Gus off to Hull

[Teigngull]

20th place in leg 2 ........ oh those heady heights ....... Nose bleed territory.... confined to history now I fear........ well , we can only dream ....ZZZZZZzzzzzzz.......

[Yorkieandy]

.....and too think that a few years ago I got slated constantly on here for saying I'd take 20th place in league 2 for the next 20yrs.....
if only....

You should know that you don't get any kudos on here for calling it right Chris. As i did when fans were hoping for an instant return to the football league upon relegation whilst i predicted the club wouldn't even exist in 10 years from then. It's not nice but i'd say the club are closer to extinction than league 2 at the moment however neither myself or them are right as it stands as it's ongoing.

Not that it matters who is right and who is wrong but the abuse you get from those who gleefully delight in telling you how wrong they think you are does make you feel like pointing out a few home truths when what you predicted does happen or looks like it's happening. It's the abuse and narkiness that you get from people who disagree that makes you want to say 'i told you so' and not so much because you want to make out like you are some know it all. It doesn't go down well claiming you predicted something that came true, especially if it has negative / detrimental outcomes. Again, human nature i suppose which is puzzling.

It's the hidden reasons behind telling people you were right about a particular thing that is the key point and again, most human beings like to hide things and not be open with others for some reason which makes things very very difficult to interpret often. I would point out that i was right about a certain thing purely because i would feel angry that something could have been done about it at the time had enough people had a more open mind. A criticism very often levelled at me actually. . Chris no doubt saw that having a secure place in the football league was the best way for the club to survive and prosper going forward and so long as TUFC had a team to go and watch in the league then regardless of results and performance, that's the main and most important thing.

At the time we were struggling under Ling / Knill i didn't agree and i wanted to watch a club with ambition and that tried to bust out of the 'little old Torquay' mindset and achieve things. I'm sure given a different set of circumstances this could have happened but I got that wrong and Chris was right. I was spoiled by the football under Leroy and Buckle to a certain extent as that' all i had ever seen from a Torquay side so when i was faced with the style Ling adopted of keeping it tight and trying to nick every game 1-0 then i wasn't happy as i'd seen others approach the game in a style that more suits my opinion of the way the game should be played.

Ling was amazingly successful in his first season playing this way and despite me going to many, many games and seeing victories, tbh i was bored watching and it became a standing joke on the terraces away that 1-0 would do. Likewise if we went a goal down we all knew a win would be totally out of the question. Going 1-0 down usually meant a defeat, a draw if we were lucky. I always maintained at the time that i would rather see Ling set us up to get at teams from the off and simply try and score more than the opposition whilst busting a gut to try and score goals and if we got beat then i'm fine with that. I still maintain that a better balance could have been achieved by Ling however he won games and had a tactic and had the personnel to be able to do this so on the face of it he did superbly.

It was the expectation gap i had between the result i wanted on a matchday and the style of football undertaken by Ling that was too great and i was unreasonable in my demands. Personally i was happy that Ling was relieved of his duties but obviously appalled in the manner it was done. The next few managerial appointments after Ling hit home to me that wanting Ling sacked (for purely footballing reasons) and expecting another manager to come into a small league 2 football club and get the players in that would enable us to play like Barcelona, it hit home to me that i knew pretty much nothing about lower league football and had been spolied and naive. Sad thing was that Knill and Hargreaves also knew **** all about lower league football but they had the luxury of being paid for their lack of knowledge.

I think now, going forward, it's important to consider that at that time, the expectations of some fans were OTT and although it's not our fault that the club find itself where it is now every fan needs to have realistic expectations of where the clubs natural standing is right now. Taking into account the crowds, the lower calibre of players available to us next season, geographical position and wages likely to be offered in the NLS then i think expectations need to be revised. Being a top 10 NLS club is what we should be happy with all things considered with promotion back to the NL now a dream rather than an expectation. Unless something dramatically changes with the ownership of the club.

Maybe we should be really saying now that we'd take 20th place in the NL for the next 20 years!

[Scott Brehaut]

So, just so that I understand this right, you want any money from sell on clauses to NOT be used by the club in any way they see fit if they weren’t around at the time of the sale?

What if, for example, those in charge of the club when the sell on fee was agreed, left the club in the shit, and whomever took over dragged the club back in to the black, and was making a good go of getting the club promoted? They should be “punished” for not being here when the deal was first struck?

Sometimes I wonder what planet you are on Andy.

[Parkys People]

So Angus MacDonald, any news on his transfer?

[Yorkieandy]

So, just so that I understand this right, you want any money from sell on clauses to NOT be used by the club in any way they see fit if they weren’t around at the time of the sale?

