Guiesley V Torquay Sat 12th November 3pm

Fonda · Post by **Fonda** » 13 Nov 2016, 17:13

Quite right. But it's kind of a good job for all of us that they were prepared to step in when nobody else would then isn't it?

Neal · Post by **Neal** » 13 Nov 2016, 17:15

I might be wrong, but I thought I heard Philips say he was ready to kiss goodbye to the money they have already invested.

Fonda · Post by **Fonda** » 13 Nov 2016, 17:19

In which case the only reason they'd be stalling is because the deals on the table aren't perhaps in the best interests of the club long term.

Dazza · Post by **Dazza** » 13 Nov 2016, 17:50

I am not sure it's correct to say they are stalling. Hasn't it been said ( third hand) that they want bids by this weekend and they will then dicide what is on the table and where they go from there.

hector · Post by **hector** » 13 Nov 2016, 20:42

I suspect if the other Kevin Nicholson (the ex-Exeter youth coach, now at Cardiff and incidentally, quite highly regarded) was our manager with the record of our Kevin Nicholson, there would be quite a strong and vocal call for him to go. Nico's record , this season, is not exactly defensible, especially if you take him at his word (at the forum) and lay the blame for performances at his door.

I cannot make up my mind as to whether it is simply poor players (that Nico signed) or poor management or both. Is Williams cheaper than Harrrad? Is Lathrope cheaper than Racchi? At the start of the season, I would not have expected us to be where we are now at this time of the season yet of the other 7 teams in the bottom 8, we have lost to five of them.

If it is down to poor management, then KN's use of Williams would probably be the strongest argument for that. In a season full of misery, it is Williams who has shown the most sublime moments with his pre-season goal v WBA and goals against Bromley (I think) and Southport. He is a mercurial player - not a workhorse - so if KN's reasons for not playing him are because he doesn't run himself into the ground to the extent that he is knackered and useless for the last 25 minutes of the game, then why on earth sign him? I doubt Williams came especially cheaply so it has not been prudent use of the scarce funds to sign him.

Yet I am not clamouring for a change in manager. The results almost seem like a sideshow to the bigger issue of ownership and survival and each new low and defeat now hardly registers. It almost doesn't matter.

tomogull · Post by **tomogull** » 14 Nov 2016, 00:05

Ah, fickle football fans ! You'd never guess reading this thread that less than six months ago, Nicho was being praised as being a great manager and should be given the freedom of the town ! The team is not playing well and Nicho has to take responsibility for the way the team is set up and it is true that he isn't getting the best out of players. But let's remember - his pre-season budget for bringing in players was rock bottom. When Angus went to Barnsley, he wasn't allowed any funds to sign a replacement. We have a wafer thin (much too thin in my opioion) squad as shown by those on the bench yesterday - inexperienced players such as Duke and Hancox. He has Verma, Sparkes and Lathrope out injured - three players who would be in the side if fit.

Even if we are relegated, I would support Nicho because he is trying to run a team with one arm tied behind his back. We badly need new owners with fresh investment to allow Nicho to bring in two or three players in the January transfer window. He has already addressed the lack of width by bringing in Fitzpatrick and with Sparkes on the other flank when fit, we hopefully could see an upturn in our fortunes. But with the club's debts and tumbling gates, you have to ask - who would want to take on Torquay United ?

Post by **Scott Brehaut** » 14 Nov 2016, 14:12

tomogull wrote:Ah, fickle football fans ! You'd never guess reading this thread that less than six months ago, Nicho was being praised as being a great manager and should be given the freedom of the town ! The team is not playing well and Nicho has to take responsibility for the way the team is set up and it is true that he isn't getting the best out of players. But let's remember - his pre-season budget for bringing in players was rock bottom. When Angus went to Barnsley, he wasn't allowed any funds to sign a replacement. We have a wafer thin (much too thin in my opioion) squad as shown by those on the bench yesterday - inexperienced players such as Duke and Hancox. He has Verma, Sparkes and Lathrope out injured - three players who would be in the side if fit.

Even if we are relegated, I would support Nicho because he is trying to run a team with one arm tied behind his back. We badly need new owners with fresh investment to allow Nicho to bring in two or three players in the January transfer window. He has already addressed the lack of width by bringing in Fitzpatrick and with Sparkes on the other flank when fit, we hopefully could see an upturn in our fortunes. But with the club's debts and tumbling gates, you have to ask - who would want to take on Torquay United ?

Fonda · Post by **Fonda** » 14 Nov 2016, 14:28

I'd love Nico to succeed. He comes across as a nice guy, and clearly cares about the club and the locality. But if he was a dour northern bloke with ginger hair, he'd have been hounded out of town by now. When a manager is popular, poor performance is blamed on the players. When a manager is less popular, poor performance is all attributed to him.

tomogull · Post by **tomogull** » 14 Nov 2016, 16:57

Fonda wrote:I'd love Nico to succeed. He comes across as a nice guy, and clearly cares about the club and the locality. But if he was a dour northern bloke with ginger hair, he'd have been hounded out of town by now. When a manager is popular, poor performance is blamed on the players. When a manager is less popular, poor performance is all attributed to him.

In normal circumstances, I'd agree with you. But these are not normal circumstances as the club is in a financial mess and Nicho has had to scrape by with a minimum players budget.

In a previous post, you posted - Blame Nicholson, blame Phillips or blame the players. Fact is, whilst it would be far simpler if there was a single problem to fix, it's far more complicated than that. None of them are singularly to blame.

In a nutshell, that is exactly the dire situation we are in.

