Money Money Money

Gullscorer · Post by **Gullscorer** » 03 May 2016, 23:36

Where were Bournemouth five years ago? The population base for their club is not a lot more than ours. So why should we not aim for some kind of progress over the next five years?

As for the new owners, the question was posed on the Aldershot forum: why would Gaming International Ltd be interested in investing in Torquay United (rather than Aldershot)? And one answer, in addition to Torquay's location on the English Riviera, a new stadium and various income streams, was: a casino? Sydney Opera House? The Hanging Gardens of Babylon? Herds of wildebeeste sweeping majestically.........

Basil!!

Oh Fer Christ Sake · Post by **Oh Fer Christ Sake** » 04 May 2016, 12:49

Neal wrote:Well lets see if your saying this in 5 years time.

And IF its not the case and they are not in it for the money, you can publicly remind me and say "I told you so"

You may be right that a new stadium will bring in NEW revenue streams, do you really think this will end up in the pockets of the football club or the owners, come on, do you really believe that!

Look I don't know the motives of these people, and Im waiting for the all important answer, WHY do you want to own a football club, and WHY Torquay Utd? There might be a completely satisfactory answer to those questions, but no one on here has thought of one and I definitely cannot.

Of course they're in it for the money. We're not being taken over by Mother Theresa, we're being taken over by a business. Businesses (us, theirs, Tesco, Virgin, Google, Apple, Mrs Miggin's Pie Shoppe, the lot) are in it for the money. No one starts a business with the intention of being poor and having no money.

The key issue here isn't whether or not the new owners are hoping to profit from their association with us, that is a question we all know the answer to. The really pertinent point is whether the new owners may profit from their tie up with our club and enjoy the benefits of their efforts... WITHOUT harming the club in the process.

I'm no business guru (none of us is, it's FAR too complicated for any one person to actually understand in its entirety), but it seems plausible to me that the new owners could:

Buy the club
Run the club on and off the pitch in a manner which sees us stay in operation and enjoy mediocrity at best, a series of three consecutive 12th placed finishes in the Conference.
Meanwhile, build a new ground with 4g pitches, bars, a cinema, conferencing facilities, an ice rink, a bowling alley, a Frankie and Beanies concession, a Mercedes dealership etc etc etc.
The club moves in 2019 or 2020 into this new ground and enjoys the benefits of what it brings (never missing training, increased crowds, increased popularity, parking, large and well stocked bars in the vicinity, good club shop etc)
The owners (Mick Bobbins, or whatever his name is) buys a Caribbean island and retires there with suitcases full of money and a sexy blonde girl.

The disgusting lefties among our membership will cry foul. Apparently it's not allowed for anyone to have anything nice. However, the right thinking members will almost certainly see the common sense of this approach.

This isn't a zero sum game. Our loss isn't GI's win and nor is their loss our win. We can all come out of this in a better position and, from my perspective, that's actually the easiest way for GI to achieve their obvious goal of making a shit load of cash.

Neal · Post by **Neal** » 04 May 2016, 13:00

That last post made me raw with laughter, complete b8llox. Well they aint making money out of me. Roberts tried that and look what happened to the team.

"WITHOUT harming the club in the process". Well lets see shall we! I will remember this post

Me a "Disgusting Leftie", now that was funny. if you knew me I am nothing but that, quite the opposite. Voted Conservative all me life, AND not a shy one either! Like many were during Blairs reign! VOTE OUT!

Oh Fer Christ Sake · Post by **Oh Fer Christ Sake** » 04 May 2016, 13:43

I see why you'd think it was, but my last post wasn't aimed at you specifically, Neal.

If it's bollocks, please explain why.

Why "ain't they makin' money out of you"? What's your problem with a business offering goods or services in exchange for money? You do realise that every owner that TUFC has ever had has sought to make money from you and, if you've ever been to the ground on match day, had a programme or a pie, they've "made money out of you".

leetufc · Post by **leetufc** » 04 May 2016, 13:51

Neal wrote:That last post made me raw with laughter, complete b8llox. Well they aint making money out of me. Roberts tried that and look what happened to the team.