What if, for example, those in charge of the club when the sell on fee was agreed, left the club in the shit, and whomever took over dragged the club back in to the black, and was making a good go of getting the club promoted? They should be “punished” for not being here when the deal was first struck?

Sometimes I wonder what planet you are on Andy.

Same here mate, same here.

Yes it's a good point Scott and the reverse of the example i gave. I don't want CO 'rewarded' for something he's had no involvement in because of that but also because that money will not be spent in a positive manner for the club.

If you get an owner that clearly demonstrates and has demonstrated that they are really behind the club and it's fans by their actions and indeed their significant investment then yes, perhaps they should be allowed that sell on money as they would deserve it despite having no involvement so i do see your point.

Always good to get an alternative view that is easy to understand.

I should have just said that i don't want the money going to CO regardless.

[Yorkieandy]

Maybe it would be an idea for the managers involved in spotting and developing these 'sell on' players to get a cut? Maybe it would encourage them to look harder and to work harder trying to polish a rough diamond so that they get some monetary benefit themselves. Obviously the managers are getting paid by the club to do this anyway as part of their remit but it seems that most people nowadays are motivated by money and i would imagine that if managers were guaranteed a significant cut of any future sell on fees that they would be more motivated to get these players into the club and develop them in the hope they might come good. Better for them, better for the fans, better for the club, best all round.

[merse btpir]

Maybe it would be an idea for the managers involved in spotting and developing these 'sell on' players to get a cut?

That's already a time served part of most manager's contracts Andy

[Gulliball]

Massively unpopular with the fans though - as it's seen as incentivising the manager to sell your best players. A man you may know Andy, Jackie McNamara, was hated by Dundee United fans for selling off their golden generation of players at the first opportunity - as well as actively touting them to other clubs. Worst case scenario was selling their two best players, Stuart Armstrong and Gary Mackay-Steven, to Celtic on January deadline day - when they were shortly due to face Celtic in both the League Cup final and Cup quarter-final. They lost both those cup games, went on an awful run of form and finished outside the European places in the league, and then were relegated the following season. Fans later found out that the manager was taking a cut of transfer income and it didn't go down well... To get a group of players like Andy Robertson, Ryan Gould, Stuart Armstrong, Gary Mackay-Steven, John Souttar, Nadir Çiftçi and David Goodwillie in the same period should have been the basis to challenge at the very top of the table (especially with no Rangers in the league), but they actually ended up in the second division.

[SuperNickyWroe]

So Angus MacDonald, any news on his transfer?

nowt yet.

[Bomber]

nowt yet.

Apparently the Gus deal could see a striker move in the opposite direction.

http://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/sport/fo ... er-1145417

[SuperNickyWroe]

Apparently the Gus deal could see [highlight=yellow]a striker move in the opposite direction[/highlight].

http://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/sport/fo ... er-1145417

If its who I've just been told it is, then the deal might not happen.

[Yorkieandy]

Massively unpopular with the fans though - as it's seen as incentivising the manager to sell your best players. A man you may know Andy, Jackie McNamara, was hated by Dundee United fans for selling off their golden generation of players at the first opportunity - as well as actively touting them to other clubs. Worst case scenario was selling their two best players, Stuart Armstrong and Gary Mackay-Steven, to Celtic on January deadline day - when they were shortly due to face Celtic in both the League Cup final and Cup quarter-final. They lost both those cup games, went on an awful run of form and finished outside the European places in the league, and then were relegated the following season. Fans later found out that the manager was taking a cut of transfer income and it didn't go down well... To get a group of players like Andy Robertson, Ryan Gould, Stuart Armstrong, Gary Mackay-Steven, John Souttar, Nadir Çiftçi and David Goodwillie in the same period should have been the basis to challenge at the very top of the table (especially with no Rangers in the league), but they actually ended up in the second division.

Yes i was aware of this Chris thanks. That's why the going's on down at York are looking a bit sinister. McNamara is now CEO of the the club and responsible for identifying players and bringing them in. This a guy who brought in nearly 40 players and still got sacked for taking the club out of the football league and to the brink of regional football. His reward for being sacked and having signed a stack of useless players on 2 year deals was to be given a better job overseeing the running of the whole football club in what many fans think is part of a secret business deal between himself and the owner. Certainly there is no logic to it all.

[CraigUnder]

Signing confirmed on Sky Sports News.. I wonder how much we will get from this ‘undisclosed fee’

[westyorkshiregull]

Why undisclosed ?? I knows it's not uncommon , I assume it will be with add ons ECT ect....bet we next to nothing on it

[merse btpir]

Why undisclosed ??

'cos it's none of your ruddy business! :slap: