The European Union: We're out...!!!

[Gullscorer]

David Cameron is now refusing to debate with senior 'Leave' Conservative politicians such as Boris Johnson and Michael Gove. And so ITV lined him up to debate with Nigel Farage. But this decision is to be challenged by the official 'Leave' campaign. (I'm beginning to see why 'Vote Leave' was chosen over the alternative, and better supported, 'out' campaigns). The attempts to sideline UKIP and to stifle major pro-Leave voices, all following the advantage given to the 'Remain' campaign by the Government's use of taxpayers' money to promulgate a pro-EU propaganda leaflet. Anyone else see a pattern developing here..??
As always, the comments section is interesting: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ories.html

[BobBobBob]

There's a conspiracy theory going around that says Gullscorer is actually an agent for the totalitarian feminist pro-BBC pro-EU establishment and he is willfully and deliberately (and with deliberate will) trying to sound as unhinged as possible in the EU referendum thread to covertly convince people to vote to remain. This is the beauty of using your approach to logic and reason, I don't need to prove anything to know its true. Whatever your response is will prove it for me. If you say you're not, then you obviously are. And if you say you are, then you've admitted it! If you ignore it entirely, then you're dodging the reality which proves everything. OPEN YOUR EYES SHEEPLE. Gullscorer is trying to force his totalitarian feminist totalitarian pro-BBC totalitarian agenda (of the totalitarian kind) on us. Look at the signs. "Gullscorer" written backwards is "rerocsllug". Now if you take away all the consonants, you're left with "eou". Then take away the "o" (as in "Oh my god what a revelation!!") what have you got? EU!!!!!!! You've been absolutely rumbled, mate. Case closed. Get back to Brussels.

[Plainmoor78]

I am not surprised that Cameron refuses to debate with Johnson or Gove. No matter which way the referendum goes there is going to be open civil war within the Tory party when it is over. Csameron wants to stay in the job until at least late 2019. If vote leave wins I think Johnson will challenge Cameron while the iron is still hot. If remain wins then I think Gove is a more creditable challenger (there is a doubt over Johnson's sincerity in almost everything he does and eurosceptic MPs may hold him responsible if the referendum is lost. Also a committed eurospectic will use the Tory leadership to press for a further referendum within the next ten years). This referendum is as much about the future direction of the Tory party as it is about the country. The unelectability of the labour party under Corbyn means the Tories will be able to spend at least the next eight years in fighting amongst themselves when they are supposed to be running the country. Ukip if it plays its cards right might still get its chance if the above scenario unfolds with the lib dems dead in the water and labour out of it. Remember the SNP lost a referendum and went on from strength to strength.

[Gullscorer]

There's a conspiracy theory going around that says Gullscorer is actually an agent for the totalitarian feminist pro-BBC pro-EU establishment and he is willfully and deliberately (and with deliberate will) trying to sound as unhinged as possible in the EU referendum thread to covertly convince people to vote to remain. This is the beauty of using your approach to logic and reason, I don't need to prove anything to know its true. Whatever your response is will prove it for me. If you say you're not, then you obviously are. And if you say you are, then you've admitted it! If you ignore it entirely, then you're dodging the reality which proves everything. OPEN YOUR EYES SHEEPLE. Gullscorer is trying to force his totalitarian feminist totalitarian pro-BBC totalitarian agenda (of the totalitarian kind) on us. Look at the signs. "Gullscorer" written backwards is "rerocsllug". Now if you take away all the consonants, you're left with "eou". Then take away the "o" (as in "Oh my god what a revelation!!") what have you got? EU!!!!!!! You've been absolutely rumbled, mate. Case closed. Get back to Brussels.

Ha ha.. Bob, Bob, Bob, I'm afraid this kind of post reveals more about yourself than about anything else. Directed against an opponent in debate rather than against his or her arguments, it simply reveals the paucity and immaturity of your ideas and the weakness of your position, mired as it is in your own ideology.

But please don't stop. The more you post, the more we see your postures and attitudes for what they really are, and will give us all a good laugh into the bargain. =D

[Gullscorer]

The EU disadvantages the poorest in our society:
http://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/fox- ... r-society/

Boris Johnson: http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/05/bori ... e-debates/

[Gullscorer]

The UK trade deficit with EU countries is £67.8 billion a year and rising, while Germany has a £81.8 billion trade surplus with the 27 other member states. The EU single market is not working for us.

On the other hand, the UK’s trade surplus with the rest of the world, in relation to the same goods and services on which we make such a monumental loss with the other 27 EU member states, was £31.1 billion last year, and it is growing.

The economies of every continent have grown over the past decade, except for those of Antarctica and Europe. It’s obvious that we have a brighter future if we leave the EU.

Yet the Government tries to frighten us by saying (among other things) that President Putin would like us to leave the EU, but it regards as praiseworthy the fact that the President of communist China wants us to remain! And it ignores the anti-democratic nature of the EU (as in, for example, the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership, the secret EU-US trade deal, which threatens our NHS and permits US companies to sue sovereign governments for alleged loss of profits) and its relentless progress towards political union!

Vote 'Leave'!

