Gates of 15,000 at Plainmoor in 1957/58?

teignmouth54 · Post by **teignmouth54** » 27 Mar 2017, 17:58

Sixty years ago Torquay United finished the season as runners up to Ipswich Town on goal average, thus missing out on promotion to the old second division.

As most of you will know, Torquay needed to beat Crystal Palace at Selhurst Park in the final match of the season but could only manage a 1-1 draw. On the same evning the reserves hosted a Western League match against Weymouth and I attach a copy of the programme.

On page 3, Colin C Crocker suggests it is not a lot to ask for gates of 15,000 at Plainmoor the following season, provided we are in division two.

The following sentence reads "Many of you owe a great deal to the name of Torquay United - the greatest advertising value any town can have for nothing."

How times have changed and perhaps the local council should take note when discussing the possible sale of the freehold of Plainmoor!

S4fedr1ve · Post by **S4fedr1ve** » 27 Mar 2017, 18:16

I can't go back quite that far but can remember gates of 4000 plus regularly.And a Bristol rovers fan giving me a hard time about how small these gates are.

Yes times have certainly changed.

Zippy · Post by **Zippy** » 27 Mar 2017, 19:08

I can go back to the 1960s, decent crowds then , 6,000/7000 regular in those days, 14,000 at home to the gargs.

SenorDingDong · Post by **SenorDingDong** » 27 Mar 2017, 20:35

Those were the days when football was far more affordable to attend as the maximum wage hadn't been challenged and the commercialisation of football was far less developed. Tickets were reasonably priced and smaller teams could feasibly do much better based upon a strong manager with contacts due to the vastly smaller differential in wages which added to the gate due to success. There was also less competition from entertainment such as computer games, satellite tv, football matches being screened at every hour of the day and the internet thus a Saturday afternoon at the football was more attractive and still the primary way of getting your football fix as opposed to TV these days. The major club teams while still popular across the country hadn't saturated the young to the extent that you had more Manchester United fans in Torquay than Torquay United fans thanks to TV exposure. Finally the Torbay area, while having decline from it's peak in the late Victoria/early Edwardian era, was still a far more prosperous area than today - cheap foreign package holidays had yet to really hit the masses and knock the bottom out of the British seaside, thus there was far more expendable money in the area for entertainment like football.

All in all a very different era.

gullpower · Post by **gullpower** » 27 Mar 2017, 21:27

My dad and grandad went up on the train to the Crystal Palace game and often spoke about their disappointment.

At the time goal average (goals scored divided by goals conceded) was used rather than goal difference. Torquay's goal average after the last game was 1.39 and Ipswich's 1.87! What might have been

gateman49 · Post by **gateman49** » 27 Mar 2017, 22:09

Oh, if only those times could come back, in 1966/7 we averaged over 7,000 and in the next season that rose to over 9,000. Yes, they are averages over the whole of those seasons.

There were two factors, we were playing exciting football week in week out and there was a national feel good factor after we won the World Cup in the summer of '66.

Plainmoor78 · Post by **Plainmoor78** » 27 Mar 2017, 22:31

gullpower wrote: ↑27 Mar 2017, 21:27 My dad and grandad went up on the train to the Crystal Palace game and often spoke about their disappointment.

At the time goal average (goals scored divided by goals conceded) was used rather than goal difference. Torquay's goal average after the last game was 1.39 and Ipswich's 1.87! What might have been

Even if goal difference had been used Ipswich would still have gone up. Ipswich's for and against total was 101-54, ours was 89-64. Ipswich had +22 better goal difference then us.

merse btpir · Post by **merse btpir** » 27 Mar 2017, 22:37

We were also well worth watching; had the intelligence to switch matches to Saturday nights in order to attract the local football market and Torquay was a vibrant and fun place to be in those days.

How different now with wholesale derision for the club amongst a very different local footballing fraternity in the local leagues; different times, different people and different mentality. Today's Torquay is a run down sad parody of the place that was once rocking and fun to go out in on a Saturday night.

We didn't unfavourably compare the standards of Third Division footballers with First Division ones because we weren't as bloody stupid as those today who do so driven by a modern day mentality that is Sky Sports and Computer Game orientated. We didn't expect to see Bobby Charlton running out at Plainmoor until he was old and knackered and did so for Preston North End.

