Ineligibility Hearing put Back a Week

[Regiment]

I know we're kind of all in this together, but for me the point deduction feels like a slap in the face for the players who got us the points in the first place, whereas a fine is more fitting for the admin errors that have actually happened. I don't understand why on earth we should lose an additional point in a game we lost. Anyway, now we know where we stand - still in the play offs with everything to play for. Our future is in our own hands and I hope the manager and team feel fired up by this bizarre decision and we have a storming end to the season. That way we won't even need to consider an appeal.

totally agree, and when you consider the punishments handed out to clubs in financial difficulties, -10 points, you're just punishing clubs/players already in trouble. i know argylle are local rivals and all that, but from a football point of view, it's not nice to see, and a club desperately in need of a break, just gets an almighty kick in the balls. it's amazing someone actually sat down, wrote some of these rules, and thought, "yeah, that's a fair way of dealing with it".

[basil75]

totally agree, and when you consider the punishments handed out to clubs in financial difficulties, -10 points, you're just punishing clubs/players already in trouble. i know argylle are local rivals and all that, but from a football point of view, it's not nice to see, and a club desperately in need of a break, just gets an almighty kick in the balls. it's amazing someone actually sat down, wrote some of these rules, and thought, "yeah, that's a fair way of dealing with it".

I'll be honest - I completely agree with the 10 point deduction for going into administration. The team have had a squad they can't afford and have been gaining points unfairly in that respect. The players could be elsewhere earning points for other teams.

Clubs spending beyond their means also unfairly put more financial pressure on other clubs - in a bid to attract players - one of the main factors is wages. If your club has been in a battle to sign someone with the offending club - it is likely you've ended up paying far more than you should have. In turn, the league average wage increases.

Their participation in the transfer market is essentially shill bidding, so other clubs do also pay for others spending beyond their means.

[CP Gull]

Brief interview with the Hereford Chairman here:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/footbal ... 449426.stm

Listening to that it sounds very much as though Hereford spent the best part of two hours trying to persuade the panel that whatever punishment was handed out should be the same for both teams. No doubt this had some bearing in the panel reaching their decision and, in my opinion, is the sole reason why we have been deducted a point i.e to try and even out the punishment for both clubs.

The surprise expressed by Mr Keyte in the outcome that we have been deducted a point (like he says a precedent has been set) that we didn't even gain , suggests to me that they (Hereford) were hoping that the panel would allow the result to stand and that we would both just get away with a fine. Unfortunately the only thing they (Hereford) appear to have achieved is in getting us deducted a point! It was always likely, in my opinion, that they would be deducted the three points - whether that is fair to them is another matter but based on past decisons it was always the likely scenario. Our outcome in being deducted a point we didn't even gain has far more serious ramifications for the future, if this is indeed the way future judgements are to be made.

If we were to appeal I would seriously hope that we appear in front of a separate panel, on a separate day, to Hereford as considering our case on it's merits alone would surely mean that any panel would reach a different decision to the one reached today. I genuinely believe we would be more likely to succeed on appeal than Hereford but I guess we shall see.

[happytorq]

totally agree, and when you consider the punishments handed out to clubs in financial difficulties, -10 points, you're just punishing clubs/players already in trouble. i know argylle are local rivals and all that, but from a football point of view, it's not nice to see, and a club desperately in need of a break, just gets an almighty kick in the balls. it's amazing someone actually sat down, wrote some of these rules, and thought, "yeah, that's a fair way of dealing with it".

Problem with that is that the alternative is fining teams in financial trouble, which really isn't going to get you very far. I think 10 point penalty needs to stay as a warning to clubs to run themselves better. The game needed to do something to deter clubs from living way beyond their means, and this is probably the best way to do it.

[EDIT - basil75 apparently said pretty much the exact same thing as me.]

[basil75]

After a little more digging into the Accrington case - it's an even bigger kick in the teeth

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/footbal ... 432183.stm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

They did it in TWO consecutive matches were they got 4 points and weren't deducted any.

It wasn't even a deadline mistake - the player wasn't actually even legally registered to play for them at all.

EDIT: and they did it a THIRD time with a different player as well.

[Dave]

It may not do today, but it could quite easily mean the world come 5pm on the 7th May though! :S

I just don't think the punishment handed out to us is fair. They (the FL panel) have only acted in this way in an effort to try and be "fair" to Hereford in my opinion. I am 99.9% sure that if Hereford hadn't have made their mistake in the same game then we would have got a slap on the wrist, a big fine and the result would have stood. There is no way they would have deucted point(s) as it has never happened before. We have played a player we shouldn't have in a game where we gained no advantage quite simply as we lost, why should we be punished with a point deduction which in effect has been achieved in a totally unrelated game!

However, I do agree that we shouldn't bother with an appeal as the system is totally flawed and they (the FL) will inevitably uphold the decision reached by the panel - they just don't have the balls to ever overturn anything, do they? At least, not in the case of a "minnow" like us!

