Ineligibility Hearing put Back a Week

[ferrarilover]

Hmmm, nice try Troj, but I would attack the wording of the law slightly differently.

Any club playing an unregistered in A League Match...

This is worded in this manner to allow the league to treat each match (or part thereof) in which the ineligible player takes part as a separate incident. Allowing for this, the three point maximum penalty is as it is such that the League may take away any points earned, up to the maximum of three per match. Simples.

Matt.

[Fletch]

The highlighted words state may, not will.

Did I say anywhere that we WILL have points deducted Troj :na:

Which ever way they decide to rule is going to have someone pissed off. Neither of us deducted points - those around us and the likes of Burton and Barnet will moan, Hereford lose points and we dont? Hereford moan cos its the same offence, we lose points and Hereford dont? Same argument. Both lose points? Hereford should also lose the 3 points gained as well as the "points" fine. Either way theres going to be some flame wars I suspect

[ferrarilover]

Oh, good, I made a post and the site appears to have deleted it. Oh well.

Matt.

[Dave]

I was aware of this regulation,and the second line of it is important,i read that as whatever punishment handed out is pretty much at the discretion of the F.A/FL ,and this is where the problem lie's,they actually can deduct points from us regardless of the fact that none where gained.

What i touched on in my previous reply is whatever they decide here is going to have implication's either for us and Hereford,or other team's involved in promotion/relegation issue's,and why i say that this is not going to be as easy and as clear cut for the F.A/FL to sort out.

If us and Hereford were in midtable,no problem,had the match be drawn,no problem,had it just been us playing an ineligible player,no problem,sadly we both did,and the fact Hereford won the game has made this rather complicated.

It is not as simple as,we lost so a fine,they won so 3 points deducted,how is that fair on Hereford?,3 points deducted of both ,how is that fair on us?,no points deducted of either of us,how is that fair on every other team fighting for promotion/against relegation?

Bit more of a mess than people in general realize,and what we seem to have totaly forgotten,is this is not our first offence.

[Scott Brehaut]

It is not as simple as,we lost so a fine,they won so 3 points deducted,how is that fair on Hereford?,3 points deducted of both ,how is that fair on us?,no points deducted of either of us,how is that fair on every other team fighting for promotion/against relegation?

It's not about fairness though surely?

We lost a game that we fielded an illegal player in. Hereford won a game they fielded an illegal player in. Therefore, we gained NOTHING from this game. Hereford gained three points. Ok, the result may have been the same regardless of illegal players or not, however the facts are that Hereford have three points that they should not have. Therefore, surely they must have them removed. As we gained nothing by fielding an illegal player we should not lose any points.
Had we gained points from it then yes, we should have some deducted. As we didn't we should not lose any.

Fines are a different matter entirely. I have no doubt in my mind that we will have a hefty fine.

[Jeff]

I personally think that Hereford are pretty much nailed on to lose 3 points.

For us, it is obviously a lot more complicated. Dare i suggest that a common-sense approach (short of a simple slap on the wrist) would be to deduct us 1 point. O.K, we end up losing a point that had nothing to do with the game in which the infringement occurred, but the FA are seen to be taking a stance and we are punished, but not to the extent that our season is ruined by what was a genuine mistake.

What could be a crucial element in all this is that the FA have announced they are to review the Player registration/Transfer window regulations - admission in their own camp that the rules are too confusing. Could this work in our favour in the sense that the FA can see how it is possible to make a mistake with the current regs, and thus will show leniency in their decision.

And then of course there is always the precedent of Accrington not being deducted points for a similar offence in 2006/7.

[Trojan 67]

I personally think that Hereford are pretty much nailed on to lose 3 points.

For us, it is obviously a lot more complicated. Dare i suggest that a common-sense approach (short of a simple slap on the wrist) would be to deduct us 1 point. O.K, we end up losing a point that had nothing to do with the game in which the infringement occurred, but the FA are seen to be taking a stance and we are punished, but not to the extent that our season is ruined by what was a genuine mistake.

What could be a crucial element in all this is that the FA have announced they are to review the Player registration/Transfer window regulations - admission in their own camp that the rules are too confusing. Could this work in our favour in the sense that the FA can see how it is possible to make a mistake with the current regs, and thus will show leniency in their decision.

And then of course there is always the precedent of Accrington not being deducted points for a similar offence in 2006/7.

Accrington one up against Southend

[Fletch]

I personally think that Hereford are pretty much nailed on to lose 3 points.

