Torquay United v Hartlepool United 31/8/19

[MellowYellow]

I think some of are problems stem from trying to shoehorn Hall, Little and CLE into the side - I understand why you would want to but it’s simply not working.

We had a convincing victory against Aldershot when Hall was out, not because there is a problem with Hall, but because we had a proper shape

You raise a valid point Bristol_Gull - one I have been pondering. The balance of the team just does not feel right and I do not like CLE in his current position. GJ is trying to find the right balance and as he says, the difference between teams in this league is a fine margin and games won are down to game methodology. It's a game of two teams and the better team wins - but can we really say that Hartlepool were the better team. Whilst the were good, I thought we played well enough in the second half to have nicked it. GJ will undoubtedly go back to the drawing board after this defeat and we may see some reshaping of the team for the Woking match.

[Arelbee]

I would tend to agree with dawlishmatt.

For a number of our games this season I have been left frustrated (Solihull, Maidenhead, Barnet, Bromley) but today I was angry at the end. If ever a game was there for the taking, it was today - once we equalised we should have found a way, but we did not. And frankly, as has been pointed out, we were lucky to still have that opportunity at half time.

Johnson should not be above criticism - we are the customers and I agree he may have been over optomistic in resigning virtually the entire squad. Perhaps they are not as talented as we had hoped - but won many a game last season due to full time fitness. Now the odds have been evened out, we are being found out.

I think the signings of Little and Covolan are excellent and think they will both have big futures, at and above this level. I think Cameron can get there too but I am not sure any of the others can. CLE has potential but he will not affect the game being played where he is. I would try Keating there as Daku doesn't appear to have the heart for the battle... I would give Kalala the freedom of the park - and perhaps try him from the bench for 30-45 minutes against tiring defences.

Reidy continues to do well and I admire him for that..... I thought his ability was limited but he seems to be finding a way - many of the rest of the team need to do that quick or I can see Johnson mixing things up a bit with a cople of loans in and out.

Bad day at the office - let's see a reaction at Woking. 8 or 10 games to conclde? I think we are there already.....

[dawlishmatt]

Road2 League2, I based my opinion on Jamie Reid based on the number of games he played for us prior to relegation, 77 league games in total and his return of 9 goals in 77 league games in the National league Premier. Gary Johnson I believe is the best man for the job, but he has made mistakes. Even top managers like Jose Morinio make mistakes, that's why Chelsea sacked him twice and Manchester United also gave him the boot. I'm sure most people will agree that despite this, Morinio will go down as one of the best managers in world football over the last 20 years.

[culmstockgull]

For me, the most frustrating game of the six I have seen this season, we got the tactics so wrong first half, If I remember rightly they had seven or eight corners in the first 22 minutes, we were holding on and you would have been forgiven for thinking we were the away side. Their No 4, Raynes had everything we did not, a talking leader, tough to the tackle, cajoling, encouraging, great organiser, and a natural central defender. Kalala looked completely wrecked, seemed to have lost the art of dribbling, as soon as he got the ball he could not wait to get rid of it. Reid ran his socks off but is no match as a lone attacker against giants. If it wasn't for the keeper we could have lost by four. Johnson seemed to indicate in his after match report that this team is still learning the league, rubbish, more than half the team have played in the national or higher. I said after the Barnet capitulation that I didn't won't our season to be defined buy our defensive mistakes, I am now sure it will be. Hartlepool were everything we were not, Professional.

[dawlishmatt]

culmstockgull, I think your post is spot on.

[goody2449]

Frustrating first 8 games really, today was the perfect example, sloppy defending, missing midfield, individual errors, mixed together with 20/30 mins brilliant fluid play.
Hall was useless today, as he usually is, he made 1 decent tackle, couldn’t pass simple balls and didn’t win anything in the air. He is the weak link. Little and CLE hold onto the ball too long because they don’t trust him, which usually results in them losing possession. Reid had a good game, never stopped running and took his goal well, his record over the last 12 months must be good, and will likely have better teams watching him if it continues,whilst TUFC struggle to establish themselves in this league.

