Clarke Osborne

[Yorkieandy]

What has CO supposed to have 'delivered' exactly? He's been at the club for 3 years or so, promotion last season sees the club with the same league position as it was when he took over and now according to some posters the club are losing £1.5 million a season?

Wow. What an owner. He's really sent the club onto the next level.

Any owner of a lower league football club IMO needs to ensure that the club isn't liable to go tits up due to debt if they decide to pulls out. What happens to TUFC if CO pulls out? Does he write off the debt or make it difficult for other buyers, like at Chesterfield by demanding his money back and more leaving the club to fester once more because nobody is willing to pay it?

Arguably all CO has done is appoint a proven manager who knows his onions. In a league full of plasterers and carpenters it shouldn't have been too difficult for a man of GJ stature to turn things around. Impressively admittedly.

Anyway best of luck to the Torquay for this season. I'm really looking forward to seeing if the team can kick on from the platform GJ has given you.

[dawlishmatt]

Supernickywroe, I'll try and address the points that you raise in your last post.
Firstly, I believe that Osborne will get his money back not through selling the club but by the millions he hopes to make out of his development plans. Secondly, most successful businessmen at some point fail in certain projects they undertake. Peter Jones from the TV programme dragons den started with nothing, became a millionaire and then went but. He started again from scratch and is now one of Britain's richest men. Your final point, my source of information, well she's a relative of mine and is also a torbay Councillor who is heavily involved in the planning department of torbay Council. Clarke Osborne's representatives have had at least three unofficial meetings with torbay Council since the end of last season.

[exilegull]

What has CO supposed to have 'delivered' exactly? He's been at the club for 3 years or so, promotion last season sees the club with the same league position as it was when he took over and now according to some posters the club are losing £1.5 million a season?

Wow. What an owner. He's really sent the club onto the next level.

Any owner of a lower league football club IMO needs to ensure that the club isn't liable to go tits up due to debt if they decide to pulls out. What happens to TUFC if CO pulls out? Does he write off the debt or make it difficult for other buyers, like at Chesterfield by demanding his money back and more leaving the club to fester once more because nobody is willing to pay it?

Arguably all CO has done is appoint a proven manager who knows his onions. In a league full of plasterers and carpenters it shouldn't have been too difficult for a man of GJ stature to turn things around. Impressively admittedly.

Anyway best of luck to the Torquay for this season. I'm really looking forward to seeing if the team can kick on from the platform GJ has given you.

I'm firmly in the "highly skeptical of Clarke Osborne" camp, but the club has pretty much been dying on its arse for the best part of 40 years. Mike Bateson just about kept it on life support with some bursts of enthusiasm along the way but also was blessed some good fortune that kept the dream alive. He certainly took a substantial personal loss on the club.

Roberts took over and in the space of about 6 months burned through about half a million of someone's pension money, while the team died on the pitch, before Bateson stepped in again to prevent immediate liquidation and protect his small amount of interest.

The club the get fortunate, had a group of enthusiastic local businessmen who no doubt also sunk some personal funds in, but good progress on the pitch and some renewed enthusiasm allowed them to keep it going for a while on a partly self sustaining basis, but as soon as the club was back in league 2 and not really going anywhere it then burned through a couple of million of lottery winnings.

The club was well in decline and pretty much on its last legs when Osborne finally took over and there is no way he could snap his fingers and make it sustainable without going part time. Whatever his motives, it is clear he has sunk substantial amounts of his own money to get the club out of the National League South and make sure the club is competitive and has a real chance of getting league football, which is a must but absolutely no guarantee of longer term financial sustainability and survival.

There is very little chance Osborne is getting any substantial money back, short of getting what he wants with the land for Plainmoor for housing. Sure he might be able to strong arm the council - that strategy is risky, but at least it has prevented the club from sinking altogether.

Finally, putting Osborne aside, do many people disagree that the only chance of longer term survival for the club is a new stadium that provides the opportunity for substantial non-football related revenues?

[standupsitdown]

These are what I consider the most likely scenarios.

1. Osborne doesn’t get the freehold and makes a deal to sell the club whereby he only gets back a small proportion of his investment. Possible as may be the best way he can get some money back.

2. Osborne doesn’t get the freehold and liquidates the club. AFC formed playing at Plainmoor. Similar to Hereford. I believe that we have the support for an AFC to exist at at least National League level (if based at Plainmoor).

3. Osborne gets the freehold and builds a new ground which is suitable for our needs and with new income streams such as a hotel, with the ground, freehold and income streams owned by the club (not another Osborne company). Similar to Burton Albion I think.

4. Osborne gets the freehold and builds a new ground but ownership of the stadium and other income streams are in another company not the club. Club pays rent (maybe set low for a period of time as part of the deal) and is less secure and with similar income to present. Similar to West Ham or Coventry, benefits owner but not club or fans.

5. Osborne gets the freehold but doesn’t build a new ground. Club has to ground share, with low crowds and goes bust. AFC formed playing at Buckland or similar but never able to move out of local leagues.

Only 2 & 3 would give any long term security for the club.