"WITHOUT harming the club in the process". Well lets see shall we! I will remember this post

Me a "Disgusting Leftie", now that was funny. if you knew me I am nothing but that, quite the opposite. Voted Conservative all me life, AND not a shy one either! Like many were during Blairs reign! VOTE OUT!

Why are new owners of Torquay not allowed to make money?

Football clubs are businesses and not charity organisations, yet fans expect the owners to make nothing from them or to pump their money into them for the fans enjoyment.

It would be lovely if hat happened but unless we get an owner with a large pot of money they are happy to splash on us any owners are going to want a return from their investment. We as fans just have to hope that enough due diligence is being done by our current board to ensure the interests of Torquay are met by any deal

Post by **Gulliball** » 04 May 2016, 14:07

Oh Fer Christ Sake wrote: Why "ain't they makin' money out of you"? What's your problem with a business offering goods or services in exchange for money? You do realise that every owner that TUFC has ever had has sought to make money from you and, if you've ever been to the ground on match day, had a programme or a pie, they've "made money out of you".

In 100+ years of our history, I believe that the sum total of dividends paid to TUFC owners is £0. Having owners taking money OUT of the club IS a completely alien concept to us.

All previous owners have tried to maximise revenue, but not to personally make money from. There is quite a large difference between the two situations.

Owing Thea Bristow £3m is one thing, as she never sought to profit from the club. If the 'investment' we've been promised is in the form of loans then an investment group is not going to write it off and it will have to be repaid, in full, plus interest. These details are things the fans don't ever know anything about until it's too late, and if we are not careful then we could very easily get in over our head.

Personally, that is why I have concerns. They might very well deliver everything they promise, but if it comes down to it, will they put the club first or their investment? These are likely to be the first owners we've had since Chris Roberts that won't put the club first. That doesn't mean that they will be like him or can't do a good job, but I think fans should have concerns about giving our club over to an investment group.

Kit_robin · Post by **Kit_robin** » 04 May 2016, 15:11

Neal wrote:That last post made me raw with laughter, complete b8llox. Well they aint making money out of me. Roberts tried that and look what happened to the team

Bollocks, eh? Interesting then that mr Clark osbourne is also a director of "Riviera Stadium Ltd"...

chunkygull · Post by **chunkygull** » 04 May 2016, 16:59

I cant never understand football fans who want their clubs owners to continually put their own money in but hate them and expect them to keep pumping in more. The likes of Everton and Newcastle spring to mind.

Not many clubs have an Abramovich or a Sheik Mansoor. If an owner puts in their own money to get a club going but then decides the club should be self sustainable, live within its means, be sensible and pay for itself from its own income, whats wrong with that.

If owners come in, give an injection of cash and a club becomes more successful and turns a profit therefore the owners should start seeing, making and taking a profit, whats wrong with that. Speculate to accumulate surely. The more successful a club becomes on the pitch the bigger the gate, more merchandise sales and more prize money. A club should be self sustainable then and pay for itself, as long as the club continues investing in the right areas then if the owners have invested they should be entitled to claw back their investment or turn a profit.

Oh Fer Christ Sake · Post by **Oh Fer Christ Sake** » 04 May 2016, 17:08

I don't doubt that previous owners have made the sum total of a fag paper over the years. The question is not how much money owners will make, it is whether they will destroy the club to do that.

The answer to that is as I have addressed above (decried by an angry little man as bollocks, with absolutely no supporting evidence, surprisingly). If they wish to make money, there is nothing intrinsically wrong with that. Equally, there is no need for them to destroy the club to do so. Indeed, it is in their interest to have a club running, drawing in several thousand visitors a week to their cinema/stadium/ice rink etc as well as generating publicity for the aforementioned facilities.

Destroying the club brings absolutely no benefit. To presuppose that this is their ultimate aim is, frankly, bizarre.

