Very confused - what is GI's game?

[arcadia]

I heard a rumor a couple of weeks ago Osborne met Foster to see if G.I. could have the lease of the woodland near M&S so they could build houses there instead of Plainmoor could this be true. The speedway would be in this agreement. The Plainmoor ground would then stay untouched.

[tomogull]

I heard a rumor a couple of weeks ago Osborne met Foster to see if G.I. could have the lease of the woodland near M&S so they could build houses there instead of Plainmoor could this be true. The speedway would be in this agreement. The Plainmoor ground would then stay untouched.

I suspect that is exactly what it is - a rumour. Firstly, Kevin Foster has nothing to do with planning applications in Torbay and secondly, the woodland in question was purchased by Paul Bristow to save it from development and for use by the Scouts in Torbay. I can't see Thea relinquishing Paul's intentions to protect this woodland.

[arcadia]

I suspect that is exactly what it is - a rumour. Firstly, Kevin Foster has nothing to do with planning applications in Torbay and secondly, the woodland in question was purchased by Paul Bristow to save it from development and for use by the Scouts in Torbay. I can't see Thea relinquishing Paul's intentions to protect this woodland.

This is obviously the link Thea is being approached but as you say all rumour.

[chunkygull]

I must admit I have often wondered the answer to this question.

Now lets get out of the way the fact that we are never going to have a new stadium, thats not going to happen. Thats all flannel and bullshit, a smokescreen to get their way.

Right, so they want the freehold to Plainmoor, no question about that. Now, they can either try to improve the ground and its facilities and stay put. We know thats not what they want but it is feasible as a plan B. After all Mike Bateson wanted the freehold at one time for that reason and I remember roughly he didnt want to continue improving the ground until the club owned it, thats fair enough. Hard nosed businessman as Mr B was, nobody ever accused, feared or suspected him of trying to rip us off and make us homeless.

So that leaves as we suspect they want the Plainmoor land and to bulldoze the ground to use for building houses etc. Well, they are definitely playing the long game, fair enough. Now we all know land is worth a lot of money. Lets add up all factors in this equation. Total up how much money GI have invested so far into the TUFC project and at least for the forseeable will have to continue. Take into consideration the time, effort and man hours involved also. Lets ask, just how much profit are they going to make from this project, will it be worth it? Once they have bought the land, got rid of the football club and bulldozed the ground, what then? Does this company build the new houses/flats/shops/buildings and make their money that way or do they simply sell the land on to developers for a profit?

Surely there are easier ways to make money in property development? There must be lots of unused, suitable land or uninhabited buildings ready for development or regeneration. Why the need to oust a football club. A football club comes under much scrutiny and would have at least a few thousand people in opposition and making life difficult. I know they did it to Speedway and greyhound racing but has anything actually been built on their old stadia? To be fair those two events wouldnt have a fanbase like a football team to contend with surely.

Another option to question as a possibility, are we being used for some sort of money laundering or tax write off maybe because there sure as shit must be something dodgy going on here.

Is it just a case that they saw the old board as easy pickings to either make some money by loan sharking or did they really fancy getting a football club on the cheap and saw some easy pickings. I wouldnt be surpised if they didnt want a football club but because the sharking didnt work out they got lumbered with us and now they have to make the best of the deal and are looking for the best way how to get their money back and make a profit.

[Plainmoor78]

I know they did it to Speedway and greyhound racing but has anything actually been built on their old stadia?

Jesus Christ, how many times do we have to keep going over this until people realise that GI do not give a fig about TUFC.

Eastville stadium in bristol is now an IKEA superstore. Milton Keynes greyhound stadium now lays under wetheringsett road. Reading speedway stadium has been demolished.

Make no mistake if GI get their hands on plainmoor we are as good as ****. None of this is difficult to research on the internet and yet people are still willing to give GI the benefit of the doubt.

[merse btpir]

.......how many times do we have to keep going over this until people realise that GI do not give a fig about TUFC.
Eastville stadium in bristol is now an IKEA superstore. Milton Keynes greyhound stadium now lays under wetheringsett road. Reading speedway stadium has been demolished.
Make no mistake if GI get their hands on plainmoor we are as good as ****. None of this is difficult to research on the internet and yet people are still willing to give GI the benefit of the doubt.

I agree with the facts of all that, but consider this as a way forward ~ because like it or not, GI have pumped over half a million into the club whereas the previous administration were not capable of that......

At a new stadium; or even at Plainmoor, the football club pay rent to a stadium management company - a partnership between the council and the club. Under such a new deal, the football club would run the stadium, increasing the scope for stadium use and selling the ground's naming rights.

One way or another the situation has got be avoided where the freehold of the town's only professional sporting venue falls into the hands of a private company; yet such a private company is essential in order to maintain the full-time professional profile of football in the area will not invest unless there is a cast iron business security in it for them........we have to recognise that and we have to recognise just how much is required to fund and operate a club even at National League level which is at least where we want it to be.

Torquay United aren't the only club owned by a business concern who regard it as a vehicle for (a) increasing their portfolio of interests and (b) represent a capital venture capable of eventually being sold on and thus making profit on the acquisition.

We either come to terms with accepting that very fact of life or we sit and watch whilst the club disintegrates into the sort of under capitalised, underfunded shell it had become since the departure of the Alex Rowe board and became the private fiefdom of a person who hadn't a clue as to the intellect necessary to ensure that the venture remained sustainable let alone profitable.

