Maidenhead v Torquay Utd - BH Mon 10th April 3pm

[MellowYellow]

The wonders of hindsight bias which allows us to participate in one of our favourite pastimes — criticising the decisions of club management for their lack of foresight. And the "i told you so" brigade are out in strength when in reality they told us nothing. What is this “I knew it all along phenomenon.”? At the beginning of the season I never heard a pip-squeak about our signings being the worst ever Did anyone really know that Dylan Crowe and Brett McGavin from League One top-flight Ipswich Town would not make the grade in the bloody National League. Although not a major claim to fame Crowe was part of the England u18 squad and had been previously linked with moves to Manchester United, Arsenal, Celtic, RB Leipzig and Benfica. Was Ryan Hanson thought to be a really bad midfield option having had spells with Hull City and Dover Athletic, where he was made captain at 21. With the benefit of historical hindsight we can all see things which we would wish had been done differently or not at all. The past is no more; the future not yet. Nothing exists except the here and now - 4 wins and the 'Great Escape'. If you find this is intolerable and it makes you unhappy, you have two options: remove yourself from the situation, or accept it totally. This season is part of our history but not part of our destiny - that is now in our hands! COYY!

[Cheddargull]

I am referring to when we were top of the NL, points in front, but picked up injuries to crucial players. If he'd have spent some money on players then, then we would have been back in the FL well within his "5 year plan" (of which since we have heard nowt about btw) and who knows what would have happened.

At the time when our main striker, Danny Wright was out injured there were indeed calls to get another striker in but I did wonder if the owner turned round and told Johnson to use what he already had. In that squad were Billy Waters and Josh Umeriah who we all thought were crap, but since leaving the club have achieved success at Halifax in Waters case and at Wealdstone and in League 2 with Hartlepool in Umeriah's case. In other words there were capable players available but Johnson didn't know how to get the best out of them, a failing he has repeated with Corrie Andrews and Klaldi Lolos.
So even if Johnson had got extra funds there was no guarantee Johnson would have been able to use it wisely.

[Southampton Gull]

'Who we all thought were crap' precisely because in a Yellow shirt they mostly were and in Umerahs case he couldn't trap a bag of cement BUT players develop, find their club or find the system that suits them. To blame Johnson for that is nonsense, it's what happens at this level. Look at the flip side to players he now has performing who have hardly had a look in recently. He's an experienced manager and just what's needed to save us from the mess Osborne has allowed to develop.

Some if not most fans blame Gary Johnson, luckily there are some with common sense who see a small squad bloated with loanees which proves the budget isn't great. With his last throw of the dice Johnson has given us a real chance of avoiding the drop. If we fail then will be the time to start laying blame but with Osborne piling up the loan commitments of the club it's just a matter of time before we're in real trouble. To say he's putting his hands in his pockets is pure fantasy, we're a tax write off and ultimately the sacrificial lamb in his business portfolio just as history tells us. Dawlish must be his love child the way he leaps to his defence, he's got previous for doing the exact same thing no matter what Dawlish and his imaginary missus think.

[exilegull]

' To say he's putting his hands in his pockets is pure fantasy, we're a tax write off and ultimately the sacrificial lamb in his business portfolio just as history tells us.

He is injecting around £1million per year and the total loans are now approaching £5million. The maximum benefit this could be as tax write off is a £1million reduction in corporation tax if it was offset against profits but as it is coming through a holding company with no other activity this doesn't appear to be the case - and even if so who would spend £5million to save £1million.

It may well be that he other long term interests through the club ownership, but up until now he has simply sunk a substantial amount into the club and there seems to be very little prospect of recovering that.

I doubt the budget is a top 10 budget, but I'm equally sure its not a bottom 4 budget

[SuperNickyWroe]

He is injecting around £1million per year and the total loans are now approaching £5million. The maximum benefit this could be as tax write off is a £1million reduction in corporation tax if it was offset against profits but as it is coming through a holding company with no other activity this doesn't appear to be the case - and even if so who would spend £5million to save £1million.

It may well be that he other long term interests through the club ownership, but up until now he has simply sunk a substantial amount into the club and there seems to be very little prospect of recovering that.

I doubt the budget is a top 10 budget, but I'm equally sure its not a bottom 4 budget

Well done for the penny finally dropping......

[exilegull]

Well done for the penny finally dropping......

No, thats a cop out, it provides no response to my question around why you were telling people to look at the accounts and the method of financing as if it somehow nefarious compared to some other method.