For us, it is obviously a lot more complicated. Dare i suggest that a common-sense approach (short of a simple slap on the wrist) would be to deduct us 1 point. O.K, we end up losing a point that had nothing to do with the game in which the infringement occurred, but the FA are seen to be taking a stance and we are punished, but not to the extent that our season is ruined by what was a genuine mistake.
What could be a crucial element in all this is that the FA have announced they are to review the Player registration/Transfer window regulations - admission in their own camp that the rules are too confusing. Could this work in our favour in the sense that the FA can see how it is possible to make a mistake with the current regs, and thus will show leniency in their decision.
And then of course there is always the precedent of Accrington not being deducted points for a similar offence in 2006/7.

If they deduct us 1 point as a "fine", I could see them deducting 4 off Hereford (1 for a "fine" and the 3 gained in the match). Watch the sparks fly then
The review of the registration should certainly count in our favour as it seems a pretty convoluted system.

[Dave]

It's not about fairness though surely?

We lost a game that we fielded an illegal player in. Hereford won a game they fielded an illegal player in. Therefore, we gained NOTHING from this game. Hereford gained three points. Ok, the result may have been the same regardless of illegal players or not, however the facts are that Hereford have three points that they should not have. Therefore, surely they must have them removed. As we gained nothing by fielding an illegal player we should not lose any points.
Had we gained points from it then yes, we should have some deducted. As we didn't we should not lose any.

Fines are a different matter entirely. I have no doubt in my mind that we will have a hefty fine.

Totaly agree with you Scott,it's not about fairness,and fairness probably will not come into the final decision,thats what is worrying me.

Your right we should have no points deducted,had Hereford not commited the same offence in this match,there is no doubt that we would have had no points deducted,but Hereford did and they won,and all i am trying to point out is,that has thrown a rather big spanner in the work's and may lead to the final decision not going as fairly for us as it should,coupled with the fact ,it is not our first offence.

That said i personaly will be suprised if we do have points deducted,however should that happen my suggestion would be,as a club we will have to take it on the chin and get on with it,as an appeal could lead to an even worse punishment.

[SuperNickyWroe]

what all the fuss about.

we will get a fine, hereford will lose 3pts and get a fine and the fa will be sure to c**k it up again by changing the rules!

we didnt gain anything they did.

if they (stupidly) decided to deduct us points then they can get ready - as someone has said re real accrington

so the fa/fl can f**k right off!

[Jerry]

What could be a crucial element in all this is that the FA have announced they are to review the Player registration/Transfer window regulations - admission in their own camp that the rules are too confusing. Could this work in our favour in the sense that the FA can see how it is possible to make a mistake with the current regs, and thus will show leniency in their decision.

Surely this has to work in our favour? If they change the rules they are as good as admitting that the rules are too complicated. How can they then deduct points from us? They wouldn't have a leg to stand on. I would expect an appeal if we lose points in these circumstances!

[Fonda]

I rather fear we will both suffer a points deduction. The powers-that-be will feel pressured by the other clubs involved at the top and the bottom of the League to punish the 'wrong-doers'. I'd expect us to recieve a 1 point deduction, with Hereford recieving the same 1 point deduction as well as losing the points gained in the match.

The cynic in me thinks the reason this has been as delayed as long as it has, was in the hope both clubs would have moved towards mid-table, and a points dededuction would not have been necessary.

[Trojan 67]

Does anyone know how it works in the South Devon League ? Many SDL teams have points deductions against them. Are they deducted regardless of the win/draw/loss ?

[Dave]

I rather fear we will both suffer a points deduction. The powers-that-be will feel pressured by the other clubs involved at the top and the bottom of the League to punish the 'wrong-doers'. I'd expect us to recieve a 1 point deduction, with Hereford recieving the same 1 point deduction as well as losing the points gained in the match.

The cynic in me thinks the reason this has been as delayed as long as it has, was in the hope both clubs would have moved towards mid-table, and a points dededuction would not have been necessary.

Right now i would settle for a one point deduction,that would leave us in the play-off zone on goal difference,played the same number of games as our rival's,ao the play-off's would still be in our hands.

[Dave]

Does anyone know how it works in the South Devon League ? Many SDL teams have points deductions against them. Are they deducted regardless of the win/draw/loss ?

To be fair Troj,i do not think you can comare the SDL,to what may or may not happen with us,these issue's tend to left to local F.a admin.local league commitee's to sort out,the F.a as a whole see grass roots football at conference level,and do not give a flying furk about anything lower than that.