sgf wrote: ↑21 Jan 2019, 21:31
A Liverpool fan being left brain damaged is thuggery. Leeds supporters getting knifed to death is thuggery. What I saw on Saturday was pissed up twats throwing air punches over a fence. Not condoning it but use perspective.
Flares were being lit in the city centre as soon as the fans got off the train. If they had one police officer in the city centre, which they did not, the club could have been aware. Again, not condoning but bath knew well in advance how many were coming and, like WSM, chose not to treat it as a higher risk game.
Just the presence of a few police would have nipped all of that on the bud
Perspective? Yes, murder or manslaughter in your quoted cases but I'll stick to thuggery for what I saw.
Another contributor has apparently condoned the use of flares but, I repeat, it is a criminal offence under the The Sporting Events (Control of Alcohol etc.) Act 1985 to attempt to enter a football ground with one or having gained entry to have one (let alone light it).
Whether or not Bath treated the match as 'higher risk' is not at issue here, that is a completely separate matter as is activity in the city centre.
gateman49 wrote: ↑21 Jan 2019, 21:51
So you know what they were or are you playing at semantics?
There is a difference between the two. I’m no Smoke Bomb/Flare differential expert and I appreciate the court may not distinguish in terms of illegality, but I would personally consider them less dangerous, albeit have seen the FSF pdf. http://www.fsf.org.uk/assets/Smoke-Bomb ... or-FSF.pdf
I don’t know if it was my post that you thought was condoning it, gateman. I wasn’t. Just pointing out what I believed I had seen.
gateman49 wrote: ↑21 Jan 2019, 21:49
Perspective? Yes, murder or manslaughter in your quoted cases but I'll stick to thuggery for what I saw.
Another contributor has apparently condoned the use of flares but, I repeat, it is a criminal offence under the The Sporting Events (Control of Alcohol etc.) Act 1985 to attempt to enter a football ground with one or having gained entry to have one (let alone light it).
Whether or not Bath treated the match as 'higher risk' is not at issue here, that is a completely separate matter as is activity in the city centre.
That was full blown Thuggery, it definitely wasn't handbags.
I also found a large chunk of our fans shouting and singing paedo at Ryan Clarke for the whole of the second half incredibly cringeworthy.
Whereas in the past I've taken many friends and colleagues to Torquay games, and always been excited about what they'd think of our away following/atmosphere, I wouldn't dream of it based on what I've seen this season.
gullsdiv2 wrote: ↑21 Jan 2019, 20:10
Dave out of interest did you approach Hampton to offer your security services or did they approach you? Is it something you may consider doing for the Chippenham game who will no doubt not have adequate stewarding for the amount of fans we will bring?
We usually cover Response positions at large stadia like Wembley, Twickenham, Olympic Stadium, St Mary's and the Madejski. We occasionally supply teams for Hampton for their bigger games and their stadium manager asked for me because of my connection to the club. I'm used to running 200 staff so it was a really small task for us, really enjoyable though.
To be honest I've missed a trick in not tendering for the higher risk games involving us. We can mobilise staff all round the country so I'll be getting the office to contact Chippenham although they've more than likely made their arrangements already.
Rjc70 wrote: ↑21 Jan 2019, 21:55
There is a difference between the two. I’m no Smoke Bomb/Flare differential expert and I appreciate the court may not distinguish in terms of illegality, but I would personally consider them less dangerous, albeit have seen the FSF pdf. http://www.fsf.org.uk/assets/Smoke-Bomb ... or-FSF.pdf
I don’t know if it was my post that you thought was condoning it, gateman. I wasn’t. Just pointing out what I believed I had seen.
Fair enough, thanks for clarifying, no, somebody else stated : I personally don’t have a problem with the odd smoke bomb or a couple of people spilling onto the pitch to celebrate a sling as it is good natured.
I think that the relevant Act makes no distinction between smoke bomb, flare or firework.
gateman49 wrote: ↑21 Jan 2019, 21:49
Perspective? Yes, murder or manslaughter in your quoted cases but I'll stick to thuggery for what I saw.
Another contributor has apparently condoned the use of flares but, I repeat, it is a criminal offence under the The Sporting Events (Control of Alcohol etc.) Act 1985 to attempt to enter a football ground with one or having gained entry to have one (let alone light it).
[highlight=yellow]Whether or not Bath treated the match as 'higher risk' is not at issue here, that is a completely separate matter as is activity in the city centre.[/highlight]
So you are saying that treating this game the same as if they were playing East Thurrock and the police not having a spotter at the station isn't relevant? Ok
I was not condoning the use of the flares of you read it back, merely pointing to the lack of stewardship and a small police presence. It was their biggest gate for 40 years........
Kernowgull wrote: ↑21 Jan 2019, 22:02
That was full blown Thuggery, it definitely wasn't handbags.
