Torquay United unveil huge plan for 10,000-seater stadium.

[SenorDingDong]

Reading has been rubble since 2008. Osborne mentioned a shiny new stadium quite a few times then disappeared off the scene there. The sport has not returned to the town.

Swindon still operates, but their new stadium has not happened, the old one remains, and it is surrounded by housing. Many are fearing a fate similar to Reading many years on from the first time a new stadium at Swindon first successfully got plannning permission, many years ago, for only housing to subsequently be built.

Interestingly, at Swindon, Osborne suggested in 2007 that they could groundshare at Reading for a year for the construction of their new stadia. Not sure how that might have panned out with Reading being demolished soon after on GI’s watch.

GI was not involved in building new stadia from scratch at either of Swindon or Poole.

Lets not forget as well that there was a brief attempt to get rid of Swindon Speedway alltogether at the site before local complaints from both fans and a councillor managed to make GI change their mind. Osborne is a land developer, trying to match his success at Bristol Rovers (£20m profit from IKEA) and Swindon nothing more, nothing less.

[SenorDingDong]

On Facebook Kevin Foster says Osborne has had dialogue with Mayor Gordon Oliver but not the Councillors.

Shades of Chris Roberts and Nick Bye here!

For anyone that wants to see the conversation see below, interesting to note that's probably Jim Parker's most critical comment about Clarke Osborne...

[MellowYellow]

My guess would be "plans" for a mini identikit football ground and a large shed for the arena.

Even that would be more than Osborne has ever delivered to date.

[Dazza]

The whole plan is of course a total con. Build on a football pitch and it produces 40 million?! . It is the birth child of a despot. Even a four year old could see straight through it. Unless this is to be built at the model village site at Babbacombe it's clearly totally ( and intentionally ) unviable . It is just a cheap attempt at a land grab pandering to the pure greed of a group of men at the cost of generations of football supporters. It's totally and utterly shameful. Anyone running with this scheme simply has no soul at all.

[MellowYellow]

Thank God we have an MP who has an understanding of the workings of a football club.

Snippets from Devon Live/Herald Express Article

Torbay MP Kevin Foster has said he is sceptical about whether the finances behind Torquay United’s proposed new 10,000-seater stadium, hotel, homes and event arena stack up.

"You can easily get excited by grand plans, pretty pictures and promises of promotion," says Kevin Foster as Torquay United stadium plans remind him of Coventry's RIcoh Arena plans.

Click link for full article:

https://www.devonlive.com/news/devon-ne ... ay-1826016

[lucy6lucy]

Why does everything have to be so complicated with Torquayunited. Is it really that hard to have an ownership that wants success for the fans and indeed themselves . Bring back Bateson, he was a tight arse but had the clubs interest as priority.

[MellowYellow]

The whole plan is of course a total con. Build on a football pitch and it produces 40 million?! .

Correct on the first assumption,but we have been thrown a curve ball on the second. The repeated topic of "The future of Plainmoor cannot be considered until the new stadium development is completed", is a red herring. You will soon find out that the development of Plainmoor is not a condition of the new plans. So basically, the plan will be to build houses on Nightingale Park first, recoup the investment 10 fold then dump the plans to build a multi-event stadium and also off-load Plainmoor and demand the loans back from Torquay Utd. In simple terms we are f***k*d!

[greb46]

And presumably Mr. Oliver knows the intention too and where there's money involved there is no such thing as a person beyond price,not that for one minute I'm saying that is the case.

[tomogull]

Correct on the first assumption,but we have been thrown a curve ball on the second. The repeated topic of "The future of Plainmoor cannot be considered until the new stadium development is completed", is a red herring. You will soon find out that the development of Plainmoor is not a condition of the new plans. So basically, the plan will be to build houses on Nightingale Park first, recoup the investment 10 fold then dump the plans to build a multi-event stadium and also off-load Plainmoor and demand the loans back from Torquay Utd. In simple terms we are f***k*d!

