Brucie V Dave - This time its personal!! ;)

[Gullscorer]

"the more booze people drink the more they're going to need a toilet"
Where there's a will(y) there's a way! :~D

Phew.. that's a relief. Was hoping you'd say that..

[torregull]

They pulled their budget in once it was apparent they were not going to make the play-offs and don't worry, your point isn't lost on me as I've used it myself in conversation with locals around here BUT don't for one minute think the gap between the clubs is a couple of draws instead of wins for them. They're a clever proactive club and I wish I could tell fans of theirs that they need to follow the lead of the club I've loved for nearly 50 years, unfortunately that would get me laughed out of the room. Two of my grandchildren have been asked along there out of the blue with no previous connection to them other than myself and that kind of thing impresses parents. They're invited to a series of trials through the summer with offers of free tickets to matchdays and as mentioned previously and more importantly, there's a voucher for children accompanied by adults to a meal of burger & chips in the clubhouse where the adults will most likely buy a drink and something to eat too. It's not rocket science...................unless you're a stubborn yokel who refuses to move with the times. Previous board members, not you, Terry

Good to see they're encouraging healthy eating habits!

[brucie]

Finishing 15th in this league is nothing to crow about. Saying they "pulled their budget in" because they couldn't make the play offs just sounds like a weak excuse to me.

Treating your grandkids to burger and chips is all very well - I don't doubt that what you say about their off field structure. On the pitch though they are far from getting right. They have paid big money to has beens like Constable and Midson since being promoted and it clearly hasn't paid off.

You were telling us what a great manager they had "procured" in Martin Allen - well that worked out well didn't it. You can't deny they were bloody appalling this season. Christ they were lower down the form table than us mid season when they lost about 100 games on the trot.

Finishing below the likes of Gateshead, Bromley, Boreham Wood, and Maidstone is a piss poor return on their investment. There is no point in making comparisons with us either. We have been run by a bunch of inept fools last season and we are now being run by a bunch of shysters.

They are bankrolled by someone with money - so its fairly obvious why our attendances have dropped to an all time low.

[merse btpir]

Eastleigh have agreed to sign Leyton Orient striker Paul McCallum ~ who was once on loan at Plainmoor ~ on a two-year contract.......

Now 23, the former West Ham forward has had loan spells with Portsmouth and Hearts, among others, and will officially join Eastleigh on 1st July.
He was Orient's top scorer in League Two this season with 12 goals in 33 appearances in all competitions but for all that earned the nick-name 'sicknote' leading to conjecture in East London that Eastleigh must have a very nice treatment room!

[Southampton Gull]

Finishing 15th in this league is nothing to crow about. Saying they "pulled their budget in" because they couldn't make the play offs just sounds like a weak excuse to me.

Treating your grandkids to burger and chips is all very well - I don't doubt that what you say about their off field structure. On the pitch though they are far from getting right. They have paid big money to has beens like Constable and Midson since being promoted and it clearly hasn't paid off.

You were telling us what a great manager they had "procured" in Martin Allen - well that worked out well didn't it. You can't deny they were bloody appalling this season. Christ they were lower down the form table than us mid season when they lost about 100 games on the trot.

Finishing below the likes of Gateshead, Bromley, Boreham Wood, and Maidstone is a piss poor return on their investment. There is no point in making comparisons with us either. We have been run by a bunch of inept fools last season and we are now being run by a bunch of shysters.

They are bankrolled by someone with money - so its fairly obvious why our attendances have dropped to an all time low.

Who is crowing about their finishing position ? As usual you miss the point entirely. We're so shit you were contemplating going to your first game in months just to celebrate not getting relegated.

Hill, Allen etc etc v Knill, Hargreaves and Nicholson??

Decent FA Cup run, crowds increasing season on season. Yes really appalling. Get your head out of your arse and start looking at how other clubs are building sound football clubs while we see ours dismantled. Fans as well as non fans being contacted and encouraged to use the facilities just as my grandchildren were, how my friends son was. He now buys a season ticket for him and his sons at Eastleigh instead of St Mary's. There's evidence all around me as to how vibrant they are but you choose to mock their finishing position. You're an idiot.

[brucie]

I'm not sure whether you support Eastleigh or Torquay. You conveniently choose to ignore that they are still bankrolled by an owner who ploughs substantial amounts into their club.

As such it is impossible to make a comparison with us because we are being run by numptys and could hardly fill a subs bench this season. I don't understand the comparison you make between the managers at all. Hill got the sack and Allen has been hopeless. They finished four points above us with an equal goal difference of -7. I don't see how that makes them any better than us on the field at all.

In fact you might argue that Nicholson has done a better job than Hill or Allen on the resources he has at his disposal. In spite of what you say Eastleigh were a laughing stock at times this season their form was that bad.

Potentially our crowds could be on a par with theirs because our crowd of 4000 at the last game just shows that to be the case. If Eastleigh were run by Dave Phillips, Clarke Osborne and co I wonder what their crowds would be then - probably something less than a 1000 I guess.