Neal · Post by **Neal** » 06 May 2016, 12:32

The point is VERY CLEAR! Obviously fans pay money when you visit the ground, and yes that money is then used for something, gee this is tiresome explaining this. What Im saying is "what" that probably small amount of money in the scheme of things is used for. For me, a small club like Torquay that money should be spent on the club NOT lining some already wealthy individuals pocket.

I don't have to submit any evidence, no one on here has for any alternative view.

I doubt any previous owner has taken any money out of the club, and that is how I would want it to continue. My previous posts over the last years have said that I would prefer the club to find its own level on the income generated. obviously if there was a benefactor no one would turn that
down.

Why do you think im angry, I said I was laughing. A LITTLE DIG EH!

Oh Fer Christ Sake · Post by **Oh Fer Christ Sake** » 06 May 2016, 12:46

The reason you are being asked to prove evidence is because you're the one making accusations. You're saying that the new owners are in it for themselves, on the make, looking to shaft the club for their own gains. I'm suggesting this needn't necessarily be the case but you're still banging that drum. This, quite reasonably, leads us to assume that you have good reason to continue on your discredited line of attack.

If all you're doing is baselessly presupposing that the new owners are shysters, then that's fine. That's your prerogative, but you'll have to forgive us if we write you off as a gibbering lunatic who sees conspiracy at every turn.
If you've some evidence, then we, as the presently unseeing, would be grateful to be brought "into the loop" such that we might make a more informed assessment of our future prospects.

As for being angry, it might have something to do with ALL THE SHOUTING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111!!111!!!!11!1!!1

So, in the words of the youth, evidence or GTFO.

Jerry · Post by **Jerry** » 06 May 2016, 14:19

Oh Fer Christ Sake wrote:The reason you are being asked to prove evidence is because you're the one making accusations. You're saying that the new owners are in it for themselves, on the make, looking to shaft the club for their own gains. I'm suggesting this needn't necessarily be the case but you're still banging that drum. This, quite reasonably, leads us to assume that you have good reason to continue on your discredited line of attack.

If all you're doing is baselessly presupposing that the new owners are shysters, then that's fine. That's your prerogative, but you'll have to forgive us if we write you off as a gibbering lunatic who sees conspiracy at every turn.
If you've some evidence, then we, as the presently unseeing, would be grateful to be brought "into the loop" such that we might make a more informed assessment of our future prospects.

As for being angry, it might have something to do with ALL THE SHOUTING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111!!111!!!!11!1!!1

So, in the words of the youth, evidence or GTFO.

Welcome back Matt

Plainmoor78 · Post by **Plainmoor78** » 06 May 2016, 14:51

Of course Gaming International are looking to profit from their association with TUFC. That is how businesses operate. But any sensible business man would not 'shaft' his asset, he would nurture it by careful investment and administration in order to attract custom, and thus make his profit and also having money to reinvest in said asset. That is the optimistic scenario. If it does not work out then TUST can step in and take the club into community ownership where it will have to have to find its natural level as Neal wishes. I believe the current situation where we are about to be taken over is worth the risk for the chance to see if we can become a Football League club again. I believe this is our last chance to do so. If we have to settle for finding our natural level as it is then I believe that will be as a part-time club and I am not sure we would even be able to afford the rent on Plainmoor when you consider the sort of attendances the Southern Leagued attracts.

Post by **Southampton Gull** » 13 May 2016, 22:37

One has to wonder how much Dave Phillips has to lose if this deal goes tits up. Is he letting them get away with too much in order to remain in a position of influence on the board? I must admit I'm seriously beginning to question his motives. I'd be far happier if he had conducted negotiations from a totally different standpoint.

These guys know what they're doing, are they using the lure of a seat on the board to keep him sweet? Is he really doing what is in the best interests of the club or is he now looking after number 1?

Plainmoor78 · Post by **Plainmoor78** » 13 May 2016, 23:13

"Letting them get away with too much". In what sense? If they buy the club they own it lock, stock and barrel anyway, theirs to do wjat they want with it anyway. So how is Dave Phillips supposed to be letting them get away with too much. What more can he give them than 100% ownership of the club. Once they have the club he has lost his influence anyway even if does stay as chairman because they are the ones with thee lucre.

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