Gary Owers

[SuperNickyWroe]

And as we all know a team with a low budget has absolutely no chance of achieving anything. I mean just take a look at the National League table, it's not like the team who are top have one of the lowest budgets in the league is it? Oh hang on....

Okay then maybe look at the League Two table then.....oh.

Well at least we can say that this holds true at higher levels, [highlight=yellow]I mean there is no way that a team with the lowest budget in the Championship could have got promoted to the Premier League last season is there? What's that? Huddersfield you say? Well bugger me[/highlight]! :na:

er, actually burton, then Rotherham then Barnsley had the lowest budgets in the championship....

[arcadia]

It isn't rocket science to work out why Williams has had more clubs than Lindsay Lohan, his attitude is piss poor and has always been even back in his Tyro League days. I bet the Bromley manager isn't crying over him leaving just like a succession of his previous managers didn't either.

Seeing as you aren't using your brain on this issue perhaps you're better off concentrating on something else

When I brought this up at the start of the season you said the same but Williams is a good player and if we had kept him we would have been safe by now. It was bad management to get rid of him and you only get rid of a player if you can replace him with a better player. :}

[Southampton Gull]

I've never said anything about his ability, that isn't why he's a journeyman player. His attitude is all wrong and don't be surprised if and when Owers runs into the same problems almost all his previous managers have.

[Southampton Gull]

Jerry, none of those teams you mentioned have had the kind of budget our previous management had to work with, not even close. I'm not using it as an excuse it's a fact borne out by Stephen Breed.

It might have been easier in the more populated areas but not in the south west. For a pedant you're not exactly on the money here.

[merse btpir]

I'm not saying you're claiming it is Dave; but it's not all down to being able to pay a higher wage than other clubs and there are more ways to skin a cat so to speak..............

........and Nicholson did recognise that pitch time opportunity, the creation of a suitable environment to progress your career and 'player friendly' training ground ambience was the way to attract signings. Football is a young man's game and quite often the monetry aspect of it takes second place in a certain character's mind than finance. Incentifying players through a positive win/league position and final league placing bonus system is also something that can overcome a low basic.

Part-time and lower level full-time football is awash with players in the major population areas who will move from here to there for an extra few quid ~ we need the other type of player at Torquay and the fact that the squad is top heavy with young loanees looking for those opportunities indicative of that.

I am sure Owers is exactly the same as Nicholson in the respect that managers/coaches want players who want to listen, learn and self-improve. Would you put Brett Williams in that category? Possible not and with Dave knowing him better than I he would probably say not ~ that would indicate why he moves on so frequently.

[Southampton Gull]

I like Brett Williams as a player but even my kids would tell you he's an arrogant little cockwomble and they've played with and against him over the years. I'm not defending the previous manager for the sake of it, he was a novice that's for sure but for as many flaws he had he also had great pluses for a club like ours. The problem with trying to gauge whether he was any good or not compared to other managers is that very few have to deal with the kind of constraints he did. that is and always will be my defence of him. It isn't because he's my best mate, it's because the facts are there for anyone who chooses to look deep enough. Owers has struggled to match him and he's had the kind of support and backing that Nicholson never did.

Enough of that anyway, sooner or later we will be reminded of the drawbacks in Williams character, my guess is it will come out in a rash of stupid bookings, a couple of sulky substitutions and it'll be interesting to see how Owers and his sidekick handle that side of his game. I'm not so sure they will find it any easier than a whole host of other managers.

As for the money aspect, you may well be correct that it isn't always prevalent in a players mind but you can bet your life that most of these players have an agent in the background making sure that money is the deciding factor. I could list endless examples of half decent players that we targetted only to realise we were offering half of what was available at other clubs. Lafayette was offered to us while he was at Eastleigh and we were a grand a week short of what he wanted to come to us, that is typical of what was happening each time a player was put on our radar. I actually don't think money was always the drawback, it was the fact we're so far from the kind of areas that allow players access to so many clubs like London, the midlands or the north west for example. It's just a fact of life that without attractive financial packages or longer deals we won't get the players needed for national level football unless they are loanees or players looking to prove themselves. When you start to become successful it gets easier but that's the vicious circle we are in now in so far as without a team pushing for promotion it'll be difficult to sign the kind of players you and I would both like to see in a yellow shirt.

[Jerry]

Jerry, none of those teams you mentioned have had the kind of budget our previous management had to work with, not even close. I'm not using it as an excuse it's a fact borne out by Stephen Breed.

It might have been easier in the more populated areas but not in the south west. For a pedant you're not exactly on the money here.

