Management options

[Tarrboy1]

Anyone notice any prospective candidates in attendance today?

[divingbboy]

I'm not suggesting that this would be a good idea, but do you think there's any chance that we haven't appointed anyone yet because they want to see if Herrera's up to the job?

[merse btpir]

I'm not suggesting that this would be a good idea, but do you think there's any chance that we haven't appointed anyone yet because they want to see if Herrera's up to the job?

No it wouldn't be a good idea. One point from twelve and chucking another two points away at the death today and all of a sudden.........you couldn't make this up really could you!

[divingbboy]

No it wouldn't be a good idea. One point from twelve and chucking another two points away at the death today and all of a sudden.........you couldn't make this up really could you!

I'm just trying to come up with a rational explanation for the continued absence of a manager. It seems to me that they've either been let down by someone who they thought was signing on the dotted line, they're trying to see if Herrera's up to the job or they're completely incompetent. It does seem very, very odd that it's been two weeks now.

[MellowYellow]

What we have here is 'Spin'. I expect they have selected the crème de la crème of applicants and they have sat down one by one, listened and walked after hearing the salary, resources available and the targets expected of them. I think you'll find Harrop is 'up the creek without a paddle', knows he has raised fans expectation and now cannot deliver. It's not passed the imagination that if we can pick up a few points under Herrera reign they will give him the job (Puppet Manager No1) As for a Premier league appointment this will only be of the non-league variety e.g. Tiverton, Weymouth etc. as I am assuming the names of Giggs, Shearer being banded about is just a bit of sarcastic humour.

[desperado]

I expect thats the case Mellow, Harrop is going back to Osborne saying , 'he wants this and that' and Osborne
is saying 'we cant stretch that far, try the next name on the list' and so it drags on

[popside_lad]

I'm just trying to come up with a rational explanation for the continued absence of a manager. It seems to me that they've either been let down by someone who they thought was signing on the dotted line, they're trying to see if Herrera's up to the job or they're completely incompetent. It does seem very, very odd that it's been two weeks now.

My gut instinct is it's done already. And my theory is that the selected manager didn't want to take over until Monday to have a full week to work with the players. The board had a deadline meeting Tuesday. Say that took most of day to thrash it out which it could have with 4 seriously good candidates on the table. They would then have to negotiate salary and budgets (unless was covered in interview) and appoint the manager. This could easily be Wednesday afternoon/evening by now. Which leaves you as a manager with 1 training session as traditionally you rest day before a match. You then run the risk of confusing players with mixed instructions or you go in with RHs tactics and a poor result reflects badly on start of your tenure. I think the way Gray reacted when he 'scored' suggests that the players know was RHs last game too. Cynically maybe that's why they pulled fingers out to impress a new manager.

[Plainmoor78]

Its common for new managers to be announced late in the week before a match and the caretaker still does the team selection. So I don't think that's the reason we haven't heard anything.

[Plainmoor78]

Anyway what's the betting we're waiting for Jon McCarthy to be released from his contract.

[Barrowfan]

Hi. Have been reading this thread with some interest especially re Paul Cox. One of your contributors suggests a view from a Barrow AFC supporter might be useful so I thought I might pitch in.

Firstly having had him as a manager even for a short period TUFC should know what makes PC tick, he is not an unknown quantity.

Secondly he has not made any public utterances on his departure from BAFC though the club have been reasonably candid. The genuine belief is that the split was mutual and was not prompted by anybody being "tapped up".

In summary Paul Cox undoubtedly had issues with the way the owner was controlling the budget. This led Cox to a position on some occasions where players had been identified and were ready for signing without the budget being approved leading to a number of failed signings. This occurred for the first time in January after our 20 odd game unbeaten run when a number of players were lined up when the squad was particularly thin and being supported by loanees. Many off the BAFC supporters believe that this actually cost us a play-off place in the end and sympathies lie heavily with Cox.

The club on the other hand did clearly come to have issues with the types of player Cox was signing and with his style of play. Like it or not there is a real attempt to build a brand around the club and the owner found it more and more difficult to accept PCs methods.

PCs methods were and are effective. If winning is all that's important he's your man, and in your position if you could get him I'd bite his hand off. Your views might change in 18 months time when your are still playing the same formulaic stuff towards the other end of the table but that's then and this is now.

Couple of other points to straighten out. Whilst having a great NL brain, PC has not been pivotal in many of the acquisitions we have made. This honour lies with Paul Ogden the then Chief Scout who has a knack of finding some real gems from God knows where. Some of these have now been sold for real money and our transfer record was broken three times in the close season. In a pre-emptive move BAFC made Paul Ogden Director of Football a few weeks before Cox resigned and this is also believed to be the final straw for Cox himself. Smart move by the club though.