I think you're barking up the wrong tree on this one, M.Y. Have you considered why the quaintly named Nightingale Park has not already been plastered by Cavanna 'little boxes' when virtually the whole 'Willows' area has been? It is because it is the site of the old Barton tip and can't be used for housing - that is why it is designated as 'recreational land'. I'm sure the end game, as previously stated on here several times, is for Plainmoor to be used as a sports field for The Spires (Westlands) School and housing built on the Quinta playing fields (nice area) which are currently used by the school.

Little has been said/written about the problems that will be faced - drainage being one of them - IF an arena or whatever is built on the Barton Tip. Although this has always been strongly rumoured to be the 'preferred site', I think this is the first time - an 'exclusive' claimed by Herald Express - that it has been stated it is definitely the site. :B
P.S. No self respecting nightingale would ever be seen/heard there!

[MellowYellow]

I think you're barking up the wrong tree on this one, M.Y. Have you considered why the quaintly named Nightingale Park has not already been plastered by Cavanna 'little boxes'... It is because it is the site of the old Barton tip and can't be used for housing.

I bow to your knowledge on Nightingale Park's housing development Tomogull. Nonetheless, there will be an a ‘enabling’ housing development which will supposely help to offset costs of a new Arena on the Nightingale site,. This will not be Plainmoor! Quinta playing fields? - sounds good to me. For Osborne, anywhere where there is no need to consider the future of the club or Plainmoor until the development is completed. Will not be long to find out!

[cambgull]

That would be good. A decent all-seater stadium that could push TUFC into the Championship, top acts coming west for music concerts, and Wasps could play there every other week instead of Truro City!

I was predominantly aiming at the fiasco regarding the rent increase which forced Coventry to move out to Northampton for a season, but it's nice to see a positive spin on things.

[cambgull]

The whole thing reminds me of the monorail...

[youtube][/youtube]

I think you're confusing two very different situations here...

... the monorail got built.

[torregull]

Why are GI named again? Well firstly as the media - 'BBC' - 'Devon Live' etc announce our Club owner as 'Clarke Osborne of Gaming International' why change a habit of a lifetime and confuse the issue.

You are factually correct that the club 'ownership' has now gone from Gaming International (a subsidiary of Clarke Osborne owned Toklon) to the sole ownership of Clarke Osborne. It remains in the same hands but is highly likely now indebted to Gaming International who funded the operation up till the transfer to Riviera Stadium Ltd and may well still be funding it.

Now you have to ask yourself is Clarke Osborne going to take out £40m from his 'back pocket' to fund this new 'multi-event arena' ? I think not! Riviera Stadium balance sheet show as net assets (or cash in hand) £999. So just £39,999 million to find. So you may find he will source some funding from a property development investment company such as Gaming International (suprise -suprise) who's subsidiary companies is complex as it is bleak - a series of dissolved companies and dreadful credit ratings.

Sorry your 'head hurts' but dont be resigned to the fact Osborne will get his own way. You may be right, but there are many who are willing to stand up and be heard so that its not all 'one way traffic'. One must remember that the real momentum for freehold disposal comes, not from councillors; but the un-elected officers of the Torbay Development Agency and Osborne is well aware of that don't you worry! We need to be as well!

[__quiet__gull]

I think you're barking up the wrong tree on this one, M.Y. Have you considered why the quaintly named Nightingale Park has not already been plastered by Cavanna 'little boxes' when virtually the whole 'Willows' area has been? It is because it is the site of the old Barton tip and can't be used for housing - that is why it is designated as 'recreational land'. I'm sure the end game, as previously stated on here several times, is for Plainmoor to be used as a sports field for The Spires (Westlands) School and housing built on the Quinta playing fields (nice area) which are currently used by the school.

Little has been said/written about the problems that will be faced - drainage being one of them - IF an arena or whatever is built on the Barton Tip. Although this has always been strongly rumoured to be the 'preferred site', I think this is the first time - an 'exclusive' claimed by Herald Express - that it has been stated it is definitely the site. :B
P.S. No self respecting nightingale would ever be seen/heard there!

