detailed statement from the Chairman or GIL would help fans who have little or no knowledge of GIL and in particular their Directors.

I have ascertained that the company under various names has in fact been trading since 1932. The company and various other companies including Swindon Speedway Ltd and Stadia UK Reading Ltd together with at least 3 property companies are all part of the holding company Toklon Ltd which was incorporated in 2004. The 3 property companies do not appear to be engaged in house building but in dealing with the groups own properties.

GIL is currently building a new stadium in Swindon, to replace the existing stadium, for greyhound racing and speedway which is due to be completed in July this year.

Thee seems no doubt that this company has considerable experience in their field and although I would be very sad to see the end of Plainmoor, particularly because I regard Bristows Bench as a big asset, I do accept that the infrastructure (very poor toilets and catering facilities to name but 2) would addressed in a brand new stadium and that a location like the Willows with proper parking facilities does have its merits.

The bottom line is that unfortunately professional football clubs do not have a good track record in doing deals with developers. I think therefore all I can say is that the sooner we get a clear indication of GIL`s plans for the future the better but once the deal is signed and sealed the football club will be in their control and we must therefore rely on the current Board to ensure that all the issues have been addressed to protect the club and its fans in the future.

This will be a complex matter and I will be very surprised if we are in a new stadium in under 3 years. Only time will tell but I do hope we will hear something definitive very soon.

Jeff · Post by **Jeff** » 29 Apr 2016, 15:35

I'm a little surprised that people are expecting some kind of massive budget hike? Regardless of who these people are coming in and what their motives are, they have at least got to try and sustain a business. This season, we budgeted for 1800 crowds to break even and have achieved that but nothing more (aside from the bumper crowd vs Barrow). It wouldn't make sound business sense to budget for significantly more than that.

If Richinns is correct and our budget this season was £300k, then £400k is at least a step in the right direction!

Neal · Post by **Neal** » 29 Apr 2016, 19:01

You obviously don't know how Business works. in my company every dept is a customer of the other, so everything is a cost.

Ask Portsmouth. You spilt the ownership so the ground is owned separately and you charge rent.

Gee do I really have to explain everything, the football club and the speedway could both locate in the same stadia. And that would be crap.

Well you just tip yer cap, and believe everything anyone tells you. Guess you supported Roberts then.

If its an increase in the playing budget I will concede this point, but its not confirmed yet.

But why do they want a football club, it doesn't make sense UNLESS there is an ulterior motive. Maybe these non Torquay fans just want to be charitable to us Torquay fans, yeah right! In the end its US the fans who will be ripped off, and possibly the Council who are desperate these days.

I have no time for money grabbers, none at all. I want to k now their REAL motive and to be honest, IF they ARE honest I would be more inclined to support them. BUT I doubt they will be.

Post by **happytorq** » 03 May 2016, 15:08

I don't understand the problem with the owners being "in it for the money" - we seemed to scared of the notion of the owners making some cash out of the club. Gone are the days when one wealthy owner can bankroll a club's success; there's an upper limit to what "wealthy" can do now, and we saw even with Paul and Thea Bristow's money that having a few extra quid lying around is not a guarantee of success.

A company looking to leverage the ownership of a football club into other revenue is not, by itself, a Bad Thing. A new stadium is presumably on the cards because the best way to make money from a football club is not through football itself (nobody makes money from football unless they're getting millions from Sky) but from the ancillary services a new site can offer. Entertainment, conferencing, that sort of thing. And Plainmoor is not fit for that purpose regardless of the history of the place.

A smallish stadium that's easy to get to (especially with the new Kingskerswell bypass) makes perfect sense for a club in a position like ours. There would most likely be a small boost in attendance ( for both novelty and convenience reasons) but suddenly you open up all of the other potential revenue streams as well, ones which we're not in a position to capitalise on at the current ground.

It makes sense to have a healthy scepticism, but as long as the fans do what they can to question and challenge the new owners, I don't think it's automatically something to be fearful of. Indeed, one of the questions for Gaming International should be "would additional revenue streams and more profit mean more investment in the footballing side" and if the answer is yes, then the other stuff is no big deal.

Kit_robin · Post by **Kit_robin** » 03 May 2016, 16:15

happytorq wrote:I don't understand the problem with the owners being "in it for the money" - we seemed to scared of the notion of the owners making some cash out of the club. Gone are the days when one wealthy owner can bankroll a club's success; there's an upper limit to what "wealthy" can do now, and we saw even with Paul and Thea Bristow's money that having a few extra quid lying around is not a guarantee of success.

A company looking to leverage the ownership of a football club into other revenue is not, by itself, a Bad Thing. A new stadium is presumably on the cards because the best way to make money from a football club is not through football itself (nobody makes money from football unless they're getting millions from Sky) but from the ancillary services a new site can offer. Entertainment, conferencing, that sort of thing. And Plainmoor is not fit for that purpose regardless of the history of the place.

A smallish stadium that's easy to get to (especially with the new Kingskerswell bypass) makes perfect sense for a club in a position like ours. There would most likely be a small boost in attendance ( for both novelty and convenience reasons) but suddenly you open up all of the other potential revenue streams as well, ones which we're not in a position to capitalise on at the current ground.

It makes sense to have a healthy scepticism, but as long as the fans do what they can to question and challenge the new owners, I don't think it's automatically something to be fearful of. Indeed, one of the questions for Gaming International should be "would additional revenue streams and more profit mean more investment in the footballing side" and if the answer is yes, then the other stuff is no big deal.

An excellent post that sums up my feelings on the matter pretty well.

For me, this is where TUSTs idea of a "critical friend" comes to the fore. Being able to ask good questions if the new owners in a professional and consistent way on behalf of its members, therefore providing an outlet for the new owners to get their message across, whilst giving fans confidence that things are moving in the right direction. If at any point the answers received are unsatisfactory then the supporters will then be the first to know.

Would be nice to be able to question them, politely, in person at a forum however. I wonder if there would be enough interest in the new ownership to warrant a forum a la Keith Richardson at the RIC?

kevgull · Post by **kevgull** » 03 May 2016, 17:03

Jeff wrote:I'm a little surprised that people are expecting some kind of massive budget hike? Regardless of who these people are coming in and what their motives are, they have at least got to try and sustain a business. This season, we budgeted for 1800 crowds to break even and have achieved that but nothing more (aside from the bumper crowd vs Barrow). It wouldn't make sound business sense to budget for significantly more than that.

If Richinns is correct and our budget this season was £300k, then £400k is at least a step in the right direction!

It had been mentioned that a considerable amount of last seasons players budget was used in order to payoff CH,LH,and DE. Hearsay tells me it was close to 20% of last seasons players budget. Goes to show how important it is to get the right backroom staff in place for next season, as it might save us a fist full of cash.

Personally if Harrop were to get the job, like every other new manager I have always given them 10 ish games (plus pre season friendlies) before reaching any lasting conclusions. If Harrop does the business, that's great, if not, I would be verbally disgruntled post match.

However, should KN be appointed and the season not start too well, I would allow him at least 20 ish games and possibly past the Jan transfer window, as he has earned my respect as a manager. Believe me that was not a view I took back at the end of January!

As long as the budget, what ever that might be, is competitive for our league, the key will be to spend it wisely. Hard working, honest and respectful personal attributes do not always have to come with big price tags.

Neal · Post by **Neal** » 03 May 2016, 19:43

Well lets see if your saying this in 5 years time.

And IF its not the case and they are not in it for the money, you can publicly remind me and say "I told you so"

You may be right that a new stadium will bring in NEW revenue streams, do you really think this will end up in the pockets of the football club or the owners, come on, do you really believe that!

Look I don't know the motives of these people, and Im waiting for the all important answer, WHY do you want to own a football club, and WHY Torquay Utd? There might be a completely satisfactory answer to those questions, but no one on here has thought of one and I definitely cannot.

Post by **happytorq** » 03 May 2016, 20:38

Neal wrote:Well lets see if your saying this in 5 years time.

And IF its not the case and they are not in it for the money, you can publicly remind me and say "I told you so"

You may be right that a new stadium will bring in NEW revenue streams, do you really think this will end up in the pockets of the football club or the owners, come on, do you really believe that!

Look I don't know the motives of these people, and Im waiting for the all important answer, WHY do you want to own a football club, and WHY Torquay Utd? There might be a completely satisfactory answer to those questions, but no one on here has thought of one and I definitely cannot.

That's the entire point of what I was saying - I'm sure GI will take money from those additional revenue as 'profit' but i did also say we'd want to know if any of those profits would be funnelled towards TUFC.

It's probably about diversification; I believe GI has interests in greyhounds and speedway, and it's never a wise business move to put all your eggs in one basket. Torquay (or the southwest in general) also expands the geographical footprint of their business interests.

As I said in the earlier post, the owners wanting to make a profit is not automatically a bad thing, and the club is never to move forward and improve if we reject every potential investment out of hand. There are so few angel investors - people who want to buy a club just because they're fans - that it's not realistic to expect another one to show up.

hector · Post by **hector** » 03 May 2016, 22:33

I have a feeling that we will be a kind of Coventry at the Ricoh.

Post by **Scott Brehaut** » 03 May 2016, 23:14

Those on here that are worried about the intentions of the new owners....are they the same ones that were weary of the current owners, the same ones that were convinced we were relegated and the same ones that thought that Nico was the wrong choice for manager?

Hindsight is a beautiful thing, but let's all just wait and see regarding the new owners.

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