Also MIckey Moore has expressed an interest in the job and is being seriously considered by the Club. I rate his chances as 50:50, maybe better. He is being supported in team preparation by Marcus Bignot. The club have been strenuous to claim that this is a temporary measure only and MB is not an employee of BAFC so is also available if you wanted him.

Have no idea whether PC will end up at Plainmoor again. However I would say that despite the stereotypical comments about our geographical location, our crumbing mausoleum of a ground and forty odd years of neglect etc., there is no doubt that PC was given a decent budget by NL standards (apparently increased for this season). Whilst personalities always play a role, like other managers of his ilk, it all comes down to money, how much you have and who spends it.

My guess is that BAFCs budget for this season is higher (significantly maybe) than TUFC. Whilst PC is not obsessed with money its clear to us from his time at BAFC that he would only stay whilst he genuinely believed that the conditions were right (as he saw it) for him to get us back into the Football League. Therefore, he would only also go to TUFC if he believed that the conditions were now right. Once he loses faith however, he'd be off.

To this extent his judgement (we hope) may be flawed. Virtually all of the 22 man squad that was reduced to 14-15 fit players for Coxs last game at Dover were ironically back and available by yesterday game against Boreham Wood and Mickey Moores more attacking and fluid style was getting rave reviews.

Our paths are due to cross at Holker Street in a few weeks and it has dawned on me that its not impossible for Cox to be sat in the away dugout. I would fancy your chances more if he were there. Notwithstanding this, TUFC are far to good a club to be looking nervously at the National League South. I say this as someone who used to watch both sides play in the late sixties. Truly hope your season starts to improve.

[SuperNickyWroe]

Hi. Have been reading this thread with some interest especially re Paul Cox. One of your contributors suggests a view from a Barrow AFC supporter might be useful so I thought I might pitch in.

Firstly having had him as a manager even for a short period TUFC should know what makes PC tick, he is not an unknown quantity.

Secondly he has not made any public utterances on his departure from BAFC though the club have been reasonably candid. The genuine belief is that the split was mutual and was not prompted by anybody being "tapped up".

In summary Paul Cox undoubtedly had issues with the way the owner was controlling the budget. This led Cox to a position on some occasions where players had been identified and were ready for signing without the budget being approved leading to a number of failed signings. This occurred for the first time in January after our 20 odd game unbeaten run when a number of players were lined up when the squad was particularly thin and being supported by loanees. Many off the BAFC supporters believe that this actually cost us a play-off place in the end and sympathies lie heavily with Cox.

The club on the other hand did clearly come to have issues with the types of player Cox was signing and with his style of play. Like it or not there is a real attempt to build a brand around the club and the owner found it more and more difficult to accept PCs methods.

PCs methods were and are effective. If winning is all that's important he's your man, and in your position if you could get him I'd bite his hand off. Your views might change in 18 months time when your are still playing the same formulaic stuff towards the other end of the table but that's then and this is now.

Couple of other points to straighten out. Whilst having a great NL brain, PC has not been pivotal in many of the acquisitions we have made. This honour lies with Paul Ogden the then Chief Scout who has a knack of finding some real gems from God knows where. Some of these have now been sold for real money and our transfer record was broken three times in the close season. In a pre-emptive move BAFC made Paul Ogden Director of Football a few weeks before Cox resigned and this is also believed to be the final straw for Cox himself. Smart move by the club though.

Also MIckey Moore has expressed an interest in the job and is being seriously considered by the Club. I rate his chances as 50:50, maybe better. He is being supported in team preparation by Marcus Bignot. The club have been strenuous to claim that this is a temporary measure only and MB is not an employee of BAFC so is also available if you wanted him.

Have no idea whether PC will end up at Plainmoor again. However I would say that despite the stereotypical comments about our geographical location, our crumbing mausoleum of a ground and forty odd years of neglect etc., there is no doubt that PC was given a decent budget by NL standards (apparently increased for this season). Whilst personalities always play a role, like other managers of his ilk, it all comes down to money, how much you have and who spends it.

My guess is that BAFCs budget for this season is higher (significantly maybe) than TUFC. Whilst PC is not obsessed with money its clear to us from his time at BAFC that he would only stay whilst he genuinely believed that the conditions were right (as he saw it) for him to get us back into the Football League. Therefore, he would only also go to TUFC if he believed that the conditions were now right. Once he loses faith however, he'd be off.

To this extent his judgement (we hope) may be flawed. Virtually all of the 22 man squad that was reduced to 14-15 fit players for Coxs last game at Dover were ironically back and available by yesterday game against Boreham Wood and Mickey Moores more attacking and fluid style was getting rave reviews.