Go to Maidstone, go to Bromley, go to Boreham Wood; and you will see compact little businesses geared up to providing sustainability for National League football to exist in their towns. Off pitch revenue streams put in place to provide that life blood. Sophisticated corporate partnerships abounding that increase and maintain those revenue streams. Hell's teeth you don't think average gates of 2,386 (Maidstone), 1,113 (Bromley) and 477 (Boreham Wood) are enough for those clubs to operate as they do and continue to be upwardly mobile do you?

Torquay United, it's support base and it's town; have much catching up to do and much to learn about how to sustain professionall football in the town in this day and age.

[Dave_Pougher]

I'd agree with every sentiment there merse, how could you not, I just hope that the council have the business acumen you speak of and insist at least some of the forward thinking structure is in place before they relinquish the freehold.

It would be comforting for TUFC fans to see historic evidence of this with GI but unfortunately there seems to be very little.

[chunkygull]

Jesus Christ, how many times do we have to keep going over this until people realise that GI do not give a fig about TUFC.

Eastville stadium in bristol is now an IKEA superstore. Milton Keynes greyhound stadium now lays under wetheringsett road. Reading speedway stadium has been demolished.

Make no mistake if GI get their hands on plainmoor we are as good as ****. None of this is difficult to research on the internet and yet people are still willing to give GI the benefit of the doubt.

I dont trust them one little bit and yes I agree if they get Plainmoor its likely game over. I have read plenty about them since they got involved with us. I knew about Eastville but wasnt sure what was built on the other stadium sites. I now just like most of us that they have yet to build any promised stadiums which is part of the OP's question and something I said also. What is their game because they are certainly in it for the long haul - how much can they really make on Plainmoor after all they have already shelled out and how much more they will have to before they are done ,along with all the time, effort and man hours put in, will it be worth it - surely there are easier and cheaper land/property development and regeneration deals out there.

[TorquayDNA]

Exactly Merse, it's high time TUFC was run as a professional football club (in other words as a sustainable business) because without that it's the end for the club. For too long, TUFC has been in the hands of lovely and very well-meaning people but who have had no idea how to make a football club a viable business venture in the long term.

Yes, you can be and honest decent business person with the right amount of grit and determination to see your plan through even though it's not popular. If you're trying to please everyone you'll fail.

So unless we get evidence to suggest anything underhand is happening, it's time to appreciate what this club is doing. Also, if it turn out that GI need to pay attention to fans voices, we should be displaying a united, rational, mature approach - stupid comments about the eating habits of the management team etc aren't going to convince GI that they should take fans seriously...

Rant over

[merse btpir]

I agree with you ~ the 'debate' needs to be on a higher level than many devalue it by rubbish like that........

The reason I came onto this forum several months ago was to attempt to consolidate awareness of the reality and the reality is the club has been scandalously 'mis-owned' ~ irresponsibly so ~ and has fallen into what is almost certainly predatory hands.

However; whilst those hands are in possession there is the faint hope that what we perceive as their Plan A will be thwarted and that their Plan B will involve capitalising and professionalising the club so that it can be a viable entity that can be sold on for profit.

It's a long shot, but is the only shot!

[SuperNickyWroe]

I agree with you ~ the 'debate' needs to be on a higher level than many devalue it by rubbish like that........

The reason I came onto this forum several months ago was to attempt to consolidate awareness of the reality and the reality is the club has been scandalously 'mis-owned' ~ irresponsibly so ~ and has fallen into what is almost certainly predatory hands.

However; whilst those hands are in possession there is the faint hope that what we perceive as their Plan A will be thwarted and that their Plan B will involve capitalising and professionalising the club so that it can be a viable entity that can be sold on for profit.

It's a long shot, but is the only shot!

hopefully so.

one shot is better than none.....

[jonny5]

Exactly Merse, it's high time TUFC was run as a professional football club (in other words as a sustainable business) because without that it's the end for the club. For too long, TUFC has been in the hands of lovely and very well-meaning people but who have had no idea how to make a football club a viable business venture in the long term.

Yes, you can be and honest decent business person with the right amount of grit and determination to see your plan through even though it's not popular. If you're trying to please everyone you'll fail.

So unless we get evidence to suggest anything underhand is happening, it's time to appreciate what this club is doing. Also, if it turn out that GI need to pay attention to fans voices, we should be displaying a united, rational, mature approach - stupid comments about the eating habits of the management team etc aren't going to convince GI that they should take fans seriously...

Rant over

Danke, Herr Goebbels.

Not so much a rant as a weak-minded imitation of a weak-minded sycophant. Here, you try to claim Merse as an ally when in truth he sees GI for what they are, as do the vast majority of true Gulls. Read again what he says about Plans A and B.

And keep tagging on a lukewarm 'criticism' of your parasitic paymasters when you trot out your propaganda. It's so very effective at making the rest of us believe that you're a genuine fan.

[Southampton Gull]

Yes, obviously another salad dodger.................

[moneylife]

its all speculation though. AFAIK know nobody here has proof that GI are going to redevelop the plainmoor ground into dwellings. Not one bit of actual proof, just hearsay and people reading the past dealings of the new owners.

[merse btpir]

Was it you who hired Myra Hindley as a child minder?