I [highlight=yellow]also found a large chunk of our fans shouting and singing paedo at Ryan Clarke for the whole of the second half incredibly cringeworthy. [/highlight]
Whereas in the past I've taken many friends and colleagues to Torquay games, and always been excited about what they'd think of our away following/atmosphere, I wouldn't dream of it based on what I've seen this season.
Fair enough if you heard that, I can only comment on what I saw/heard
sgf wrote: ↑21 Jan 2019, 22:12
So you are saying that treating this game the same as if they were playing East Thurrock and the police not having a spotter at the station isn't relevant? Ok
I was not condoning the use of the flares of you read it back, merely pointing to the lack of stewardship and a small police presence. It was their biggest
gate for 40 years........
Re. the first sentence, I merely state that that is a separate issue (which, as I have stated in other posts, clearly needs addressing). It is totally irrelevant to whether or not a person deliberately sets out to break the law which is the issue as far as I am concerned.
Re. the second sentence I haven't suggested that you condone the use of flares, smoke bombs or fireworks.
The real issue is that, in this league, we can double or triple a teams normal home gate. They are happy to trouser the cash, without accepting there may be an additional crowd control outlay on their part.
This results in 99.9% of the fans getting tarred with the same brush as the 0.1%. If you look on various non League groups on Facebook, other fans think we are knobs.
Have to put things right here, we were a group of 8 that caught the train from Torquay at 09.25. Yes, there were many of us drinking, (and laughing, and generally having a good time) by the time we got to Exeter there were around 400 ish Torquay fans on board (maybe more!)
At Exeter about 10 city fans got on the train, looking genuinely shocked to find it packed with Torquay. There was absolutely no trouble on board this train.
When we arrived at Bath, (12 ish) there was a small police presence on the platform (2 officers) with whom we enjoyed a bit of banter.
Our next stop was the wetherspoons pub central Bath, outside parked in the Triangle there were 2 police riot vans. out side the pub itself there were 4 officers. from time to time as more Torquay fans came in they walked through the pub, ensuring all were behaving.
Yes, it got louder, Yes people were singing, but absolutely no trouble.
We got taxis from the pub to the ground, so i cant comment on what, (if anything) happened en-route.
At the ground we were met with lots of Torquay fans all good natured, going in to the game.
Yes, there was some handbags in the corner, (Unfortunately they were Torquay fans, not Bristol, Not Swindon, Torquay)
No they had no colours, there again we didn't either!! They are Torquay fans that do not go to every game, but are non the less Torquay fans.
Our group manages to attend about 5, or 6 away games, we rarely go to home games as we all work full time.
The walk back to the station after the game was interesting, we attempted to enter a pub, to be met by two rather large gentlemen who said no football fans of either teem were being allowed entry, and as they physically pushed us out, told us to please go away and dont come back, (or words to that effect!!
At Bath station there was a huge police presence (total overkill) some of whom accompanied us all the way back to Torquay. (there were 4 in our compartment, cant speak for the rest of the train.
Again, absolutely no trouble, Yes people were drinking and singing, but no trouble.
At Torquay station, we were met by 4 police cars, go knows how many officers, and police dogs, (hungry by the sound of them) again, total overkill, and a complete waste of my taxes.
Now i do not often rant on forums, but had to get this out of my system.
Police/ the club knew that a large number of fans were going to travel on the train, they know that we like to have a drink, Why was there no official (police/stewards) accompanying us?? The answer is because we dont cause any trouble.
I know i am going to get slated for these comments, But i have exactly the same rights as any of you on this forum to express my opinion.
Now i am going to go away and plan my next away trip, no doubt it will be heavily policed due to the horrendous (minority) of fans we have.
But for us, another great away day. (and yes, flares and all!!)
P.S.
Thought as a team we choked, never showed any fight, and thoroughly deserved to lose, But im a Torquay fan (of 50 years) so im used to it!!!
Still...... enjoyed the day out though!!
I was on the 9.25 too. The Yellow Army Express as it was announced at Torquay station. Loads of Torquay fans, loud but good natured. I didn't go back as went on to London so can't comment on the return journey but there were loads more police at Bath station than needed.
Looks like the club & police were unprepared, then typical police overkill once there was a bit of trouble.
Thanks ministander please keep us updated as to which away game you will be at next.
I thought it would all probably be the fault of the police.
If our team choked it wasn't because of the occasion it was from those bloody flares thrown by so called Torquay supporters. I expect though somebody has evidence that it was actually plain clothes police officers throwing flares in order to justify having a few police officers around after the game in what is a tranquil sedate tourist city.
It is up to individual pubs whether they allow anybody in and many pubs across the country decide not to allow football fans in after games. Their decision is probably based on experience.
Glad you managed to behave though and that you didn't allow those nasty police to provoke you!