Our paths are due to cross at Holker Street in a few weeks and it has dawned on me that its not impossible for Cox to be sat in the away dugout. I would fancy your chances more if he were there. Notwithstanding this, TUFC are far to good a club to be looking nervously at the National League South. I say this as someone who used to watch both sides play in the late sixties. Truly hope your season starts to improve.

thanks for the excellent insight with this post Barrowfan.
it makes a refreshing change to have a fan of another club who has a good handle on things that are happening or have happened in their club.
cheers.

[tomogull]

My gut instinct is it's done already. And my theory is that the selected manager didn't want to take over until Monday to have a full week to work with the players. The board had a deadline meeting Tuesday. Say that took most of day to thrash it out which it could have with 4 seriously good candidates on the table. They would then have to negotiate salary and budgets (unless was covered in interview) and appoint the manager. This could easily be Wednesday afternoon/evening by now. Which leaves you as a manager with 1 training session as traditionally you rest day before a match. You then run the risk of confusing players with mixed instructions or you go in with RHs tactics and a poor result reflects badly on start of your tenure. I think the way Gray reacted when he 'scored' suggests that the players know was RHs last game too. Cynically maybe that's why they pulled fingers out to impress a new manager.

That makes logical sense and i also think a decision will be announced tomorrow. The only correction to your posting is that we don't actually have a Board (yes, ridiculous I know). As I read it, Geoff Harrop is making the decision and then presumably running off to Mr Osborne and saying "Hi Clarke - this is what Applicant A is demanding for his remuneration - can we afford it?". Clarke says "Hell, no". And so it goes on ...... until Chris Todd is appointed. Sorry - it's pi**ing down with rain and I'm in a cynical mood.

[merse btpir]

Paul Cox undoubtedly had issues with the way the owner was controlling the budget. This led Cox to a position on some occasions where players had been identified and were ready for signing without the budget being approved leading to a number of failed signings. This occurred for the first time in January after our 20 odd game unbeaten run when a number of players were lined up when the squad was particularly thin and being supported by loanees. Many off the BAFC supporters believe that this actually cost us a play-off place in the end and sympathies lie heavily with Cox.
The club on the other hand did clearly come to have issues with the types of player Cox was signing and with his style of play. Like it or not there is a real attempt to build a brand around the club and the owner found it more and more difficult to accept PCs methods.
PCs methods were and are effective. If winning is all that's important he's your man, and in your position if you could get him I'd bite his hand off. Your views might change in 18 months time when your are still playing the same formulaic stuff towards the other end of the table but that's then and this is now.

.......and that sums up Paul Cox perfectly; and to which I would add that some players ~ having a greater technical ability and tactical awareness than he demands from his 'Land of the Giants' personnel ~ don't want to hang about and play that archaic stuff; even develop medical conditions in their minds to avoid playing it in fact.....I know; I'm the father of a footballer who voluntarily 'took a rain check' from where he was playing last season because of that syndrome, but is now playing out of his skin once more for a more enlightened set of management at a new club.

One former player who played under Cox this summer described to me of being in his midfield as akin to being a net cord judge at tennis with balls flying back and forth over his head and never in to his feet.........that's what you get with Cox and I'm not so sure 'winning' comes anywhere near to retaining any players of technique or above average ability to play and think for themselves.

First half already 1.0 up, we have 3 v 1 attacking overload, square the ball and it's 2 v the keeper, you're going to score, we shoot keeper saves chance gone, second half, think it was Gray who robs the keeper down by the popside corner flag, square the ball to an unmarked Keating, who's highly likely to score, we try and find the empty net from an almost impossible angle, no goal scored, Reid has the clearest sight of goal he'll ever get, doesn't shoot checks back chance gone, Cole drives into the box, nothing more than half chance, shoot, could there be deflection, the keeper may parry it, where's the rebound going, nope, he turns out, ends up going on a mazy run off to the corner flag, thankfully the stand was there, otherwise god knows where he'd have ended up.

Having said that, under Nicholson ~ and by default Herrera ~ Torquay have been incapable of game management in any shape or form. Failing to hold on to leads and thus accrue points, Failing to spot deficiency in line ups and team shape and thus getting out thought, out manoeuvred and (well) simply beaten by better managed; more disciplined and better coached teams with nothing more significant in resources and training facilities than they have. How often have we seen a Nicholson or Herrera team even hold their own with part-time opposition who are fitter and better prepared than they are?

Incidents described by forevertufc of players making incorrect and simply self indulgent decisions at the cost of team benefit are indicative of the poorly managed and dreadfully coached side that they are......whoever comes in as manager has a hell of a brainstorming task to undertake!

[kevgull]

4 1/2 years of very poor management has led us to this unique position.

Martin Ling ( last 6 months, nothing personal however it has had a detrimental affect on TUFC)
Shaun Taylor (caretaker)
Allan Knill
Chris Hargreaves
Paul Cox
Kevin Nicholson

Please let us have a decent manager, it's akin to waiting for the next messiah!

[kevgull]

Found him!

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.stan ... html%3famp