Let's have the Facts ONLY please.

Mo Gull · Post by **Mo Gull** » 28 Mar 2017, 09:01

To protest the potential building of a Tesco superstore in my old town, the good people of Newport Pagnell held a mock funeral for the death of the high street (as Tesco would put most other shops out of business). It got a lot of media attention locally, with a coffin and mourners dressed in black in procession.

A sea of black silent supporters on a match day would certainly get some attention. You could even hold a minutes silence during the match in respect to the death of the club. Yellow and Blue reefs by the pitch...

Neal · Post by **Neal** » 28 Mar 2017, 09:07

Im not having a dig, before one of you jump down me throat.

But there are really no facts, so no point in this thread, or the thread should die after a couple of posts.

Even Merse post above is not all fact. We only know The club has been bought by Osbourne. I would guess ( not a fact so probably shouldn't post it on here

) that Osbourne doesn't know exactly what he will do either. He might have several options for all we know. Or it could be one mighty big joke, and he is winding us all up and having a right ole laugh! And we are all getting upset for no reason at all, what a windup that would be.

Forums are for debate, disagreement, conjecture, opinion, hypothesizing, and a bit of fun and entertainment. And if we are honest a little wind up know and again. And letting off steam. Facts VERY few of those on here, and never has been. I have never stated a fact, because I don't know any

Terry Henry · Post by **Terry Henry** » 28 Mar 2017, 09:32

Neal, I posted two links to facts, which I think relate to our predicament; one about Torbay's finances, and one about how a 2000 strong objection didn't stop planning going ahead in Torquay. That is what we're up against. It's about finances, pure and simple, and chanting/protesting to GI is aiming at the wrong group of people, in my humble opinion. Yes, it lets us vent and I agree GI are bastards, but I don't think it'll get us anywhere.

What I think is needed is probably impossible for us to generate accurately. We need a statement/business plan which shows how much cash Torquay Utd brings into the Bay in order to persuade the powers that be (I don't mean GI; I mean the Mayor/Council) that the club is important to the local economy. We need to show that the Club generates enough to make it worthwhile now; not in 5 years time, as it's now the Council are struggling for cash. Although, sadly, I wonder if any statement will show that what comes into the Bay due to football is "not very much". That is what we're up against, which is all in the backdrop of Torbay needing to build more houses (another fact, albeit not everyone would agree with this premise).

One other fact we know about, which hopefully is still in our favour, is the covenant on the land. But we also know that these things can be overturned.

kevgull · Post by **kevgull** » 28 Mar 2017, 09:49

Fact

Matchday football is currently the biggest single community gathering event it the Bay.

When TUFC is successful, so are the local businesses that accommodate both local and away fans.
You hear that most away fans seem to use the match as an excuse for a full weekend away, taking in other events or sites along the coast.

Protecting TUFC future is directly related to the well being of the local community, its businesses and its visitors.

Post by **Southampton Gull** » 28 Mar 2017, 10:05

kevgull wrote: ↑28 Mar 2017, 09:49 Fact

Matchday football is currently the biggest single community gathering event it the Bay.

When TUFC is successful, so are the local businesses that accommodate both local and away fans.
You hear that most away fans seem to use the match as an excuse for a full weekend away, taking in other events or sites along the coast.

Protecting TUFC future is directly related to the well being of the local community, its businesses and its visitors.

That's a good point. I'm sure plenty of local Hoteliers would prefer to keep the football club because of the revenue it brings in during their quiet winter months. Perhaps the locals could approach a few to get them onside?

kevgull · Post by **kevgull** » 28 Mar 2017, 10:21

Southampton Gull wrote: ↑28 Mar 2017, 10:05 That's a good point. I'm sure plenty of local Hoteliers would prefer to keep the football club because of the revenue it brings in during their quiet winter months. Perhaps the locals could approach a few to get them onside?

Hoteliers, Restauranteers, Publicans, Local Shop owners, Supermarkets ect.

I'm sure that most of the owners of the above would apply a little pressure, should the opportunity arise.

Terry Henry · Post by **Terry Henry** » 28 Mar 2017, 10:21

Kev, how do we (can we?) put a figure on that? Also, playing Devil's Advocate, if a couple hundred away fans stay over once a fortnight, does that generate enough? I think we need figures, but I don't know how to get them.

kevgull · Post by **kevgull** » 28 Mar 2017, 10:34

Terry Henry wrote: ↑28 Mar 2017, 10:21 Kev, how do we (can we?) put a figure on that? Also, playing Devil's Advocate, if a couple hundred away fans stay over once a fortnight, does that generate enough? I think we need figures, but I don't know how to get them.