[SuperNickyWroe]

Supernickywroe, I'll try and address the points that you raise in your last post.
Firstly, I believe that Osborne will get his money back not through selling the club but by the millions he hopes to make out of his development plans. Secondly, most successful businessmen at some point fail in certain projects they undertake. Peter Jones from the TV programme dragons den started with nothing, became a millionaire and then went but. He started again from scratch and is now one of Britain's richest men. Your final point, my source of information, well she's a relative of mine and is also a torbay Councillor who is heavily involved in the planning department of torbay Council. Clarke Osborne's representatives have had at least three unofficial meetings with torbay Council since the end of last season.

I'm not interested - like most other TUFC supporters, in Peter Jones.
As many on here are at pains to point out, its his development plans that are causing the issue with Osborne.
As for "unofficial meetings" they count for nothing.

[dawlishmatt]

SupernickyWroe, I give up. You and SouthamptonGull are two people who are so blinded by hatred of Clarke Osborne that it's obvious whatever I or anyone else say about him, you are not open to changing your opinion of the Man. I guess that you are one of the many people who were against Gaming international taking over the club even before they took ownership. My guess is that if Torquay were to win the premier League, the champions League and the F A cup under Osborne's ownership you would still complain because we didn't win the league cup.!!!!!!!!

[grockle]

At the end of the day, if Gaming International had not taken over, when they did, TUFC would almost certainly not exist today. If Tufc did still exist, it would be at a much lower level than we are at present ,as a phoenix club. Look at what happened with Hereford.

[Teigngull]

SupernickyWroe, I give up. You and SouthamptonGull are two people who are so blinded by hatred of Clarke Osborne that it's obvious whatever I or anyone else say about him, you are not open to changing your opinion of the Man. I guess that you are one of the many people who were against Gaming international taking over the club even before they took ownership. My guess is that if Torquay were to win the premier League, the champions League and the F A cup under Osborne's ownership you would still complain because we didn't win the league cup.!!!!!!!!

Matt, I'd save your breath if I were you.
SNW & Dave are just biding their time so they can raise their ugly mugs & say I told you so, that day may very well come but ffs let's enjoy the ride on the way to hell, I'd bet my house on the fact that if GJ gets the slightest whiff of it going tits up he'll be off damn quick.

[Scott Brehaut]

Yeah, you’re right. Let’s just bury our heads in the sand, ignore Clarke’s previous form, ignore the fact that he is desperate to **** this club over and is simply using us to get the stadium, and instead just enjoy the football.

Surely we can do both? I’m enjoying the feel good factor surrounding the football side of things right now, and obviously enjoyed last season, but let’s not lose sight of the fact that we are still owned by a guy who gives little shit about us as a football club, is pumping millions into the club and will want it back one day.....when that day comes it will matter not a jot how well we’re playing, because we won’t exist!!

[Jerry]

Other clubs in this Division are making even larger losses. Chesterfield have just had a "loan" of £2 million written off by their owner, but they still owe him nearly £10 million. We have all read about financial problems at Gateshead, Ebbsfleet, Notts County, Yeovil in the past 12 months. Look at the problems in the Fl as well, Bury, Bolton, Macclesfield, etc., Coventry not in Coventry, and it puts things in perspective. If Mr. Osborne did decide enough is enough, and pulled out we may find ourselves in a similar position. Until then, let us enjoy the most exciting football I have seen at Plainmoor in decades.

Not sure I understand your point? Other clubs are racking up huge losses so it's ok? Just a quick look at one of the clubs you've mentioned should surely give you pause for thought - Bury may very well cease to exist in the next couple of weeks. No doubt some of their fans were saying the same thing last season, "we're playing great football so let's forget about the huge debts we are accumulating and enjoy ourselves".

As Scott says, we can enjoy the winning football whilst still being concerned about the off field stuff. It's not an either/or situation.

[westyorkshiregull]

Matt, I'd save your breath if I were you.
SNW & Dave are just biding their time so they can raise their ugly mugs & say I told you so, that day may very well come but ffs let's enjoy the ride on the way to hell, I'd bet my house on the fact that if GJ gets the slightest whiff of it going tits up he'll be off damn quick.

I'm enjoying the bit of the moment being a torquay fan , but it will soon forgotten if it all gos tits up. Southampton gull and our super Nicky wore have really valid and real points of view
Can't substitute current uplifting performances with the future of our club. Imagine years ago being happy to be a conference club , reality check is needed

[culmstockgull]

Could we consider putting this topic on the backburner for the time being until one of our contributors is proved right or wrong and we can all say we told you so, People do gloss over the fact we would probably be playing southern league football as a phoenix club if he had not stepped in, even after three seasons his motives are still unclear but you can bet he is three maybe four steps ahead of our thinking on the subject. I believe nothing is be gained by re hashing old prejudices and half baked truths. For better or worse he is our chairman until the next candidate for the loony bin with a billion pounds in their back pocket pops in.

[Hammdog2601]

My eye sight is bad but was Clarke Osborne at the game today? From popside I thought I seen him in the box.

[nickbrod]

My eye sight is bad but was Clarke Osborne at the game today? From popside I thought I seen him in the box.

No he was not in the Directors' Box.

[wivelgull]

Culmstockgull is right.