Racism in Football

[samuel]

Rare for me to start a thread but just an observation on the debate on TV this morning. Flitting around the channels trying to avoid politics I came across Piers Morgan on ITV holding court on the Raheem Stirling incident plus other matters involving racism generally. Morgan was sounding off, drowning out the two people who were guests putting their case forward that racism is still around in football. Over-talking them, not listening and being nothing short of a hectoring bully with his co host meekly, almost cowering beside him, Morgan almost made the case for the guests. After his diatribe and dismissive end to the conversation I switched over to BBC. After a few minutes John Barnes was on. What a contrast. He put things in to perspective in such an eloquent manner. I could have listened to him for ages. What an ambassador for the game and full credit to him. I would encourage anyone with catch up TV to see the contrasts between these two interviews. Well done John Barnes and shame on Piers Morgan.

I cannot remember any racist language or chants at Plainmoor, no doubt it has happened. Perhaps in my youth I didn't take any notice of such things in the 60's and 70's although I would like to think so.

[SuperNickyWroe]

Yes I saw the John Barnes interview - hes a great bloke.
As for racism, its still - and in my opinion - will always be around.

[happytorq]

I *have* heard racist language at Plainmoor. It wasn't chants at all, it was usually a muted snide comment, uttered sotto voce to somebody standing close to the issuer. The kind of thing where, if confronted, the guilty party would claim it was 'just banter'.

I'm glad that Sterling has confronted those in the media who have been treating him and others so unfairly. While part of me thinks that challenging the Daily Mail on race is only ever likely to be an entirely fruitless endeavour, at least it's being talked about now. There is less racism in the game now, but to pretend it has all gone away is naive at best, and wilfully ignorant at worst.

John Barnes has always spoken well on the issue - he had to deal with terrible stuff in the 80s and always seemed to have the dignity to ascend beyond it. Stan Collymore is another ex-player who has spoken about, although with Collymore he tends to rub people up the wrong way.

Look at Torquay- Leroy Rosenior did a tremendous job with us but was never really given a chance. didn't do well at Brentford, and never got another sniff. I don't know if that's down to racism, but I think we can all name at least half a dozen white managers who got gigs after one job went awry - it seems that for non-white managers, you only get one chance, if it goes wrong, that's it - you're out.

[Local-Gull]

Look at Torquay- Leroy Rosenior did a tremendous job with us but was never really given a chance. didn't do well at Brentford, and never got another sniff. I don't know if that's down to racism, but I think we can all name at least half a dozen white managers who got gigs after one job went awry - it seems that for non-white managers, you only get one chance, if it goes wrong, that's it - you're out.

I remember meeting Leroy at Plainmoor the day he joined us - asked him what his ambition was and he replied: "To be the first black England manager"

[wivelgull]

Sometime in the early nineties there was chap (local, small-time thief) who would occasionally attend home games. His contribution to events was always the same, a hoarse cry of 'O'd i'! O'd i! O'd i!' (translated as Hold it! Hold it! Hold it!). One game he began to make grunting gorilla-like noises at one of the opponents' black players. A lecturer at the South Devon College at the time (Head of Leisure studies) turned on him and berated him with such ferocity that said thief was never seen at Plainmoor again.
I know he was a thief because I had irrefutable evidence that he broke into my flat in Warren Road at the time and stole some records (like all thieves he completely ignored my books which were worth far more).

[Shangull]

I was watching Borehamwood vs Leyton Orient on BT Sport on Saturday. A Leyton Orient player had been fouled and in the background the microphone picked up the Borehamwood player being racially abused by a Leyton Orient fan. I'd not heard this at a football match for a good 20+ years.

[Dave]

Despite the stereo typing you get from some, often referring to Torbay and surrounding areas as racist, this area is in fact one of the most tolerant and safe for all races and religions, in all walks of life. Not saying it hasn't happened, and doesn't, but over the years I can't recall hearing anything remotely racist at Torquay games thankfully.

Football has come a long way from the days that I'm guessing started in the 1960's with Albert Johannson at Leeds who I believe was the first black player to appear in an F.A Cup final, often a victim of monkey chants and bananas thrown from the crowd, through to the late 70's early 80's which I remember as a kid more particularly with W.B.A, the work done and improvements we've seen over the years,is something to be celebrated, but there's always going to be more work to be done, improvements to be made.


One thing I will say, there must be separation between honest criticism and racism, we must be allowed to be critical constant under performing black players with out fear of being accused of causal, backhanded racism which is often happens.


Edit; Forgot to add, I believe that Hearts have recently banned two of their supporters for racism at their games.

[Rjc70]

I felt Sterling provided two very good examples from the Mail illustrating the point about the media that he was making.

I’ll not bother catching up on the Piers Morgan interview as he only likes the sound of his own voice and tends to do exactly as Sam notes quite often.