I have been and remain unconvinced by Osborne's ownership of the club and his long term intentions, but over the past 5 years the club has been bankrolled with now £5million of his cash - its very difficult to see any possible way to get a return on that, especially when the council have thankfully shown an intention to look after the interests of the club and not release land until a new stadium is a reality. Without that injection of cash over the past 5 years, its highly unlikely the club would still be full-time, there have never been a queue of wealthy backers to takeover Torquay United.

So cut the bullshit and the nudge, nudge, wink, wink stuff and tell me exactly why you think Osborne financing via Riviera Limited is somehow not what it seems,

[SuperNickyWroe]

No, thats a cop out, it provides no response to my question around why you were telling people to look at the accounts and the method of financing as if it somehow nefarious compared to some other method.

I have been and remain unconvinced by Osborne's ownership of the club and his long term intentions, but over the past 5 years the club has been bankrolled with now £5million of his cash - its very difficult to see any possible way to get a return on that, especially when the council have thankfully shown an intention to look after the interests of the club and not release land until a new stadium is a reality. Without that injection of cash over the past 5 years, its highly unlikely the club would still be full-time, there have never been a queue of wealthy backers to takeover Torquay United.

So cut the bullshit and the nudge, nudge, wink, wink stuff and tell me exactly why you think Osborne financing via Riviera Limited is somehow not what it seems,

Look, I'm not interested in what you think, but the info is there for all to see.
You come on with your theories and when someone points it out to you you're still not interested and want me to explain how it works with Osborne and Riviera Ltd. If you can't go back in time and remember the reason why he was so interested, then that's your problem.

[exilegull]

Look, I'm not interested in what you think, but the info is there for all to see.
You come on with your theories and when someone points it out to you you're still not interested and want me to explain how it works with Osborne and Riviera Ltd. If you can't go back in time and remember the reason why he was so interested, then that's your problem.

I haven't come on with any theories, I'm simply stating facts. £5million has been injected into the club in the last years to keep it running. You're the one with the theories, I'd appreciate you explain in black and white what you meant by the below

If you care to look at the accounts, its there for one and all to see - If you can be bothered that is.

Or otherwise, just simply acknowledge you don't trust his motives,

[SuperNickyWroe]

I haven't come on with any theories, I'm simply stating facts. £5million has been injected into the club in the last years to keep it running. You're the one with the theories, I'd appreciate you explain in black and white what you meant by the below



Or otherwise, just simply acknowledge you don't trust his motives,

No theories from me either.
Just stating the facts that can be seen in the accounts.
Do you trust him?

[exilegull]

No theories from me either.
Just stating the facts that can be seen in the accounts.
Do you trust him?

I don't trust him, as I still don't understand his motives, but I feel differently now, than on the day he walked through the door, with the reputation and history he had, given he has propped the club up with around £5million without any security and with no real prospect of actually securing the Plainmoor site for his own purposes until the club have a long term home.

Again, you are still hinting at the cloak and dagger stuff. What facts that can be seen in the accounts are you referring to? The fact it comes from Riveria? Again so what, what significance do you think this has?

[culmstockgull]

MellowYellow, to take up your post, How exactly were we to raise any objections on our signings at the start of the season, we had not seen them play, to make a decision at that stage would have been plain stupid, although anyone who witnessed the pre season friendlies must have had concerns, as johnson says judge me after 10 to 12 games, well we reflected and judged the players after that period and found them plainly wanting, were we wrong, in hindsight we were totally corect ,so much so that group of players in the main no longer feature in the squad, not one or two but eight or nine. its not that we had a bad signing but they we did it in such volume,I still believe that Johnson as per his statements went for quantity over quality and that is solely the reason our season is as it is, I agree it does not define us or our future, but it does nothing to help our collective ulcers.

[SuperNickyWroe]

I don't trust him, as I still don't understand his motives, but I feel differently now, than on the day he walked through the door, with the reputation and history he had, given he has propped the club up with around £5million without any security and with no real prospect of actually securing the Plainmoor site for his own purposes until the club have a long term home.

Again, you are still hinting at the cloak and dagger stuff. What facts that can be seen in the accounts are you referring to? The fact it comes from Riveria? Again so what, what significance do you think this has?

OK, the accounts don't tell you everything.........
TUAFC Ltd has £2.2m in assets and £102k in the bank.
Riviera was founded to fund TUAFC and has fixed assets of £1,000 and no actual employees.
Osborne's actual debt is £1.1m and he offsets this to other companies and via taxation.
Shares capital is £994,000 which has been paid out.
He won't give up with the assets of TUAFC, so in an accounting way, he's still in front.
Remember, he has be very careful due to the FA rules on ownership etc.