Parliamentary EU debate 9 May:
watch the video: http://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Inde ... 9df4b4cad4
read the transcript: https://hansard.digiminster.com/commons ... dumLeaflet

[Gullscorer]

Europhiles accuse BBC of bias! http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/672162 ... ias-Brexit

[Jerry]

Europhiles accuse BBC of bias! http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/672162 ... ias-Brexit

Seems you are doomed to fight a losing cause Gullscorer now that a bunch of irrelevant "celebrities" have taken it upon themselves to tell us simple folk how we should vote.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/ben ... 39811.html

[Gullscorer]

Celebrities? More like brainless morons. Half of them are feminists and I wouldn't pay to watch any of them perform, let alone heed their political advice. I'd much rather see Nigel Farage, Boris Johnson, Daniel Hannan, Kate Hoey and Diane James together in a super-hero movie (the documentary)... :~D

[Gullscorer]

Secret Government memo reveals how EU is costing the UK billions:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05 ... -billions/

[Gullscorer]

Safer Britain speeches, with Q & A :


Educational establishments were once places to acquire knowledge, to carry out objective research, and a fair exchange of ideas to be discussed. Now, you're more likely to find propaganda, bias, political correctness and indoctrination: http://www.ukip.org/university_of_wolve ... _eu_letter

[Plainmoor78]

Let's assume we vote to leave the EU; then what? Do we choose the Norway model, the swiss model, the Canadian model, the Turkish model or what? Are we going to need another referendum to approve whatever model the government approves. This is the main weakness of the leave campaign, you do not know what you are going to end up with.

[BobBobBob]

Good post! This is a very strong reason why I'm most likely to vote to stay. I appreciate that this sentiment comes across as scaremongering if you're in the Leave campaign, but for those of us outside that we kind of have to base our decision on what ifs. The only truth in this referendum appears to be that no one knows what will happen if we vote to Leave. Do I want to take a gamble? Is the economy really at stake? Will I be uprooting over a million British people? What exactly is going to happen if I vote to leave? In my opinion, it's on the Leave campaign to answer these questions. They are the prosecution in the trial of the EU so it's on them to make the case. Instead, they have spent far too much time focusing on their own set of what ifs, conspiracies about a European superstate and pointing to statistics that look bad out of context.

For example, our resident UKIP spokesperson tells us further up the page that the UK runs a trade deficit to the tune of 67.8 billion pounds a year with EU countries. This sounds extraordinarily bad on its own. But if you break it down, all that really tells us is that we import an enormous amount of goods from the EU. If you do a bit of research into exactly what it is we import from EU countries, you'll find that it's essential goods that feed our economy. Machine parts, vehicles, vegetables, medical supplies, pharmaceuticals, electrical appliances and such like. Trade is give and take, we need our imports as much as we need our exports. It's not like Germany is holding a metaphorical gun to our head to make us buy their vehicles. People in the UK want to buy them. Our businesses in the UK are choosing to import those goods from European countries. One might make an educated guess at a reason why being because we're part of the EU and that makes the act of importing those goods easier and cheaper than it otherwise would be. So, that we run a large trade deficit is not a reason on its own to leave.

If the argument was we rely too much on European imports, fair enough. That's a good argument. Is it a good argument to leave? Well, not really. It's a good argument to suggest that the UK is failing to support itself with industry. It's a good argument for us to produce more goods of our own. But the thing is there is little to stop us creating new manufacturing industries or the production of things like pharmaceuticals today. Just on that issue alone, the case for leaving is very flimsy.

[Dave]

I've never had a problem accepting there is scaremongering on both sides, and both the "in" and "out" campaigns have used it as a tactic to win votes, but this is where I think the "in" campaign are winning hands down in terms of scaremongering.

The EU was born in November 1993 , The UK very successfully managed to trade with countries right the way across the world, all the vital goods referred to above were brought into the country, we traded our very well made goods across the world, and the UK would able to trade again on our own away from the EU.

The UK would able to trade on own terms, something our country can not do right now, as country we have to wait for the EU to do trade deals and pass the scraps around, this is something that costs jobs in this country, as these EU trade deals can take years to compete, as "all" member states have to agree to the terms with in, lets try getting 3 countries to agree to the same thing, let alone 28.

Time for once to have some confidence in our own country

Thanks to the EU, immigration is out of control. Do not get me wrong there's nothing wrong with immigration, it can be a very good thing, but it has to be controlled, prior to 1993, our government had a very good handle on net migration it knew who, and how many people roughly were coming in and out of the country, it doesn't have the first clue these days, and much of it's figures are guess work really..

What's wrong with wanting a country where we decide who comes in and how many people, which we can't do now, so the UK can give priority to doctors, and other health care professionals, teachers, I.T professionals, and engineers, and cut the number, of unskilled workers coming in who bring very little benefit to our country, and the very thing that's causing wage compression, an de-grading workers rights, as zero hours contracts jobs which should be out-lawed are on the rise, as our cases of companies ending enhanced premiums for working overnight, and Sunday's, and people tell me the EU protects workers rights, really ?

In 2015 the UK's membership showed a net loss of £8.5 billion, that's right we paid into the EU £8.5 billion more than we got back in rebates, wonder what the government could have done with that money, NHS, schools, roads, maybe.

Prior to 1993, as far as Britain was concerned, the world turned, we had water, lighting, food, money, rightly or wrongly, our county successfully defended the Falkland Island, and helped removed an invading power from Kuwait, yes all before the EU.

In answer, NO, we will not need another referendum, we will NOT, need to follow any model taken up by Norway or the Switzerland, or the terrorist supporting, harbouring Turkey, which will become members who will become members of the EU despite what liar tells us.

We are the 5th largest economy in the world, plenty will want to trade with us, we have the 4th most powerful armed forces in the world, a seat on the G8, hell even the internet in it's original form was invented by Brit, stop doing your own country down.

The answer is, we will take our place back n the world just as before, and WILL follow our own BRITISH model post Brexit.

[Dave]

Forgot to add, the "in" scaremongering also talk about how our security relying on EU membership, again really. with out wanting to sound if I'm trivializing the subject, it is important, but last year what happened in Paris and right in the EU's own capital Brussels.

If the EU can't stop such an attack in it's own back yard when can it, and it's since been admitted that these attacks happened because the security services from with in the EU "still" do not cooperate with each other as they should, another reason why we'd be safer out.