S4fedr1ve · Post by **S4fedr1ve** » 14 Nov 2016, 17:56

1/Blame the manager. Well he's doing the best he can on half a shoestring. Last seasons turnaround was amazing. I trust him to do it again.
2/ Blame the board. Well sure mistakes have been made. They are doing what they can to keep the club running on very little income.
3/Blame the players. Well maybe but if they are generally not good enough for this level then as long as they are doing there best!! can you really.

So the blame in my humble opinion should be directed elsewhere

A/ The previous administration, for getting us in this s**t in the first place just chucking around the Bristow family money. and watching it disappear.
B/ The greedy premier league while they rake in the millions in tv revenue the small clubs are just forgotton.
C/ The fans of these premier league clubs who live hundreds of miles away from these places but would rather watch Manchester sainsburys v Manchester tesco or chelsea waitrose v arsenal morrisons on telly than go a mile down the road and support there local team Torquay cornershop.

points AB and C really p**s me off.

gullpower · Post by **gullpower** » 14 Nov 2016, 18:01

S4fedr1ve wrote:1/Blame the manager. Well he's doing the best he can on half a shoestring. Last seasons turnaround was amazing. I trust him to do it again.
2/ Blame the board. Well sure mistakes have been made. They are doing what they can to keep the club running on very little income.
3/Blame the players. Well maybe but if they are generally not good enough for this level then as long as they are doing there best!! can you really.

So the blame in my humble opinion should be directed elsewhere

A/ The previous administration, for getting us in this s**t in the first place just chucking around the Bristow family money. and watching it disappear.
B/ The greedy premier league while they rake in the millions in tv revenue the small clubs are just forgotton.
C/ The fans of these premier league clubs who live hundreds of miles away from these places but would rather watch Manchester sainsburys v Manchester tesco or chelsea waitrose v arsenal morrisons on telly than go a mile down the road and support there local team Torquay cornershop.

points AB and C really p**s me off .

Orange Gull · Post by **Orange Gull** » 14 Nov 2016, 19:09

S4fedr1ve wrote:1/Blame the manager. Well he's doing the best he can on half a shoestring. Last seasons turnaround was amazing. I trust him to do it again.

I don't think you can compare the two seasons. The squad when Nicholson took over was almost totally different to the one that ended the season. The turnaround in form was only possible because of the signings that were made after Christmas, if we had maintained the same squad that we started with I think it's more likely than not we would have been relegated.

This time round we can't go out and effectively get a new squad halfway through the season, unless of course have a major injection of cash. We are stuck with this current group of players and anything can happen but at the moment without any meaningful reinforcements I think we will be relegated. Last season we had a defence of Berry, Macdonald, Smith and Butler. That was a damn good back four in this league and they all came good. Do we honestly think a back four of Rowe-Turner, Gerring, Galifuoco and Verma will be able to perform at the same standard? They're going to have to if we are to stay up.

I appreciate that these were the best players Nico could get for whatever money he had but that doesn't excuse some of the performances. On the first day of the season I and everyone else at Macclesfield could see that Blissett could not hold the ball up or control it very well. It was pointless then to just launch the ball towards him and hope he could do something with it. Yet in so many comments I've read on here it seems as though nothing has changed. We're still just booting it long and hoping Blissett can get on the end of it.

So in the end, if we get some investment which means Nico can get some new players in then I think we'll be alright. However, if we are forced to keep the same squad as now then I can't see us staying up. This is immaterial though as we'd be out of business before the end of the season anyway if we don't get fresh investment.

arcadia · Post by **arcadia** » 14 Nov 2016, 21:17

Beginning to think last years escape was just luck but it can't be as there is no such thing as luck.Is there!

We are shipping goals stop them going in and you've got a chance. If we keep going forward trying to score we will leave it open at the back this is the managers job to stop this happening. The professional way to get out of this is to stop the goals going in and build from there. This should have happened before Angus left.

Someones got a good thought for GI!

nickbrod · Post by **nickbrod** » 14 Nov 2016, 21:28

Surely it was GI's injection of loan money which funded the Great Escape?

Maidstone gull · Post by **Maidstone gull** » 14 Nov 2016, 21:45

It is when things are not going right that stress builds. Nobody can make good decisions IF you can't remain calm and above all CONFIDENT.
That's why great leaders and great players maintain their confidence and belief even in the "darkest moments". Very few of the comments on this site contribute towards building confidence or support good decision making .
I am hurt too, but what's the point in contributing in a way that saps the confidence of the manager and the players???
Anybody who thinks that the manager and players don't read this site and don't care , please think again, because they do and they do care deeply about their club and their jobs.
This situation can AND will be turned around and I have seen enough in the good moments this season to totally believe in this manager and this team. The players are feeling sorry for themselves and just need to snap out of it this week from today until the last whistle of the season.
They need to walk out on that pitch every game bristling with CONFIDENCE from now on.
One thing is for sure though. The players have to fight , they have to scrap, they have to win their individual physical battles in this league.
You have to win your mental battles, your technical battles and your battles with yourself and your own SELF BELIEF.
And we have to play our part, we have to be leaders too. We have to remain calm and considered and think , "is this post helping build confidence?" Or is it just making a hurt person feel a bit better?
We are the "fans" , that means "fanatics" .
That means that we are "filled with an excessive and single minded zeal for an extreme cause"
Nobody can argue that turning things around from here is an extremely difficult cause to support.
So, let's all show our zeal by helping to build the CONFIDENCE the players and the manager need . Alternatively this forum can continue thinking that the posts being shared are helping, because I genuinely know and believe that the people posting DO CARE but that care has to be directed at achieving something as "fanatics", we can and have to be "supporters".
I look forward to being there on Saturday and in seeing a confident team stride out there and show how they have learned from their mistakes, their lack of confidence and their lack of belief.
You can't ever change the past but we can and we must change the future starting Saturday.

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