Nobody is questioning Nicho's commitment, his love for everything Torquay plus his off the field positive activities but where it matters, on the pitch, is where he's shown up to be lacking and with 17 games left to stay in this league it's pretty important that something happens soon.
Word is that some transfer activity involving some experienced players is imminent.
Time to go Mr Nicholson... POOR
First time poster, yes another Stubbs fan Wivel, been all downhill since General Franco left for Leicester
Anyway, my thoughts - so its a young team lacking in confidence.....the latest from the manager, well didn't they get any confidence from sticking 9 past
the team 2nd in the League ? Maidstone had won once in 13 games, weren't they lacking in confidence?
There is obviously some ability in this team if they can match FGR albeit lacking in a few positions, centre back, centre midfield and up front, but my main gripe is the what I would call mental fitness, why is this team always second to the ball ? they dont think quick enough or act quick enough, they dont anticipate , so they have to react and when they do they are slow to do it. I have seen it in nearly every home game and have lost count of the times Dave Thomas says on the radio commentary, 'Torquay are looking seriously off the pace and need to sharpen up' - why is this happening ?
Also , what does Nicholson say at half time? I have yet to see us come out at the start of the second half whether we are losing , winning or drawing fired up and on the front foot. I'm sorry but if the players are not listening to him or responding we have to put someone in charge they will listen to
and there is no leader on the field either, thinking of Roadrunners favourite player, if we had Clint Boulton on the pitch he would soon knock them into shape. Another thing, get the players to attack the ball when its crossed not just hope it will come to them, Kieffer Moore showed them how to do it
I know its not Nicho's style but some of these players need a kick up the backside, do you think if Martin Allen was in charge our team would be playing like this? Its not all about the budget, this team should be safely in mid table. I am beginning to wonder if Steve Tully and Wayne Carlisle couldnt do a better job with this lot, they surely couldnt do much worse
Anyway, my thoughts - so its a young team lacking in confidence.....the latest from the manager, well didn't they get any confidence from sticking 9 past
the team 2nd in the League ? Maidstone had won once in 13 games, weren't they lacking in confidence?
There is obviously some ability in this team if they can match FGR albeit lacking in a few positions, centre back, centre midfield and up front, but my main gripe is the what I would call mental fitness, why is this team always second to the ball ? they dont think quick enough or act quick enough, they dont anticipate , so they have to react and when they do they are slow to do it. I have seen it in nearly every home game and have lost count of the times Dave Thomas says on the radio commentary, 'Torquay are looking seriously off the pace and need to sharpen up' - why is this happening ?
Also , what does Nicholson say at half time? I have yet to see us come out at the start of the second half whether we are losing , winning or drawing fired up and on the front foot. I'm sorry but if the players are not listening to him or responding we have to put someone in charge they will listen to
and there is no leader on the field either, thinking of Roadrunners favourite player, if we had Clint Boulton on the pitch he would soon knock them into shape. Another thing, get the players to attack the ball when its crossed not just hope it will come to them, Kieffer Moore showed them how to do it
I know its not Nicho's style but some of these players need a kick up the backside, do you think if Martin Allen was in charge our team would be playing like this? Its not all about the budget, this team should be safely in mid table. I am beginning to wonder if Steve Tully and Wayne Carlisle couldnt do a better job with this lot, they surely couldnt do much worse
Are Steve Tully and Wayne Carlisle actually speaking. ? Quite clearly last year they fell out pretty heavily.
I've been seeing a lot of posts talking some tosh, particularly regarding sacking KN or forcing GI out.
- Torquay United is not currently viable as a business. We were days away from the club closing down and were saved by a group of fans. Even by giving us a meagre budget by Conference standards, accepting loans, and by selling numerous players, the stewardship of these people oversaw a huge financial loss.