Most of those who play in the parks and reckon they are better than the pro's on view at Plainmoor today couldn't trap a bag of shopping to be honest and would be better put to use filling one on a Saturday afternoon than making an arse of themselves at KGV or Clennon Valley.

As I said Andrew; different times, different people.

Post by **Southampton Gull** » 27 Mar 2017, 23:03

If only my Uncle, Pete "Chino" Collins was among the modern generation of local players sticking to playing local football these days. A few hundred a week for turning out for the Gulls would have solved our scoring problems. There were plenty more like him when I was watching the SDL all those years ago. As you say, local parks players these days are seemingly well below the standards I remember.

I went to take a look at a local player last week, scoring goals for fun but I fancied my chances against the defenders he was up against. No way could I see him succeeding at even a moderately higher level, no first touch, no composure but a sweet left foot.

Glostergull · Post by **Glostergull** » 28 Mar 2017, 03:41

viewing your comments on here about local league players who think they are better than they really are reminds me of my so called holiday in Dartmouth last August. I brought a family of 5 down with me and fully intended to take the boys to see our match at Plainmoor with WBA.
I was disturbed to hear the 15 year old son talking about football on the way down. he is with Gloucester city Academy and was telling me how good he was. his statement was I could walk into the United Team. the manager should put me in if I go. I thought what an arrogant jumped up little ***** you sound son. I doubt you could be worth tying Nicho's boots less playing for united against Premiership stars. I wonder what the players would have thought. i nearly told the manager of Gloucester city that he had a supposed premier league star in his academy. it was made the funnier because we were next to a family from London all West Ham fans and they always had a ball out for a kick about on the grass and the 17 year old girl played for a well known ladies team and she rang rings around him, I did laugh to myself.
the former kit manager of Clevedon Town was telling me how players there were on part time contracts of £500 a week and cared more about their hairdo and what the girls thought of them than practicing football. how times have changed from the days when I also saw 9 to 14 thousand cram into Plainmoor on a Saturday evening. i loved them evening kick offs.

merse btpir · Post by **merse btpir** » 28 Mar 2017, 08:19

Southampton Gull wrote: ↑27 Mar 2017, 23:03 If only my Uncle, Pete "Chino" Collins was among the modern generation of local players sticking to playing local football these days.

I once got sent off ( a very hard thing to 'achieve' in those days) following an altercation with Chino at Longcross in which I came off second best to the 'big lump' ~ I think he followed me too but I wasn't either hanging around or turning around for that matter as self preservation was the optimum aim of the game then!

BernardB · Post by **BernardB** » 28 Mar 2017, 08:58

I attended the Weymouth match as a 15-year-old. There was a very large crowd, mostly to hear updates from Crystal Palace via the PA system. There was very little optimism about the outcome. Although United (no "Gulls" then!) were unbeaten at home that season, our away record was poor - only five wins as I recall. Nevertheless it was a great time to be a supporter. There was no crowd segregation and visitors were welcomed with friendly banter, as were Torquay fans at away matches. Do I miss those days? Not half!

wivelgull · Post by **wivelgull** » 28 Mar 2017, 09:49

Ah!....Bisto...Colin Bettany, Alan Smith, Ernie Pym, George Northcott - and that's just the Reserves!

Post by **Southampton Gull** » 28 Mar 2017, 10:06

merse btpir wrote: ↑28 Mar 2017, 08:19 I once got sent off ( a very hard thing to 'achieve' in those days) following an altercation with Chino at Longcross in which I came off second best to the 'big lump' ~ I think he followed me too but I wasn't either hanging around or turning around for that matter as self preservation was the optimum aim of the game then!

Must be something in the family DNA of the respective families

stefano · Post by **stefano** » 28 Mar 2017, 10:06

The result Crystal Palace 1 Torquay United 1 had wider implications than one may think.

It resulted in England winning the World Cup!!!!

Whilst Torquay were being held at Palace, Ipswich Town under manager Alf Ramsey won 2-0 at Southampton, thus pipping Torquay on goal average.

Five years later Ipswich Town were the English Football League Champions, and taking Ipswich from the 3rd tier to be champions of England saw Alf Ramsey appointed manager of England.

The rest, as they say, is history!

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