Its not a question of mocking their league position - they have more resources than us in terms of budget etc etc and have failed spectacularly this season. There isn't anything idiotic about that at all. In January and February this year they managed a total of ZERO wins. They are obviously doing something wrong.

Paying big money to donkeys who would be better employed trundling up and down Paignton beach just goes to show that it isn't a route to success. Reid, Strevens, Tubbs, McAllister, Constable - all over the hill, just backed up by their results on the field.

[yellowforever]

I'm not sure whether you support Eastleigh or Torquay. You conveniently choose to ignore that they are still bankrolled by an owner who ploughs substantial amounts into their club.

As such it is impossible to make a comparison with us because we are being run by numptys and could hardly fill a subs bench this season. I don't understand the comparison you make between the managers at all. Hill got the sack and Allen has been hopeless. They finished four points above us with an equal goal difference of -7. I don't see how that makes them any better than us on the field at all.

In fact you might argue that Nicholson has done a better job than Hill or Allen on the resources he has at his disposal. In spite of what you say Eastleigh were a laughing stock at times this season their form was that bad.

Potentially our crowds could be on a par with theirs because our crowd of 4000 at the last game just shows that to be the case. If Eastleigh were run by Dave Phillips, Clarke Osborne and co I wonder what their crowds would be then - probably something less than a 1000 I guess.

Its not a question of mocking their league position - they have more resources than us in terms of budget etc etc and have failed spectacularly this season. There isn't anything idiotic about that at all. In January and February this year they managed a total of ZERO wins. They are obviously doing something wrong.

Paying big money to donkeys who would be better employed trundling up and down Paignton beach just goes to show that it isn't a route to success. Reid, Strevens, Tubbs, McAllister, Constable - all over the hill, just backed up by their results on the field.

[Southampton Gull]

Eastleigh a laughing stock? You really are an idiot.

We had a lottery winner pumping in money to an established professional club and took 2 seasons to even scrape our way up through the play offs and then what? Come on Einstein, what did we do that makes you think as a Torquay fan (supposedly) you have any moral high ground over clubs like Eastleigh? There are others, I use them as my example because I witness first hand how proactive they are and just how committed to taking the club forward they are. What I want is the same kind of ingenuity and exploration of ideas by my club. Whenever I've got to Plainmoor before 11am the place is dead. Totally the opposite at Eastleigh and similarly ambitious clubs. They'll be a League club well before we regain that status. It's how they've come this far, they reach a higher level and consolidate on and off the pitch before looking to progress. Just before our play off final versus Cambridge their rivals were Histon over the previous few years. That's the difference between a club reaching heights on money alone and one that consolidates along the way. Eastleigh took longer to establish themselves at National League level but they now have facilities and support to stay there.

I told you a year ago they would leave us behind in a number of areas but all you can come up with is their league position which as I've already said is the end result of pulling in the budget for another push next season. Meanwhile they're improving the facilities again already and all this while the place is brimming with customers and potential future supporters.

We're really matching them right now aren't we? Only a fool would take any kind of satisfaction from the notion that they're underperforming on the pitch. When they get that bit right, and they will, playing them in a league match again will just be a dream for us.

[Plainmoor78]

Eastleigh a laughing stock? You really are an idiot.

We had a lottery winner pumping in money to an established professional club and took 2 seasons to even scrape our way up through the play offs and then what? Come on Einstein, what did we do that makes you think as a Torquay fan (supposedly) you have any moral high ground over clubs like Eastleigh? There are others, I use them as my example because I witness first hand how proactive they are and just how committed to taking the club forward they are. What I want is the same kind of ingenuity and exploration of ideas by my club. Whenever I've got to Plainmoor before 11am the place is dead. Totally the opposite at Eastleigh and similarly ambitious clubs. They'll be a League club well before we regain that status. It's how they've come this far, they reach a higher level and consolidate on and off the pitch before looking to progress. Just before our play off final versus Cambridge their rivals were Histon over the previous few years. That's the difference between a club reaching heights on money alone and one that consolidates along the way. Eastleigh took longer to establish themselves at National League level but they now have facilities and support to stay there.

I told you a year ago they would leave us behind in a number of areas but all you can come up with is their league position which as I've already said is the end result of pulling in the budget for another push next season. Meanwhile they're improving the facilities again already and all this while the place is brimming with customers and potential future supporters.

We're really matching them right now aren't we? Only a fool would take any kind of satisfaction from the notion that they're underperforming on the pitch. When they get that bit right, and they will, playing them in a league match again will just be a dream for us.

[torq2u]

[brucie]

I'm not taking any satisfaction from their league position - I really couldn't care less. According to you then they have given up at Christmas (because they couldn't get in the play offs) and that's why they lost all their matches for two months - and you say I'm an idiot, christ have you had a frontal lobotomy or something.

You cannot grasp that any comparison between the clubs is completely pointless whilst one is bankrolled by a wealthy owner and the other by an owner who wants to sell the ground.

What exactly do you expect to see at Plainmoor before 11am in the morning? gnome racing or girl guides tag rugby?

Ultimately it all comes down to money. Would Forest Green be where they are without Vince, Or would Eastleigh be where they are without their insurance magnate?

