FA cup vs Wimborne

[Louis]

[happytorq]

Happytorq,

A fair response, thanks.

It may well be the case that Mr Osbourne has ulterior motives but it is an indisputable that, so far, he has pumped in fortunes with no reward. I can't see we would be full time without him, which is a massive advantage in a mainly part time league. I stand corrected if Plainmoor turns into Home Bargains, and we end up ground sharing with Teignmouth Rugby Club. At the moment we don't know long term whether he is good or bad for the club, but there will be many fans across the country praying for someone like Mr Osbourne to arrive. Wealthy owners don't grow on trees.

There are two main reasons for leaving Plainmoor, I understand. The first is to enable the club to become more financially viable, or for Mr Osbourne to build a concrete jungle. As I said previously, I hope we never leave the old ground. For me, a big part of the magic of the club is the ground, and if we left it would never be the same. On a totally different level......Man City left Maine Road and although many supporters like the new set up, many hanker for the old club and the old values. I have no doubt many fans will hope we move to a shiny new ground, I certainly hope not.

A long response, this, so apologies in advance, lol.

It is (grudgingly) to CO's credit that he has kept us full-time, twice, in what is mostly a part-time league. I don't know if I can fully agree with your assertion that you "can't see we would be full time without him" because as I said before, we don't know what other interest there was before he took control of the club. But yes, in the absence of a confirmed alternative, it has been he that has kept us going - I can concede that. His ulterior motives were essentially disclosed when he came in, though - and along with the evidence of his past dealings, it's not a huge leap to say that he's still in it hoping to see an eventual return. It's arguable that that return is not possible while we're outside of the football league, so that's maybe why he's kept his support. I don't know the guy so can't really say with any confidence - but neither can anybody else, because all we've had out of him in about 4 years are 2 press release articles on the website. Nothing more. Not the promised fan forum, not even an on-camera interview with the in-house media team. To me, that's very telling.

As for the prospect of a new ground. I don't think there are a huge number of supporters who genuinely can't see the eventual need for a new place, even if - like yourself - there's trepidation. Plainmoor is in an awkward part of Torquay (ok, so they're all awkward...) with little in the way of parking and no public transport. If the club is to grow and thrive in the future, a move away is (for me, anyway) vital.

But I don't think we're at that point yet. Building a new place is hard, and it's expensive, and it takes a long time.

It's a perfectly functional stadium in the National League, League 2 and maybe even League 1. That isn't the issue, though. Other clubs at our level (and below!) have facilities that can generate non-matchday revenue, and that helps them to build sustainably for their future. We don't have that. We have 23 league matchdays a season plus maybe 3 or 4 other games (depending upon pre-season friendlies and cup games). That means that - conservatively - there are 330 other days of the year where there's no revenue. So in that respect it's totally acceptable for the owner of the club to make statements about a new ground being necessary, and it'd also be acceptable for him to make plans to do that. That's just decent business planning.

What isn't acceptable is to not actually make any real effort towards that goal other than slapping a Torquay United badge on another club's ground rendering. Or to make no plan other than "go on, let me have Plainmoor's freehold, honestly, I won't stiff you like I did all those other places". I'm very much concerned that with the council being in financial strife they'll look to sell off council assets, of which Plainmoor is undoubtedly one, and then we could very much end up homeless. And even if Mr. Osborne does end up building a stadium somewhere, I very much doubt it'll belong to the entity of TUFC - he'll have some other company set up so he can charge the club rent, and continue to do so even if he sells the football club.

I wouldn't even know where to suggest building somewhere new. I do remember Clennon Valley being mentioned years ago (which is Paignton, obviously, rather than Torquay), but that seems unlikely and still not easy to get to. Maybe I'm misremembering but was there some talk about a site in the Willows that had to be forgotten because of the huge cost to clean it up? Seaside towns don't tend to have a lot of land around, which is why you're probably looking at somewhere on the edge of town. Edginswell is probably the site that makes most sense since they do want to put a rail station there, but even that isn't perfect.

Leaving a home of 100+ years is always going to be tough, but there are many clubs who have done so successfully. If done correctly, a new place could be tremendously exciting for the club, but it will require large investment, and an owner (or ownership group) that actively cares about Torbay - so far CO has not convinced me of that.