No doubt he did have a small budget and I wasn't suggesting he should have got us promoted or anything like that. The examples I noted were obviously extreme cases used to make the point that it's not all down to the size of the budget. Good managers achieve positions above where their budget sits in the league table.

To be fair, not being privy to the budgets of all the other clubs in the league, I don't actually know whether Nicho did this or not.

I just tire of people harping on about budgets as if it's the be all and end all of football management.

And as a pedant I feel the need to ask what in my earlier point was pedantic?

[WHG]

Not a Nico fan but budgets do play a part in who you can get to play for you though.
At the start of the season Nico offered Williams a reduced contract because he wasn't allowed to offer him what he was on before. Therefore Williams turned him down and moved on which is fair enough.
Owers was allowed to offer him more so he accepted.
Things might well of been different if Nico was given the same leeway as Owers over the budget.

[Yorkieandy]

Mostly agree with Jerry here.

A stellar budget has allowed Jose Mourinho to bring in Paul Pogba but the management of him has turned him into a pub player overnight.

A crap budget has allowed Sean Dyche to bring in Ashley Barnes and the management of him has turned him into something decent.

Obviously a lot depends on the players attitude but it doesn't matter who you sign or how much for, the key is getting the most out of them. Something Owers has failed to do with pretty much all of his.

[Southampton Gull]

Not a Nico fan but budgets do play a part in who you can get to play for you though.
At the start of the season Nico offered Williams a reduced contract because he wasn't allowed to offer him what he was on before. Therefore Williams turned him down and moved on which is fair enough.
Owers was allowed to offer him more so he accepted.
Things might well of been different if Nico was given the same leeway as Owers over the budget.

Precisely the point I've been making. The budget is obviously at the forefront of any plans to bring in suitable players but we also have other disadvantages compared to similarly sized clubs in more densely populated areas. It all adds up in making the managers job more difficult than most so we make use of the fact that it's a beautiful part of the country etc but that doesn't impress younger players in the same way it does with players looking to move with young families in tow. That then requires security of longer contracts, another facet used to beat our previous management with. I just wish people would take all this into account instead of banging the same monotonous drum every other day.

[arcadia]

I like Brett Williams as a player but even my kids would tell you he's an arrogant little cockwomble and they've played with and against him over the years. I'm not defending the previous manager for the sake of it, he was a novice that's for sure but for as many flaws he had he also had great pluses for a club like ours. The problem with trying to gauge whether he was any good or not compared to other managers is that very few have to deal with the kind of constraints he did. that is and always will be my defence of him. It isn't because he's my best mate, it's because the facts are there for anyone who chooses to look deep enough. Owers has struggled to match him and he's had the kind of support and backing that Nicholson never did.

Enough of that anyway, sooner or later we will be reminded of the drawbacks in Williams character, my guess is it will come out in a rash of stupid bookings, a couple of sulky substitutions and it'll be interesting to see how Owers and his sidekick handle that side of his game. I'm not so sure they will find it any easier than a whole host of other managers.

As for the money aspect, you may well be correct that it isn't always prevalent in a players mind but you can bet your life that most of these players have an agent in the background making sure that money is the deciding factor. I could list endless examples of half decent players that we targetted only to realise we were offering half of what was available at other clubs. Lafayette was offered to us while he was at Eastleigh and we were a grand a week short of what he wanted to come to us, that is typical of what was happening each time a player was put on our radar. I actually don't think money was always the drawback, it was the fact we're so far from the kind of areas that allow players access to so many clubs like London, the midlands or the north west for example. It's just a fact of life that without attractive financial packages or longer deals we won't get the players needed for national level football unless they are loanees or players looking to prove themselves. When you start to become successful it gets easier but that's the vicious circle we are in now in so far as without a team pushing for promotion it'll be difficult to sign the kind of players you and I would both like to see in a yellow shirt.

I spoke to Kuhl about Williams the first game they had in the Devon Cup and Kulh new all about him and knows about his attitude but sometimes managers have to put up with certain things and learn how to get the best out of a player like that not dump him because he's a little edgy. I was told that they had already managed or coached Bret.

[arcadia]

You never know he might even be left out today.

[Rjc70]

I believe Kuhl was assistant manager at Aldershot when Williams was there, Arcadia.

[westyorkshiregull]

Like a lot of work places these days it's about managing a person and getting the best out if them. It's never been much different and maybe these days it's more difficult with social media and media in general especially high profiles players. Couldn't imagine Brian clough putting up with nonsense especially social media postings and players getting the hump over not being picked.

[Southampton Gull]

Did you not bother to read the post by WHG?