TRIALISTS

[Flipper]

I managed a project last season which got six u16s into scholar pro' contracts for the next two years. I know the type of footballer that can achieve that and I know the difficulties they have when they graduate from those two years and then have to try and succeed under inferior coaches to those that have got them there.

Does it really make sense to invest in development and then throw the results at the wall because the guy in charge of the first team hasn't a ruddy clue? Who went up last season and did they play as you claim? No! Were they managed/coached by time served personnel rather than favoured old pro's of the fans/directors? Yes!


McGinty is playing at Torquay because he couldn't behave himself in the manner of a Manchester United player and got thrown out. If he retains the ability he had which got him there in the first place then hoofing the ruddy ball straight into touch at the kick-off isn't the way to go about it...and if Moore 'can't kick' then why tell him to instead of allowing him to play to his strengths?

Budget has nothing to do with footballing ethos. The clubs I mention earlier in the thread ~ Wingate & Finchley and Dulwich Hamlet ~ are two extremely low budget clubs and I saw Hamlet play two National League sides ~ Macclesfield and Braintree ~ off the park last season!

So you haven't played then !!!

I've coached boys that have gone onto pro clubs. 4 in the premier league and 1 in league 2, all apprentices and one who already has a pro contract. Doesn't mean I can coach a senior side at that level, nor do I presume to be able to do so.

Reference McGinty, if it was just attitude he would still be playing higher up the leagues than at Torquay. Someone would have taken the chance to turn him around. Having said that he has come on and I thought was very good towards the end of the season.

Are you inferring that they are inferior coaches ? Have you seen them coach ? and who are you to pass judgement. I suspect that you are a wannabee coach who couldn't make it as a player. Coaching boys isn't the same and once you have progressed the to a point where a club has shown interest they need to adapt to a different world of football. Some will shine and kick on while others will get found out and have to drop down to lower levels of the game. I suspect that Kevin & Robbie may well have done a decent enough job with the players Lincoln had.

I watched most of the home games last season and with the exception of a few sides most of the sides we struggled against were physical, so from my point of view I would prefer a side that can match those teams so that we have a comfortable season in this league. We can play pretty football when the club is stable and we can push on. Right now big and strong will suit me.

[arcadia]

The budget has a lot to do with it you have no idea unless you are at it first hand, also where your club is situated comes into it as well. I have scouted in the Conference for Rapheal Burke who was at Yeovil he was wanted by my club and money was a problem. You keep on about Sean McGinty hoofing the ball he played well last season and became a leader, come the end of the season. Sean could pick himself up and go up a standard.

The odds of having a big strong side stack in your favour at this standard.

[Ray Johnstone]

I agree with Flipper.

[Caldwellanddobson]

I bet I can wee higher than both Flipper AND Merse.

[Bloggy]

I see Toby Ajala is a sub for Bath City tonight!
Anyone know where GG is looking to play? His twitter feed said he was moving on and thanked the club, fans etc for his past season.

[merse btpir]

So you haven't played then !!!

You assume; that's good enough for you then. Never played professionally because never remotely good enough. I'm now almost 65 and practical coaching is way back when and that's why I agreed to fulfil the role I carried out last season after a period maintaining talent streams for a very good development centre of an academy indeed.

I don't claim to be able to coach at the level Nicholson and Herrera do but I sure know of scores who coach to very high standards more relevant to their budget and their level of competition with years more behind them. I believe that Herrera is a Eufa A licence holder although that might not be so; but the facts are that a manager who constantly pleads poverty of financial resources really has to be able to produce with the limited hand that he is dealt and can anybody really claim that #greatescapes 1&2 are really that?

If you're happy with that return then fine; if the public of Torbay continue to support the club at the level of app 1,800 per home game then fine.

I too thought McGinty's overall performance improved as the season wore on; but he is no 'National League virgin' ~ with over 40 appearances in the league for Aldershot before he was brought in and he really needs to replicate what Angus McDonald achieved if he is to justify his history in the game.

Are you inferring that they are inferior coaches ? you ask.....I am inferring that their end product isn't very good and I am entitled to aire my opinion as much as anyone else on a public forum. Have you seen them coach ?

You say you suspect that I am a wannabee coach who couldn't make it as a player....not so and I didn't claim to coach those boys last season either if you read properly. I said I managed the project ~ putting the infrastructure together, handing all the opportunities with professional clubs for the lads to go and try if they wished and being of the utmost support to the coach as I possibly could be. My only coaching of late has been with the very young ensuring they acquired the basic skills of receiving the ball, acquiring balance and good first touch with two footedness and to be honest I have only done that under sufferance as it is not really something I wanted to be doing at my age.

I agree; coaching boys isn't the same and once you have progressed them to a point where a club has shown interest they need to adapt to a different world of football as you say and then some more if they are to progress to remaining in the picture in the competitiveness of first team football..... Yes, some will shine and kick on while others will get found out and have to drop down to lower levels of the game. I couldn't agree more, but what I am promoting is the playing of a better style of football commensurate with where you can realistically recruit from.

You believe that is from the 'kick and rush' fraternity; I hold a different view.

You watched most of the home games last season and I watched many of the away games and I would not agree with your statement that 'with the exception of a few sides most of the sides we struggled against were physical' In my opinion it wasn't physicality that found the side out it was inferior shape, organisation and ball retention.

[nickbrod]

Plus often it was the inability of those in midfield being able to pass to someone in the same colour shirt.

[MellowYellow]

Any sort of passing game is wasted in this league and the teams that do well consistently are the big physical teams.

This subject has opened up quite a debate with many divided opinions. I am a believer that the passing game is not wasted in this league, but I can fully acknowledge the 'Conference' is a physical league and does not adhere (primarily to the standard of refereeing) to the passing game. I guess like all league teams (excluding Arsenal) you have to mix the play.

A big striker and a smaller, quicker forward alongside is still the best tactic, especially in this league, in my opinion. Worked brilliantly with Sills and Benyon and traditionally worked well throughout the years.

Danny's quote takes me back to the 2008/09 season (the year of our promotion) when we were away to Eastbourne Borough FC. The weather was atrocious and Buckle (rightly so, I thought at the time ) decided we cant play the passing game on this soggy pitch so we will revert to hoof-ball. And that played right into the hands of the hoof-ball experts 'Eastbourne'. With a blink of an eyelid we were 4-1 down with 8 mins to play. For those that were there and can remember we should have come away with a draw or even a win in that last 8 mins. How? The players took it upon themselves to drop 'hoofball' tactic's and play 'ball to feet'. In those last eight minutes. Eastbourne did not have a clue how to cope with it. Some really terrible refereeing decisions which (resulting in a near full-on riot from Torquay fans) resulted in the final score being 4-2 ( Benyon and Stills being the goal scorers).

I will accept that passing and ball possession don’t lead to wins. That said, for me the moral of the Eastbourne match was for the last 8 minutes the team employed a superbly rhythmic passing game that dissected the opposition like a master surgeon, leaving the football purists (like myself) purring for more. In my head it is simple maths. The passing game gives you more possession of the ball meaning two things, firstly, we have the opportunity to create more with the ball. Secondly, the opponents have less opportunity to create something with the ball. However, possession only means something when our team can score and this is where we can debate and where no-one can be right or wrong ( a big striker and a good inside forward or two smaller, quicker forwards) as it all depends on which combination take their chances.

[merse btpir]

I bet I can wee higher than both Flipper AND Merse.

Even if one of us has a fanny?

[merse btpir]

Reference McGinty, if it was just attitude he would still be playing higher up the leagues than at Torquay. Someone would have taken the chance to turn him around.

Manchester United ran out of patience with Sean McGinty in 2013 and released the then 19-year-old with immediate effectt. McGinty seemingly blew his last chance with the club when a loan spell with Tranmere Rovers was terminated prematurely by manager Ronnie Moore in early April, who was unimpressed with the youngster's discipline levels amid reports that he was not turning up for training.

The stint with Tranmere followed three previous loan spells at Morecambe, Oxford United and Carlisle United, all of which failed to yield much success, with his spell with The U's also terminated for unspecified reasons. To make matters worse, McGinty was at the centre of controversy in 2012 when he was convicted for drink driving and subsequently handed an 18 month driving ban, after he was caught driving the wrong way down a one way street twice over the legal limit.

The former Charlton Athletic youth player became the last player to feel the wrath of an irate Sir Alex Ferguson and be ordered out of the club, as the United boss prepared to step down from management. The Maidstone-born defender joined United from Charlton Athletic in 2009, reportedly costing the club approximately £1m.

It's a mighty long fall from those days; but as others have alluded to: if he displays the desire to grow up and put all that behind him then there is indeed a chance that he might follow in the footsteps of another silly young bugger who came to Torquay and messed up his chances early doors.......
Angus MacDonald must have been in the Last chance Saloon when he suddenly decided to get his head right and cut out the silly disciplinary weaknesses to his game; grew up and became a man with spectacular results.

Let's hope McGinty can do the same!

[Flipper]

You assume; that's good enough for you then. Never played professionally because never remotely good enough. I'm now almost 65 and practical coaching is way back when and that's why I agreed to fulfil the role I carried out last season after a period maintaining talent streams for a very good development centre of an academy indeed.

I don't claim to be able to coach at the level Nicholson and Herrera do but I sure know of scores who coach to very high standards more relevant to their budget and their level of competition with years more behind them. I believe that Herrera is a Eufa A licence holder although that might not be so; but the facts are that a manager who constantly pleads poverty of financial resources really has to be able to produce with the limited hand that he is dealt and can anybody really claim that #greatescapes 1&2 are really that?

"I believe that Herrera is a Eufa A licence holder"
Yes he is

If you're happy with that return then fine; if the public of Torbay continue to support the club at the level of app 1,800 per home game then fine.

I too thought McGinty's overall performance improved as the season wore on; but he is no 'National League virgin' ~ with over 40 appearances in the league for Aldershot before he was brought in and he really needs to replicate what Angus McDonald achieved if he is to justify his history in the game.

Are you inferring that they are inferior coaches ? you ask.....I am inferring that their end product isn't very good and I am entitled to aire my opinion as much as anyone else on a public forum. Have you seen them coach ? Yes I have, including watching Robbie stay behind when everybody has gone to work with players individually. This doesn't apply to every player we had last season but "you can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear"

You say you suspect that I am a wannabee coach who couldn't make it as a player....not so and I didn't claim to coach those boys last season either if you read properly. I said I managed the project ~ putting the infrastructure together, handing all the opportunities with professional clubs for the lads to go and try if they wished and being of the utmost support to the coach as I possibly could be. My only coaching of late has been with the very young ensuring they acquired the basic skills of receiving the ball, acquiring balance and good first touch with two footedness and to be honest I have only done that under sufferance as it is not really something I wanted to be doing at my age.

I agree; coaching boys isn't the same and once you have progressed them to a point where a club has shown interest they need to adapt to a different world of football as you say and then some more if they are to progress to remaining in the picture in the competitiveness of first team football..... Yes, some will shine and kick on while others will get found out and have to drop down to lower levels of the game. I couldn't agree more, but what I am promoting is the playing of a better style of football commensurate with where you can realistically recruit from.

You believe that is from the 'kick and rush' fraternity; I hold a different view.

Quite the opposite, I like to see good football and have always coached boys to be comfortable on the ball, to be comfortable receiving it an any position, to play and move, to find space and not to be afraid of expressing themselves whilst helping them to decide when to do it and when not to. What I am saying is that at the moment with the instability that surrounds the club it's surely more important to get results than the possibility of relegation so it's a needs must not necessarily what we would all like to see. That can be tempered with good football, if they have the players but at times defenders need to defend and "hoofed" clearance or a long ball into the forward can also be effective or indeed needed.

You watched most of the home games last season and I watched many of the away games and I would not agree with your statement that 'with the exception of a few sides most of the sides we struggled against were physical' In my opinion it wasn't physicality that found the side out it was inferior shape, organisation and ball retention.
I disagree "sows ear" again. The players have to take some of the responsibility, once they cross that line they have to put into practice what they have been coached. There is only so much you can do as a coach. That said I'm sure the Kevin and Robbie would be the first to admit they made mistakes. Nobody is perfect and they are still learning.

[brucie]

Ajala is at Bath - blimey - isn't he worth another look?

[Colorado Gull]

Ajala is at Bath - blimey - isn't he worth another look?

Possibly. He was very inconsistent when he was with us, can't say that I would be jumping for joy if Ajala returned.

[Mattpuma]

Ajala? No thanks. Had 2 chances here and was woeful 2nd time around.
Why are we obsessed with re-signing ex-players?
Fresh blood please.

[Dave]

Ajala? No thanks. Had 2 chances here and was woeful 2nd time around.
Why are we obsessed with re-signing ex-players?
Fresh blood please.

Agreed, after all Nicho brought back LRT and Lathrope, yep, that worked out well. Wonder what Dean Mooney's up to these days