Good points, the area is prone to flooding and smells of methane. It also sides onto the crematorium. I agree, why has Cavanna and alike pushed outwards rather than develop this piece of land. Simply because their is no land their that can be developed on. My friend who is not a builder but an architecture believes that it could also be tricky to develop any type of retail or leisure complex on the land, and that the developers would have to prove beyond reasonable doubt that there would be no health risks to participants, attendees, workers, neighbors and so on. I don't think the council would let Plainmoor be built on, that said, we have seen some pretty strange decisions made my Torbay Council over the past few decades.

The way is see it is that this will not progress, club debts will keep mounting and he will drive the club into administration at which point we will yet again be faced with searching for a savior.

If only my piggy bank was bigger!

[ferrarilover]

Before we run through the play-by-play, it's important to understand a few things:
The majority of locals have zero interest in TUFC.
Torbay is a Brexit heartland. Post-truth politics and 'alternative facts' tactics are proven to work here.
Osbourne is well versed in this...

We've already seen phase 1, the palm greasing.
The Gordon Oliver trophy? It's not subtle, it's disingenuous and it's so, so obviously a 'move'. All that was true of the £350m claim on the Big Red Bus, the people of Torbay absolutely lapped that up.

Phase 2 will be the public consultation.
It will be a chance to show off an artist's conception of what the place might (but won't) look like when finished. This is simply buying time for phase three...

Phase 3 will be after 19th March 2019; you'll see why in a sec.

Locals will be told two things/lies
1) that this project will create many jobs WHICH WILL GO TO BRITS NOT FORRINERZ!
2) That the council is cash-strapped and it's either increase revenue, or raise council rates

The locals will swallow this hook, line, and sinker.
They'll attack opponents as 'anti-British remoaners' and 'monied elites' who don't care if council tax goes up because they are 'the rich'.

Those opposing the new ground will be portrayed as ungrateful.

"I don't know what these football supporters want. They're getting a big new ground for free and they're still not happy. Typical Generation Snowflake, it's all me me me. Never satisfied. Bring back national service"

The justified concerns of fans will be ignored, because the argument against a new ground is counter-intuitive to the uninitiated. It is a nuanced argument, not easily portrayed in a 'Brexit means Brexit' or 'take back control' style soundbite.

Osbourne will point to Poole and Bristol Rovers and will be backed up by Masters who will point to the Stadium for Cornwall as a model of how these things do get completed.

The tales none of them will tell will be the those of decades of delays, tens of millions in wasted costs, exorbitant rents, stadia standing mostly empty even on days when they're actually being used because their supply massively outstrips demand. Event costs going sky high.

Again, opposition to these plans will be shouted down.

"They got there in the end, didn't they? Why can't you just believe in Torbay a bit more? We used to be the jewel in Britain's crown, then the EU came along, but we're free of them now. Make Torbay Great Again".

Further homes ("so your grandchildren don't have to move away") will be promised (and built, and immediately purchased by either local no-hopers, or Londoners wanting A Place By The Sea). No other amenities will follow. Local services will be put under increased pressure.

This increase will, as usual, be blamed on 'foreigners'. No one will look at the local demographic amd realise that Torbay doesn't have any foreigners.
By this point, it's too late anyway.

Uncle Clarke will break even on the house building. He'll make his money, inter alia, charging TUFC £20,000/month in rent.
It'll be Oxford United all over again.
£40 to get in. A fiver for a cup of tea. Others will hate coming here because of the cost.

We, as fans, will have to go to forums and local pre-match pubs and meekly apologise for the enormous cost, explaining that we're no happier than they are.

They will smile and nod and sympathise and wish us all the best for the season and pay us no further heed.

That's what's coming, folks, and that's how it will go down. Feel free to follow the thread through over the next 18-24 months and see it unfold before your very eyes.

Just one vision of hell that I conceived and whacked on Twitter yesterday.

Matt.