- We are not an attractive prospect to players. Our budget and geographical situation mean that our recruitment focus has, by necessity, been on either young players who have already failed at multiple clubs and so look to us as their final opportunity to make it professionally or knackered journeymen with injury problems or, by happy chance, ties to the local area. I cannot emphasise this point enough. A lot of 'part timers' have better squads than us because their players can make more money by training a few days a week for and then working a regular job the rest. For us, signing a player isn't just the wages, it's the relocation costs, the boarding, the logistics, and that's even IF they want to uproot to move down to what - contrary to what our rose-tinted local glasses would have us believe - that desirable an area socio-economically. This isn't Football Manager, where we just need to use our budget better to pick up that undiscovered journeyman.
- Motivation/Getting the best out of the players. There is a world of difference between you 'giving 100%' at your job (I use inverted commas because I have seen VERY few people give absolutely everything at their job) and a player giving 100% on the pitch or performing up to the expected standard. Even a small stadium like ours is a pressure cooker, and when the crowd is negative and every false move is met by derision, it is far easier to take the safe option and lump the ball forward than pass. Similarly, ask any sports psychologist and they will tell you that there is no simple way to instill confidence and take a player who has been rejected at multiple clubs into a mental bastion. It's hard enough for the top-paid shrinks to coax psychological strength out of the best sportspeople in the world, now imagine what it's like for a manager (/bus driver/admin assistant/player/coach/general dogsbody) to try and do the same for a bunch of poorly-educated no-hopers, on less money a week than most of this forum, who get a barracking from the stands every time they make a mistake.
- Our only hope of financial survival is a board that is willing to put significant sums of money into the club whilst we make ourselves self-sustaining. That means that for all the talk of TUST being fantastic and having the club's best interests at heart, they were a non-starter. We have seen on this forum already how people usually expect some kind of return for their money (see the responses to the 'save Torquay United from GI' fund and the community share issue), and it's pretty self-evident that what was essentially another group of well-meaning fans would not have been able to keep us solvent.
- Plainmoor is, in terms of transport links, facilities and expansion potential, not good enough. As much as all the old heads on this forum have fond memories of the place and there is this nostalgic attachment to the ground, we cannot stay there. Miraculous investment aside (and I'm talking at the level of buying the school, improving all the roads around it etc), we MUST explore the possibility of moving to a stadium with the ability to attract more fans, both home and away, provide other revenue streams and survive the winter calendar. For that reason, outright opposing GI's wish to purchase Plainmoor is shortsighted. What we SHOULD be doing is getting our councillors to sign a deal to the tune that GI will get Plainmoor, but ONLY get it when the new stadium is built.
- Sacking KN will put us in an even worse financial situation than we already are with no guarantee of an improvement, mainly for the reasons discussed above regarding player recruitment and motivation. Nicholson has proved that he can keep us up from far worse positions than we find ourselves currently in. He has been hamstrung by injuries to Young, Lathrope, the sales of MacDonald and Blissett, and the lack of any kind of real funding to get players in above our current quality. In terms of risk/reward, sacking the manager right now is crazy. Yeah, it would make us feel good and like we're 'taking action', but sometimes the best way to 'do something' is to do nothing, not simply act because we want to be seen to be doing something productive.
- Torquay United is not currently viable as a business. We were days away from the club closing down and were saved by a group of fans. Even by giving us a meagre budget by Conference standards, accepting loans, and by selling numerous players, the stewardship of these people oversaw a huge financial loss.
- We are not an attractive prospect to players. Our budget and geographical situation mean that our recruitment focus has, by necessity, been on either young players who have already failed at multiple clubs and so look to us as their final opportunity to make it professionally or knackered journeymen with injury problems or, by happy chance, ties to the local area. I cannot emphasise this point enough. A lot of 'part timers' have better squads than us because their players can make more money by training a few days a week for and then working a regular job the rest. For us, signing a player isn't just the wages, it's the relocation costs, the boarding, the logistics, and that's even IF they want to uproot to move down to what - contrary to what our rose-tinted local glasses would have us believe - that desirable an area socio-economically. This isn't Football Manager, where we just need to use our budget better to pick up that undiscovered journeyman.
- Motivation/Getting the best out of the players. There is a world of difference between you 'giving 100%' at your job (I use inverted commas because I have seen VERY few people give absolutely everything at their job) and a player giving 100% on the pitch or performing up to the expected standard. Even a small stadium like ours is a pressure cooker, and when the crowd is negative and every false move is met by derision, it is far easier to take the safe option and lump the ball forward than pass. Similarly, ask any sports psychologist and they will tell you that there is no simple way to instill confidence and take a player who has been rejected at multiple clubs into a mental bastion. It's hard enough for the top-paid shrinks to coax psychological strength out of the best sportspeople in the world, now imagine what it's like for a manager (/bus driver/admin assistant/player/coach/general dogsbody) to try and do the same for a bunch of poorly-educated no-hopers, on less money a week than most of this forum, who get a barracking from the stands every time they make a mistake.
- Our only hope of financial survival is a board that is willing to put significant sums of money into the club whilst we make ourselves self-sustaining. That means that for all the talk of TUST being fantastic and having the club's best interests at heart, they were a non-starter. We have seen on this forum already how people usually expect some kind of return for their money (see the responses to the 'save Torquay United from GI' fund and the community share issue), and it's pretty self-evident that what was essentially another group of well-meaning fans would not have been able to keep us solvent.
- Plainmoor is, in terms of transport links, facilities and expansion potential, not good enough. As much as all the old heads on this forum have fond memories of the place and there is this nostalgic attachment to the ground, we cannot stay there. Miraculous investment aside (and I'm talking at the level of buying the school, improving all the roads around it etc), we MUST explore the possibility of moving to a stadium with the ability to attract more fans, both home and away, provide other revenue streams and survive the winter calendar. For that reason, outright opposing GI's wish to purchase Plainmoor is shortsighted. What we SHOULD be doing is getting our councillors to sign a deal to the tune that GI will get Plainmoor, but ONLY get it when the new stadium is built.
- Sacking KN will put us in an even worse financial situation than we already are with no guarantee of an improvement, mainly for the reasons discussed above regarding player recruitment and motivation. Nicholson has proved that he can keep us up from far worse positions than we find ourselves currently in. He has been hamstrung by injuries to Young, Lathrope, the sales of MacDonald and Blissett, and the lack of any kind of real funding to get players in above our current quality. In terms of risk/reward, sacking the manager right now is crazy. Yeah, it would make us feel good and like we're 'taking action', but sometimes the best way to 'do something' is to do nothing, not simply act because we want to be seen to be doing something productive.
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MellowYellow
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Gullscorer
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Cos metaphors are great, let's use one. A group of people are on board a ship in a storm. The captain has the ship pointed firmly into the waves as the storm batters them. The passengers are all desperately bailing as the ship takes on water. A shrill cry erupts from someone:
"DO SOMETHING!!!"
Desperate to respond to their concerns, the captain throws the ship into a ninety degree turn...meaning that the ship is now side-on to the waves, which broadside the ship and capsize it. Far better to have stayed on course and bailed like madmen than take action for action's sake and ruin everything.
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MellowYellow
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Lets simplify the metaphorical expression to we are all "Blind fools of fate and slaves of circumstance"
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DevonYellow
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Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results...like Torquay United on a Saturday afternoon.
Or maybe, the ship owners should not have employed a captain who fails to check the shipping forecast, so gaining the knowledge of the impending storm so he could sail around it, or take the required shelter. Maybe the ship owners should remove this captain, and replace him with someone who would think to check the shipping forecast, so avoiding their ship being placed in danger, in the future.
Better to be proactive, than reactive
Better to be proactive, than reactive
Formerly known as forevertufc
[/quote]
While Blisset was at the club, Nicholson decided to make his "marquee" signing a striker who he doesn't fancy. McDonald was sold early and he had adequate time to find a replacement. He brought in McGinty. He also had the chance to resign a midfielder who made it abundantly clear he wanted to stay in Racchi and let him move on. Then brought in a known injury prone player in Lathrope. Although he's a decent player him getting injured was as inevitable as Sunday following Saturday.
Thats not bad luck. Its not him being usurped by those behind the scenes. Its bad management.
[/quote]
Yes Angus was sold but he didn't have any if that money to spend on a replacement. He still only had the same budget as beforehand to work with. A's for Racchi, his wage Bill was the same as the cost of three of the current squad. There has been no money for him. He's working with his hands tied. Who do you expect him to sign ? And don't forget that even loan signings have to be paid so your reliant on the parent club cutting a deal and paying a proportion of it.
[/quote]Mcdonalds wages would have been freed up when he left. He would have been one of the higher earners. The club also said that KN would have had a slightly increased budget this season as there were not as many outgoings (Hargreaves' gardening leave eg) as there were last season. Racchi was not on good money last season and I will be very surprised if Lathrope is on much,if any, less.
I know he is working with his hands tied, as are most managers. Especially at lower levels. However, you are comparing that to wage bills from past seasons that are simply light years away from ever being plausible again. That doesn't excuse everything though and tbh, there is not much of an argument to say that he has used what he has available all that well.
While Blisset was at the club, Nicholson decided to make his "marquee" signing a striker who he doesn't fancy. McDonald was sold early and he had adequate time to find a replacement. He brought in McGinty. He also had the chance to resign a midfielder who made it abundantly clear he wanted to stay in Racchi and let him move on. Then brought in a known injury prone player in Lathrope. Although he's a decent player him getting injured was as inevitable as Sunday following Saturday.
Thats not bad luck. Its not him being usurped by those behind the scenes. Its bad management.
[/quote]
Yes Angus was sold but he didn't have any if that money to spend on a replacement. He still only had the same budget as beforehand to work with. A's for Racchi, his wage Bill was the same as the cost of three of the current squad. There has been no money for him. He's working with his hands tied. Who do you expect him to sign ? And don't forget that even loan signings have to be paid so your reliant on the parent club cutting a deal and paying a proportion of it.
[/quote]Mcdonalds wages would have been freed up when he left. He would have been one of the higher earners. The club also said that KN would have had a slightly increased budget this season as there were not as many outgoings (Hargreaves' gardening leave eg) as there were last season. Racchi was not on good money last season and I will be very surprised if Lathrope is on much,if any, less.
I know he is working with his hands tied, as are most managers. Especially at lower levels. However, you are comparing that to wage bills from past seasons that are simply light years away from ever being plausible again. That doesn't excuse everything though and tbh, there is not much of an argument to say that he has used what he has available all that well.
You do realise that your take on the metaphor doesn't work at all with the 'action for action's sake' argument, right? :}forevertufc wrote: ↑25 Jan 2017, 11:54 Or maybe, the ship owners should not have employed a captain who fails to check the shipping forecast, so gaining the knowledge of the impending storm so he could sail around it, or take the required shelter. Maybe the ship owners should remove this captain, and replace him with someone who would think to check the shipping forecast, so avoiding their ship being placed in danger, in the future.
Better to be proactive, than reactive
The main bulk of my post above, was largely meant with my tongue, firmly placed in my cheek I do not blame Nicho entirely for our teams current position, but, our current team is under performing, I've said for weeks now they look mentally shot to sh@t . I'm not alone in thinking, this, lets get down to the gym where everyone's a winner, fitness regime is root cause.
The last bit of my post was aimed at the club. Once again we find ourselves as a football club reacting to a problem, season on season, board after board, TUFC a club making the same mistakes time and time again, always reacting, rather doing what needs to be done in the first place, it's why more and more diehard fans, some I know personably who went home and away are walking away from the club.
I do not blame Nicho entirely for our teams current position, but, our current team is under performing, I've said for weeks now they look mentally shot to sh@t . I'm not alone in thinking, this, lets get down to the gym where everyone's a winner, fitness regime is root cause.The last bit of my post was aimed at the club. Once again we find ourselves as a football club reacting to a problem, season on season, board after board, TUFC a club making the same mistakes time and time again, always reacting, rather doing what needs to be done in the first place, it's why more and more diehard fans, some I know personably who went home and away are walking away from the club.
Formerly known as forevertufc
No post this week yellowblackwhite?
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yellowblackwhite
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my post was based upon every game since the start of the season and my personal judgement alone... so after a 3-1 win in which most would agree we had an element of luck on our side I am of no change in view.... give it 5 games and then we can all judge.
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