Agree Terry it's not a tangible figure and it would be almost impossible for us to determine accurately.
However I would hazard a guess that local businesses will be able to confirm the upturn in local trade when TUFC are playing at home, especially when we are doing well.

Locals, Exiles, Away Fans and Guests will all spend money on a matchday, that's a fact.
The only thing that's it arguable is the amount.

Soupdragon · Post by **Soupdragon** » 28 Mar 2017, 10:54

Well, here's a fact. The mayor will be guided in his decision by the report being prepared by Kevin Mowatt, executive head of business services at Torbay Council (no, not an elected person, but a senior member of staff). So, to influence the mayor, you probably need to influence Mr Mowatt in the first place to be certain that his report reflects accurately what the community, and more importantly, the TUFC community, thinks. Mr Mowatt's report is not yet completed, so there is your first opportunity.

Secondly, the mayor will, hopefully, also be influenced by what his 'cabinet' advise (his executive lead members; elected people). While they are not paid to make decisions (their allowances reflect the fact that they are simply advisory; the allowances would be higher should they be actual decision-makers. In this council, the mayor is the ultimate decision maker), no doubt some of them will have strong opinions on this matter. If not, they need to be encouraged to do so, in our favour. Of that 'cabinet', Cllr Parrott is the only one who has unequivocally stated his position (in our favour). So these are also people we should be seeking to influence. Of these, significant is Cllr Haddock, who is the deputy mayor [edited to correct: Cllr Haddock is the Executive Lead for Business, hence the next most relevant in this case, after the mayor. He's not deputy, Cllr Mills is. Sorry] and arguably has the mayor's ear more than the others.

It may be that, at the PDDG (which is essentially a 'cabinet 'meeting held in public with other councillors, council staff members, and members of the public permitted to speak and contribute) the mayor will refer the matter to full council for a decision. We know that all the Lib Dems are on our side, so it's possible that we will need to influence the rest of the councillors, all Tories plus three in Brixham.

It is also a fact that the Spires College has both a financial and operational interest in the ground, having paid for a large proportion of the 'new' stand and using it on a daily basis. Do we know what their headteacher thinks? We need her on our side.

And didn't the FA also contribute to the building of the stand via a substantial grant? What are the terms of that? Does it or any part of it have to be repaid under these circumstances? What do they think?

Lastly, for now, the bowls club has recently signed a lease extension with the Council. What is their position on this? Are they happy to be 'bought out' by GI or not?

So: Mr Mowatt, mayor, executive leads, school, FA, bowls club, rest of councillors, in that order.

Whatever 'good ideas' you think GI might come up with in favour of a sale/transfer, make sure you counter them.

I shall resume my own letter writing campaign this afternoon.

Richinns · Post by **Richinns** » 28 Mar 2017, 11:06

Soupdragon wrote: ↑28 Mar 2017, 10:54 Well, here's a fact. The mayor will be guided in his decision by the report being prepared by Kevin Mowatt, executive head of business services at Torbay Council (no, not an elected person, but a senior member of staff). So, to influence the mayor, you probably need to influence Mr Mowatt in the first place to be certain that his report reflects accurately what the community, and more importantly, the TUFC community, thinks. Mr Mowatt's report is not yet completed, so there is your first opportunity.

Secondly, the mayor will, hopefully, also be influenced by what his 'cabinet' advise (his executive lead members; elected people). While they are not paid to make decisions (their allowances reflect the fact that they are simply advisory; the allowances would be higher should they be actual decision-makers. In this council, the mayor is the ultimate decision maker), no doubt some of them will have strong opinions on this matter. If not, they need to be encouraged to do so, in our favour. Of that 'cabinet', Cllr Parrott is the only one who has unequivocally stated his position (in our favour). So these are also people we should be seeking to influence. Of these, significant is Cllr Haddock, who is the deputy mayor and arguably has the mayor's ear more than the others.

It may be that, at the PDDG (which is essentially a 'cabinet 'meeting held in public with other councillors, council staff members, and members of the public permitted to speak and contribute) the mayor will refer the matter to full council for a decision. We know that all the Lib Dems are on our side, so it's possible that we will need to influence the rest of the councillors, all Tories plus three in Brixham.

It is also a fact that the Spires College has both a financial and operational interest in the ground, having paid for a large proportion of the 'new' stand and using it on a daily basis. Do we know what their headteacher thinks? We need her on our side.

And didn't the FA also contribute to the building of the stand via a substantial grant? What are the terms of that? Does it or any part of it have to be repaid under these circumstances? What do they think?