Totaly argee with your sentiment,and that of all the other poster's,we have lost a point gained fairly,which is down to Hereford making the same mistake,agree if they had not we would have lost no point's,i warned of this in a few reply's yesterday,that it was likely we would lose points,because of Hereford making the same mistake,and it is not fair.

The reason why i say it change's nothing is because 62 points/61 points mean's we still require the same number of wins to get to what i think will be enough points for promotion or a play-off place,3 point deduction would have meant the team would have needed to find an extra win.

It's still down to the team,we have 6 games left win them,and we atleast will have a play-off place,as we still 7th.

[basil75]

Leeds also once had 6 loan players on the pitch - so had 1 ineligible player - lost the game and were only fined.

[Sesimbra]

It is difficult to understand why Hereford think they are hard done by vis-a-vis Torquay. They acquired 3 points by default whilst Torquay, although equally negligent, gained nothing. Torquay were penalised one point whilst Hereford merely had their spurious win cancelled without penalty of points deduction. It is Torquay who have reason to believe that they have been penalised unfairly. If Torquay has to suffer a point deduction then surely Hereford should have four points deducted.
I do believe however that appealing the decision is high risk in view of the bombastic attitude of the FA to smaller clubs.

[SuperNickyWroe]

lets face facts.

the football league is run by a set of w**kers that couldnt organise a p**s up in a brewery.

they have no idea and frankly never will.

[Wonderland]

All we seem to be worried about is the one point deduction.

Have we forgotten about the £10K ? Unfair has it appears- it is a fact and to appeal would probably be futile in my mind - which I mention later in this missive.

Someone has to stump up to pay this. Not us the fans, but the hard stretched coffers of the Club - or a kitty from the directors. We already suffer with a reduced player budget, and the home gates fall well short of the running costs of the club. So I have a suggestion.

Could we not have covered buckets at a match asking us the supporters to stump up some cash ?

OK - it is not our fault or problem. But it would be showing a tremendous support for the club if we contributed to the problem and can forget about the £10k ,

On a gate of 2,500 @ £4.0 each would do it.

Or 20% of the said home gate - @ £20.00 per person that would clear it.

Any surplus over the £10K - now I am dreaming - could be donated to the Trust fund - which would benefit the club.

I mentioned to my fellow travelling supporter Pete this afternoon - and he said he would cough up.

I have only missed 2 games home and way in 4 years - I had pneumonia that fortnight! - but my weekly spend for an away match far exceeds £20.00 and I certainly would dig deep to support my club.

I am not in agreement with an appeal, since the general malaise handed down by the Legislators when dealing with these matters, they almost invariably add to the punishment- almost to say 'what a sauce for the audacity that you dare appeal against us , your learned superiors of high intellect!'

We would be far from happy if on the 4th May they made it impossible to move on to the play-offs .

Any comments than S!d - off!


Den

[ferrarilover]

Alright Den, Ma, Pa and I are all wondering if Pete will pay our £20 too? I would like to know also, if the club don't ask for it, can I have the £20 in cash?

It's a nice idea, paying the fine for the club, and I'm sure it'll be welcomed if it happens, but I'm SO angry at the idea that we have been more harshly treated than Hereford (aggregate of -1 point v aggregate of 0 pts, and our fine is effectively larger) for committing the same offense, then having the bottle to admit it rather than hiding and hoping the League wouldn't notice, that the magnitude of the fine had rather passed me by.

Oh well, on to appeal and hope to get a more balanced view from them, if not CAS here we come!

Matt.

[tufcbrett]

Wonderland i agree with you. Not our problem as fans but it will restrict the clubs future spending. With our currect form and how we are performing. Even if we dont go up or finish in play offs we cant to build on what we got to have a real push. That 10k could be the difference on a player or two that could add more quality.

I would happily donate money to help the club. I know not everyone would agree in paying money but i think if everyone gave even £1 that would really help. The more the better and we all know its a good idea.

Can anyone try getting it sorted?

[exilegull]

I can't believe that Hereford are moaning and asking for the same punishment - it should have been the same, a loss of all points gained in any fixture that the unregistered players played in.

The fine is disgusting - £10k for two clubs who continually struggle to survive financially. Would a premiership club be fined a similar proportion of its annual revenue for a similar type offence - of course not.

[CP Gull]

Excellent take on events here:

http://www.twohundredpercent.net/?p=11766

I really do think the FA are setting a dangerous precedent here and one wonders whether the three man panel are really aware of the precedent they have created with this ridiculous decision. If they are consistent in the future then this sanction (a 1 point penalty) would need to be levied against all teams that transgess in the future, regardless of the result(s) of the match(es) concerned. Of course, if they were consistent (fat chance!) in their thinking then Hereford should have been deducted 4 points rather than three - which would have been quite frankly ridiculous for a relatively minor transgression.

[happytorq]

Excellent take on events here:

http://www.twohundredpercent.net/?p=11766

I'll be honest, the spelling mistake in the title doesn't fill me with confidence...

....but having read it, it's a good piece.

[edited to add opinion of article]