[portugull]

Gary Johnson said he would need 10 games to evaluate his team at this level.
After 8 games we are 10th and 5 of the teams we have played are above us and that becomes 6 out of 9 after our visit to Woking on Tuesday. In other words a very tough initiation for our young team.
Of the 24 teams only 7 have won 4 or more games.United are one of 5 teams with 3 wins.
It is a long season and it is early days.We have to be patient.
Gary hinted in his post match interview that a small number of players may not be good enough and he will act.
Remember patience is a virtue sought by many but possessed by few.

[Road2League2]

Question regarding Reidy’s performance this season. Has anyone noticed he’s dropping deep very often instead of up the front waiting for that ball? Would like to see him standing on centre circle for 90 mins ready to poach! Should have scored in front of the family stand today

[SBP]

If you all think back a year ago and remember the football you were watching and where we were. GJ has done a great job. The brand of football he has delivered and another 1,000 fans through the turnstiles.
This season was never going to be easy, we would not be 3 nil up at ht like last season. You have to be patient. You cannot give up on players after 8 games, sure we have issues and GJ will be working on them and if he's not happy then he will make changes. GJ has a great record for developing players. He needs time.

[Uptongull]

Reading between the lines in his post-match video, I think GJ has lost his patience now. Think we will start to see in the next couple of months the ruthless side that has got him so many promotions.

He admitted that he's had to give "this group a chance first" and at the Woking game on Tuesday, the group of Torquay players "wont be the same in 45 games time".

I infer from that that a few are on thin ince. We have to remember that a large proportion of these players were signed when we were at our lowest ebb in summer 2018 with a budget based on 1300 gates. We cant expect miracles from them.

My thoughts are:

Wynter solid, but doesn't give us much going forward. If he had some pace on the overlap it would help give us another outlet going forward.

Cameron good enough to stay.

Love Niate's effort but the stats haven't lied so far. Was probably a reason he was at Guiseley before we got him.

Davis decent. Gives us a threat.

Hall's legs have gone. When he runs back after an attack breaks down he looks like hes got concrete boots on. Experienced yes but cant get around the park to impose himself on the game. Not a creative player either so what does he bring now?

Little easily good enough. Think he is getting frustrated with those around and in front of him not being on his wavelength.

CLE easily good enough. Prefer him in centre mid though. His finishing isn't great either upfront.

Andrews not doing it for me. He wasnt even getting in the side towards the tail end of last season. So I wasnt that enthused when we signed him permanently. Not a physical presence and where has his sweet left foot gone? Still think enough ability to be kept around.

Kalala looking really lightweight at this level. And his confidence looks shot if his body language is anything to go by. Still has the magic to do something every now and then. Just depends if the other 80% of the time makes him good enough to remain in the team.

Keating not good enough if we are brutally honest. Last season he did well. Going from mediocre prior to GJ to slightly better than mediocre. Now not seeming to cut the mustard.

Reid obviously one to stay.

Liked Duku in pre-season. But now seems to just chase lost causes with no real thought process. I still think there is something about him though that could really work.

[MellowYellow]

Gary Johnson said he would need 10 games to evaluate his team at this level.
After 8 games we are 10th and 5 of the teams we have played are above us and that becomes 6 out of 9 after our visit to Woking on Tuesday. In other words a very tough initiation for our young team.
Of the 24 teams only 7 have won 4 or more games.United are one of 5 teams with 3 wins.
It is a long season and it is early days.We have to be patient.
Gary hinted in his post match interview that a small number of players may not be good enough and he will act.
Remember patience is a virtue sought by many but possessed by few.

If you all think back a year ago and remember the football you were watching and where we were. GJ has done a great job. The brand of football he has delivered and another 1,000 fans through the turnstiles.
This season was never going to be easy, we would not be 3 nil up at ht like last season. You have to be patient. You cannot give up on players after 8 games, sure we have issues and GJ will be working on them and if he's not happy then he will make changes. GJ has a great record for developing players. He needs time.