[grockle]

I cannot remember any racist language or chants at Plainmoor, no doubt it has happened. Perhaps in my youth I didn't take any notice of such things in the 60's and 70's although I would like to think so.

Unfortunately in the 60's and 70's racism was rife in all aspects of life. It was widely, but not universally, accepted as the norm. You can not change the past. Just be thankful that we have become a lot more civilised and do not tolerate such abuses as readily now. You are always going to get the odd occurrence by a very small minority. Unfortunately you will never stamp it out altogether.

[torregull]

There was a group on the pop side regularly making monkey noises when black players had the ball in the mid 80's-I and others reported it to the club and a statements were made in the press, programme etc,threatening action against the culprits. I've still got the copy of a letter I wrote condemning the actions of these racists,which was published in the Herald Express.It took a while to end completely- I remember one or two individuals' being "called- out" for racist comments by other supporters and made to look the ignorant bigots they were but thankfully,it's very rare to witness any racism,at Plainmoor,at least,these days.

[Modgull]

My son attended a match at Portsmouth a couple of seasons ago and had the misfortune to sit close to a so-called fan who continually racially abused black players in the opposition team.

He spoke to him calmly and asked him to desist but the guy continued so my son reported him to a steward at half-time. The man was identified and escorted to the club offices where he was questioned. My son was asked if he would give a statement which he did but ended up missing the whole of the second half as a result. He believes the case went to court but he received no thanks from either the authorities or PFC.

Despite this he says he would do the same if it happened again and I am proud of him for that.

[Southampton Gull]

I can well imagine how Mike responded to that, he's a credit to you Phil.

Piers Morgan is a voice of the establishment and has been shown many times to be totally out of touch with reality as his recent outburst against Father's kissing their children. He's a moron to use Brucie's favourite word.

What gets me is that Sterling was making a point against the mainstream media, the Daily Mail in particular yet they just revamped their story a couple of times and still ended up repeating their original point that he so strongly objected to. Just goes to show the folly of believing anything you read or listen to from the mainstream media.

[samuel]

How heartening to see the posts from Torregull and Modgull on the positive action taken. Principled behaviour especially when considering racism like this was not treated so seriously in the 80's. I would like to think any gay footballers who came out would now be afforded the same level of protection.

[MellowYellow]

One thing I will say, there must be separation between honest criticism and racism, we must be allowed to be critical constant under performing black players with out fear of being accused of causal, backhanded racism which is often happens.

I think a lot of people think this way but walk on egg-shells when wishing to criticise, in case a person is offended. We think of racism not being as bad today as in the 60's & 70s and I tend to agree and yet police figures showed the number of recorded racial offences increased by 57% between 2014-15 and 2016-17 with over 6,000 reported in the month of June 2016. This will now only increase with time now South Yorkshire Police have pleaded with the public to report non-crime hate incidents including any comments made on social media, (expect the percentage of recorded offences to increase 10 fold). On this basis it is difficult to see how we will ever rid society of racism in todays population that is genetically predisposed to empathy, when the rising percentages in recorded racial offences, is now based on being offended and transcribed to the police by a sensitive individual as a non-crime hate incident.

Although this is only a view-point no doubt someone will be offended by it. So I will not be surprised if I get a call from South Yorkshire Police. Not because I live in Yorkshire but because someone read it in Yorkshire and was offended. Worst still, I will have no say in it as I am not the one offended, so I am not the victim.

Be informed that a wolf-whistle is now listed as a non-crime hate incident if it offends a person - please stop the world I wont to get off!

[PhilGull]

I think a lot of people think this way but walk on egg-shells when wishing to criticise, in case a person is offended. We think of racism not being as bad today as in the 60's & 70s and I tend to agree and yet police figures showed the number of recorded racial offences increased by 57% between 2014-15 and 2016-17 with over 6,000 reported in the month of June 2016. This will now only increase with time now South Yorkshire Police have pleaded with the public to report non-crime hate incidents including any comments made on social media, (expect the percentage of recorded offences to increase 10 fold). On this basis it is difficult to see how we will ever rid society of racism in todays population that is genetically predisposed to empathy, when the rising percentages in recorded racial offences, is now based on being offended and transcribed to the police by a sensitive individual as a non-crime hate incident.

Although this is only a view-point no doubt someone will be offended by it. So I will not be surprised if I get a call from South Yorkshire Police. Not because I live in Yorkshire but because someone read it in Yorkshire and was offended. Worst still is I will have no say in it as I am not the one offended, so I am not the victim.

Be informed that a wolf-whistle is now listed as a non-crime hate incident if it offends a person - please stop the world I wont to get off!

Why would you want to 'wolf-whistle' someone? What makes you think it should be an acceptable thing to do?