[culmstockgull]

happytorq, an interesting post. Glad to see there is at least some partial acceptance of our owner as not being the devil incarnate, for me anyone who has kept us in business for the last five years on a vague hope/promise of seeing some freehold land and subsquent profit at the end of it gets my vote, he is not perfect but from the outset he was very clear in his beliefs and attitude, many clubs have owners who are absent or arms length, having little or nothing to do with the day to day running, that is why we have an MD who should but probably not in our case be experienced in football matters.
As for plainmoor, if we ever move it will be a wrench, if it means economical survival then i will vote for it , most of us move throughout our life without it coming to an end.
If, and its a huge if he gains the freehold of plainmoor and assuming he puts houses on the site even if they crammed in rabbit hutches there is still not five million profit.
As for alternative grounds , I still think the the rugby club ground by the railway station is a very good possible, good public transport plenty of parking and its council owned plus the rugby club have a back up pitch off chestnut road they could use, modular stands are not expensive. Not even sure the majority of edginswell is in torbay but there is plenty of space out that way for a ground, however if non match day revenue is the driver for any new ground the rugby ground would be ideal,you must have non match day revenue where the public want it, a small hotel facing the water ,cinema etc etc, I walked round the perimeter of the rugby ground the other day, its at least three times the footprint of plainmoor so there would be no growing pains.
A little academic discussion I know, but our future thoughts for the club must be more strategic and long term than getting back into the national.

[The Eternal Optimist]

Leaving Plainmoor could be disastrous for supporters. It would be very tight at the Recreation ground with zero parking. I can't see the planning department allowing it. Imagine the chaos at the end of a match as people left the stadium onto those main roads. If we got anywhere above League One there would be no room to expand the terraces and the stands that would be required. There is plenty of onroad parking at Plainmoor. If a large enough flat area could be found in the Edginswell area (and I don't think there is any), you would also need to provide a large area for car parking. There's nowhere in the ring road area, and moving out of town to Paignton or Newton Abbot would be fatal for the club. Gates would drop to a low level. Plalnmoor is situated in the midst of a lot of houses where many fans are drawn from, and is easily accessible from most areas of the town. I fully understand the need for the football ground of any club to be available for other functions during the week, but wouldn't that also require an artificial surface? I think the fans who are in favour of moving the ground want to be careful what they wish for.

[happytorq]

As for alternative grounds , I still think the the rugby club ground by the railway station is a very good possible, good public transport plenty of parking and its council owned plus the rugby club have a back up pitch off chestnut road they could use,

I did, a while back, spend an hour or so looking at GIS maps of Torquay and the space down by the rugby would be the dream. A decently-sized ground near the town and seafront would be brilliant, both for the club and the local area. Transport could be tricky if everybody comes by road, but we're probably still not getting more than 5,000 even in league 1 so it wouldn't be that big of a deal - and of course the train station is right there. Don't remember off-hand how much usasble land there actually is, and for there to non-matchday revenuw you're probably looking at an additional pitch, this one 3G/4G. (because of course we don't want the new ground to have an artificial surface).

[Mr Tea808]

I thought Chris Roberts big plan/idea was to locate a new stadium down on the seafront/rugby ground, and that idea, along with the numpty he was last all of 5 minutes...

[torregull]

The "Rec" regularly floods and was under several feet of water on Sunday.

[Brewers boy]

Speaking from experience. ( Before I moved to Brixham I was a regular at Burton Albion). Similar sized club with a similar size fanbase. Some of you may have been to one or the other of their grounds. The ground that I started to watch at, Eton park, was a bit rundown and out of date. During the 2001/02 season it was pretty obvious that promotion to the Nationwide conference (National league) a new ground would be necessary. They were lucky enough for Pirelli to gift them the land for a stadium and carpark. Hence the name Pirelli Stadium. The new stadium is a mixture of 2000 seater stand similar to Bristows and standing on pop side and both ends, approx total capacity of 7000. Each stand has it's own bar underneath and the main stand has a luxury function room and above the stand is a row of hospitality boxes. The function room and hospitality boxes are all regularly used for weddings funerals meetings conferences etc. The car park is rented out on a permanent basis to a driving school which uses it for cbt motorcycle training, caravan towing training etc.
As you can imagine, this off field activity brings in an awful lot of money, along with good on field management has managed to finance the club from a mediocre non league team into the championship.
It's an upward spiral, the more money you have the better players you can get, the better the players the more you win, the more you win the more fans come to watch thus generating more money and repeat.

[Taelee73]

The rumour was always that there is no intention to build houses at Plainmoor, more likely to let Spires have that land and then build on Spires old sports pitches, which I think have sea views etc.

New sites for a ground, Shiphay was once mentioned. There is a decent sized piece of land owned by TBGS with an adjacent artifical floodlit pitch already in place.

The Willows was ruled out, and the Rec must be a no go as well.