[Bristol_Gull]

Reading between the lines in his post-match video, I think GJ has lost his patience now. Think we will start to see in the next couple of months the ruthless side that has got him so many promotions.

He admitted that he's had to give "this group a chance first" and at the Woking game on Tuesday, the group of Torquay players "wont be the same in 45 games time".

I infer from that that a few are on thin ince. We have to remember that a large proportion of these players were signed when we were at our lowest ebb in summer 2018 with a budget based on 1300 gates. We cant expect miracles from them.

My thoughts are:

Wynter solid, but doesn't give us much going forward. If he had some pace on the overlap it would help give us another outlet going forward.

Cameron good enough to stay.

Love Niate's effort but the stats haven't lied so far. Was probably a reason he was at Guiseley before we got him.

Davis decent. Gives us a threat.

Hall's legs have gone. When he runs back after an attack breaks down he looks like hes got concrete boots on. Experienced yes but cant get around the park to impose himself on the game. Not a creative player either so what does he bring now?

Little easily good enough. Think he is getting frustrated with those around and in front of him not being on his wavelength.

CLE easily good enough. Prefer him in centre mid though. His finishing isn't great either upfront.

Andrews not doing it for me. He wasnt even getting in the side towards the tail end of last season. So I wasnt that enthused when we signed him permanently. Not a physical presence and where has his sweet left foot gone? Still think enough ability to be kept around.

Kalala looking really lightweight at this level. And his confidence looks shot if his body language is anything to go by. Still has the magic to do something every now and then. Just depends if the other 80% of the time makes him good enough to remain in the team.

Keating not good enough if we are brutally honest. Last season he did well. Going from mediocre prior to GJ to slightly better than mediocre. Now not seeming to cut the mustard.

Reid obviously one to stay.

Liked Duku in pre-season. But now seems to just chase lost causes with no real thought process. I still think there is something about him though that could really work.

Based on the performances and stats alone I’d be bold and drop Niate and Hall to the bench for the next game.

Bring Lewis in alongside Cameron at CB

I think both Kalala and Andrews will come good - keep them in the XI with Little and CLE

Rotate with Edwards on the wings as needed -

[Bristol_Gull]

I haven’t seen enough of Duku to make an assessment but given the effectiveness of the Reid / Janneh partnership last season I’d suggest this needs to be replicated - whether Duku is that man, we will only tell if they get proper game time together. If it’s not showing up that way in training then it’s back to the drawing board, but either way I’d rather see CLE in the middle - he influences games from there

[MellowYellow]

[
Based on the performances and stats alone I’d be bold and drop Niate and Hall to the bench for the next game.

After 8 games what stats are we referring too? That Niate has scored one more goal than Cameron and their match errors are on par or that McDonald has asked GJ if he can play centre forward against Working. We all seem to be back to armchair manager mode. Yes, I do think the team structure needs reshaping but lets leave that to Gary, I think he is more aware than anyone of what we are all thinking.

I haven’t seen enough of Duku to make an assessment but given the effectiveness of the Reid / Janneh partnership last season I’d suggest this needs to be replicated - whether Duku is that man, we will only tell if they get proper game time together.

That is more realistic!

[Bristol_Gull]

After 8 games what stats are we referring too? That Niate has scored one more goal than Cameron and their match errors are on par or that McDonald has asked GJ if he can play centre forward against Working. We all seem to be back to armchair manager mode. Yes, I do think the team structure needs reshaping but lets leave that to Gary, I think he is more aware than anyone of what we are all thinking.
That is more realistic!

Fair comment. The balance isn’t quite right yet but I’ve total faith in GJs decision making and believe that the majority of players will come good - most have the ability and none have looked like a consistent weak link, it’s working as a unit that will make the difference.