Lastly, for now, the bowls club has recently signed a lease extension with the Council. What is their position on this? Are they happy to be 'bought out' by GI or not?

So: Mr Mowatt, mayor, executive leads, school, FA, bowls club, rest of councillors, in that order.

Whatever 'good ideas' you think GI might come up with in favour of a sale/transfer, make sure you counter them.

I shall resume my own letter writing campaign this afternoon.

Good stuff soupdragon

Kevin Mowat's email address is [email protected]

For the Mayor's (Gordon Oliver) it is [email protected] and Councillor Bye's (former Mayor and TUFC fan) email address is [email protected]

I think as many representations as possible are key at this point.

kevgull · Post by **kevgull** » 28 Mar 2017, 11:14

Soupdragon wrote: ↑28 Mar 2017, 10:54 Well, here's a fact. The mayor will be guided in his decision by the report being prepared by Kevin Mowatt, executive head of business services at Torbay Council (no, not an elected person, but a senior member of staff). So, to influence the mayor, you probably need to influence Mr Mowatt in the first place to be certain that his report reflects accurately what the community, and more importantly, the TUFC community, thinks. Mr Mowatt's report is not yet completed, so there is your first opportunity.

Secondly, the mayor will, hopefully, also be influenced by what his 'cabinet' advise (his executive lead members; elected people). While they are not paid to make decisions (their allowances reflect the fact that they are simply advisory; the allowances would be higher should they be actual decision-makers. In this council, the mayor is the ultimate decision maker), no doubt some of them will have strong opinions on this matter. If not, they need to be encouraged to do so, in our favour. Of that 'cabinet', Cllr Parrott is the only one who has unequivocally stated his position (in our favour). So these are also people we should be seeking to influence. Of these, significant is Cllr Haddock, who is the deputy mayor and arguably has the mayor's ear more than the others.

It may be that, at the PDDG (which is essentially a 'cabinet 'meeting held in public with other councillors, council staff members, and members of the public permitted to speak and contribute) the mayor will refer the matter to full council for a decision. We know that all the Lib Dems are on our side, so it's possible that we will need to influence the rest of the councillors, all Tories plus three in Brixham.

It is also a fact that the Spires College has both a financial and operational interest in the ground, having paid for a large proportion of the 'new' stand and using it on a daily basis. Do we know what their headteacher thinks? We need her on our side.

And didn't the FA also contribute to the building of the stand via a substantial grant? What are the terms of that? Does it or any part of it have to be repaid under these circumstances? What do they think?

Lastly, for now, the bowls club has recently signed a lease extension with the Council. What is their position on this? Are they happy to be 'bought out' by GI or not?

So: Mr Mowatt, mayor, executive leads, school, FA, bowls club, rest of councillors, in that order.

Whatever 'good ideas' you think GI might come up with in favour of a sale/transfer, make sure you counter them.

I shall resume my own letter writing campaign this afternoon.

I hope that is goes without saying that if you were to contact the above, it would be informative and heartfelt. Abusive emails would not help our cause.

Richinns · Post by **Richinns** » 28 Mar 2017, 11:19

Richinns wrote: ↑28 Mar 2017, 11:06 Good stuff soupdragon

Kevin Mowat's email address is [email protected]

For the Mayor's (Gordon Oliver) it is [email protected] and Councillor Bye's (former Mayor and TUFC fan) email address is [email protected]

I think as many representations as possible are key at this point.

Lloyder5 · Post by **Lloyder5** » 28 Mar 2017, 12:11

email sent.

kevgull · Post by **kevgull** » 28 Mar 2017, 12:29

Fact ( ok most problems true)

If I were a Sponsor of TUFC, with my company's name on a Bill Board, on would not wish to receive Emails stating the fans disapproval of how business is being conducted at Plainmoor presently.

I definitely would not want the people in the Bay to start boycotting my business otherwise I would have something to say to Osborne or my local councillor.

standupsitdown · Post by **standupsitdown** » 28 Mar 2017, 13:31

The football club does generate money for the town but it’s hard to quantify.
A Torquay hotel is getting the best part of £200 from my wife & I coming down for the game on Saturday.
I’m sure they’ll be a few Chester fans staying over.
I stayed at a small hotel by the ground when we played Bristol Rovers once and it was full with football fans.

Grant for the bench probably came from the Football Foundation. I don’t suppose they’ll be too chuffed if it’s knocked down so soon but doubt the club would have to repay it.

I’ve had an email from TUST who do seem to have a lot in hand.

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