No of course not - its highly likely that Eastleigh (or anyone else with money for that matter) will be a league club before us. That's stating the bleeding obvious when we are run by dickheads.

[merse btpir]

Would Forest Green be where they are without Vince, Or would Eastleigh be where they are without their insurance magnate? No of course not - its highly likely that Eastleigh (or anyone else with money for that matter) will be a league club before us. That's stating the bleeding obvious when we are run by dickheads.

This is a diversion from the reality of dragging Torquay United into a state of sustainability whereby they maximise their resources, facilities and manpower whether they are a Football League, National League or any other league club.

What the example of Eastleigh shows is that it is not just the tantalising possibility of making it up to the next level that is increasing their patronage from within the community; it is their ethos and business practices. It's far more realistic to use Eastleigh as an example of what to aspire to than Forest Green Rovers. I don't profess to know to what extent FGR have engaged themselves with the community of Nailsworth where they are located and to a greater extent Stroud which is the bureaucratic area to which they belong; and I do know that if you walk around Eastleigh looking for the football club you won't find it because it is located adjacent to Southampton Parkway, airport and university sports facilities........I got to know of their ground a few years ago accompanying my son to matches at the old Portsmouth training ground (The Wellington) right across the road from Silverlake.

Take it from me, Eastleigh do not pick up 'walk up'' patronage where they are situated and thus have to make a conscious effort to attract people there out of match time and early on matchdays.

I see enough evidence from my travels around the 'lesser' football scene to recognise there is a business plan whereby a club can be sustainable in whatever level of the game they exist if they prioritise customer satisfaction with the product rather than with the level at which the games are played at.......indeed a club that habitually punches hard at non league level is easier to market than one which regularly struggles in the English Football League.

Eastleigh haven't started their push up the footballing pyramid with the advantage of a compact and nicely constructed stadium like Plainmoor. There's has been little more than a 'pop-up' stadium growing and taking shape as they go. Have their gates declined along with the lack of success of the team during this last season? Well on Boxing Day they got 2,213 to watch them play Boreham Wood who we can safely assume brought very little support; midway through February 2,345 came in to watch them play Macclesfield (another club with a minimal away following) even though they hadn't won a single game in between those two fixtures and at the end of the season they still managed to get 1,830 for a Monday night game against Bromley ~ another club with hardly an away following to take seriously.......all gates that Torquay United would have been more than happy with and I have deliberately picked out three relatively 'unnattractive' matches for this example.

Dave is right; Eastleigh have overtaken Torquay United in the levels of support they are attracting even though as things stand at the moment Plainmoor knocks the Silverlake into a cocked hat as regards a place to go and watch football and they have done that because they are committed to it and have worked at it!


Eastleigh's 'pop-up' stadium: The stand at the far end came from the London Olympics, the far side from Exeter Chiefs & the one on the left off the back of a lorry ~ well a ubiquitous portable stand

[Gullscorer]

...... a club that habitually punches hard is easier to market than one which regularly struggles, whatever the League.

Fixed that for you.. :~D

Seriously though, I'm sure you're right. Any team doing well in a lower league will be easier to market than one doing badly in the league above.

[brucie]

Yes that's a fair point which I was thinking myself actually. They did get respectable crowds even though their form was atrocious at the time. Their ground is akin to a shithole though compared to ours.

I'm not arguing that their crowds have improved, and I'm not arguing that their crowds have overtaken ours. Whether you think that a crowd of 2200 for a boxing day fixture is anything to shout about I'm not so sure (even though the away support was probably zilch)

The increase in their attendances over ours though has probably more to do with the management of our club than anything else. Clearly we will be lucky to attract 1500 next season if we get served up more of the same, which judging by our current ownership seems pretty likely.

Never mind Eastleigh - Boreham Wood and Solihull will be overtaking us in terms of attendances the way we are going.

[Southampton Gull]

What I expect to see at any club early on a matchday morning is a hive of activity and staff engaging the people attracted to the club through various off-field activities. At 8am the Silverlake is rammed with people and that's the difference and why I "bang on about Eastleigh". I can see it regularly enough to know how hard they work to build on what they have. The money man you are so keen to use to belittle them is just the latest in a long line stretching back 30 years and because of how progressive they are there is a queue of people wanting to get involved with them. If the current guy walks away like others before him, including Paul Doswell, there will be someone ready willing and able to carry on the good work.

The point you continually choose to ignore is they are progressive, they grow into their new status whenever promoted unlike the pub teams you love to associate them with. When was the last time you felt like you supported a progressive club?

While the stadium is exactly as Merse describes it, the land has several 5 a side pitches in continual use and large car parks that give them space to expand the stadium as and when it's needed. It was just a warm up area when I was there.

I want us to be a club their board look to aspire to, not what we've had to endure for a long time now. I'm envious of the sheer commitment they have from so many people, I'm angry we've frittered away what little investment we had and I'm seriously pissed off that certain individuals used the club as their personal cash cow. No, I'm not an Eastleigh fan, I'm as committed a Torquay fan as anyone but that doesn't mean I can't clearly see our limitations in comparison to clubs you choose to mock.