Stadium fan ownership

[Admiral]

I see that Scunthorpe fans have bought their own stadium and have full control of it. It’s an interesting idea, could something similar happen with Plainmoor or in a part-fan/part-council ownership?

https://www.grimsbytelegraph.co.uk/spor ... 202284.amp

Torbay council are as of today future-proofing Torquay United or any future phoenix club by owning the stadium, but who’s to say their stance won’t change in years to come?

[culmstockgull]

The Scunthorpe owner is selling 1899 shares at £1899 each to supporters, which could raise 3.5 million, when that has been achieved the supporters will have full ownership of glanford park, but no liability for maintenence of the ground . Additionally they will have no call on the club name, the team, manager or the set up , nor will the money raised be specifically allocated for the benefit of the team, so it all respects it purely a symbolic purchase, it does not prevent the owner moving the club to another ground or closing them down, this is my main arguement concerning any community or trust/tust ownership, can you imagine a situation in torquay of 1899 supporters making a single unified decision on anything let alone on doing away with the manager, transferring or getting in a player.

[TUST_Official]

Culmstock - look to see how Exeter make their decisions.

[bringbackthecowshed]

I wouldn't have anything to do with the TUST even if was the last man standing. been a supporter since 1959 and TUST are a bunch of dreamers.

[Village Lad]

I wouldn't have anything to do with the TUST even if was the last man standing. been a supporter since 1959 and TUST are a bunch of dreamers.

Any chance of a bit of an explanation?

[Admiral]

I wouldn't have anything to do with the TUST even if was the last man standing. been a supporter since 1959 and TUST are a bunch of dreamers.

Strange statement

[culmstockgull]

TUST member, as suggested had a good look on the various exeter sites as to their organisation, structure and ethos, it is exceptionally grey in places as to who receives what in renumeration, how many of the Exeter FC board members from the chairman and president downwards receive salaries. why they made 2.5 million profit last financial year after all costs, not including the additional 2 million they have received from transfers and add ons from previous player sales in recent months and yet still cannot bring themselves to buy one decent player, relying totally on in the main sub standard loans( where have I seen that before).As a result they are falling quicker in the league than we are.
I supported the TUST in its early days to the tune of several hundred pounds, got regular newsletters and very little else, no nucleus of a plan, no blue print for what happens when the wheels falls off which as I understand was the reason the TUST was conceived.
Survival of a club by community ownership may be the last throw of the dice for many but I stlll stand by my original thought that I have yet to see in the UK a successful in purely footballing terms community owner venture.

[culmstockgull]

TUST member, as suggested had a good look on the various exeter sites as to their organisation, structure and ethos, it is exceptionally grey in places as to who receives what in renumeration, how many of the Exeter FC board members from the chairman and president downwards receive salaries. why they made 2.5 million profit last financial year after all costs, not including the additional 2 million they have received in recent months from transfers and add ons, and still cannot bring themselves to buy one decent player, in fact buy any players at all, instead being dependent in the main on sub standard loans( where have I seen that before). As a result they are falling quicker in the league than we are. One of their loans, Muskwe from luton is being paid 16K a week by exeter and has only made a couple of appearances,even Mcdaonald is being paid 900 a week to warm the bench.
I supported the TUST in its early days to the tune of several hundred pounds, got regular newsletters and very little else, no nucleus of a plan, no blue print for what happens when the wheels falls off which as I understand is the sole reason the TUST was conceived.
Survival of a club by community ownership may be the last throw of the dice for many but I stlll stand by my original thought that I have yet to see in the UK a successful in purely footballing terms community owner venture.

[knightmaregull]

Seems odd to me that anyone would be so stringly anti TUST. By all means don't join but surely a unified body on standby to potentially do something should as yet unknown owner plans materialise is better than none, even if chances of succeeding are a 'dream'?

Not sure what you'd expect by way of benefits given the nominal cost and underlying nature of the voluntary group.

Personally I'm thankful to those giving up their time to run it and have no concerns about their motives and intentions at all.

[Taelee73]

Would be happy to swap places with Exeter, with what looks like a 4 million profit. Looked like the place was packed out the other night against Middlesbrough.

Do we have enough of the caliber of person required to start and sustain it though.

As a side note, where is the information about players on £16k a week?

[culmstockgull]

If you go onto the salary sport web site and type in exeter city it gives the salaries of the whole squad.

[happytorq]

As a result they are falling quicker in the league than we are. One of their loans, Muskwe from luton is being paid 16K a week by exeter and has only made a couple of appearances,even Mcdaonald is being paid 900 a week to warm the bench.
I supported the TUST in its early days to the tune of several hundred pounds, got regular newsletters and very little else, no nucleus of a plan, no blue print for what happens when the wheels falls off which as I understand is the sole reason the TUST was conceived.
Survival of a club by community ownership may be the last throw of the dice for many but I stlll stand by my original thought that I have yet to see in the UK a successful in purely footballing terms community owner venture.

"falling quicker in the league than we are"?? They're 3 divisions above us, having survived in the divsion last season, pretty comfortably. Yes, they're on a poor run right now, but I still expect them to stay in League 1 - which is, let's not forget, populated by sides with far bigger budgets. As for saying "yet to see in the UK a successful in purely footballing terms community owner[sic] venture.", then what are Exeter? They were in the Conference when the Trust took over. Yes, they got pretty fortunate with the Man Utd cup draw, but still - since the trust took over they've been promoted twice and have turned their academy into the engine for the club. That seems incredibly successful to me.

Long-term I think you'll see a few more clubs going down the fan-owned route like Exeter. It's never likely to have them spending big but if you can run the club well it's a very decent blueprint, and of course you're not then reliant on some munificent chairman who's prepared to spunk a million quid a year. As for TUST - I'm a member, although I'm not involved day-to-day; but I think they are the best hope we have in the event that the current owner decides to call it a day. I would also like to see more of an plan from them to actually take over, rather than hold the fort while a new owner is found; I have wonder for some time how feasible it would be to find a thousand fans to support the trust with an average of £20 a month; that would then give the trust close to a quarter mill a year to 'run' the club, which would be a thoroughly decent start.

[Admiral]

Fully fan owned clubs generally reach the NLN/NLS and then struggle to go beyond that. Look at Chester/Hereford. However that is the level we’re currently playing at! A fan-owned stadium wouldn’t have to mean a fan-owned club…

[TUFCfan]

If you go onto the salary sport web site and type in exeter city it gives the salaries of the whole squad.

You can take the figures on those kind of sites with a pinch of salt. At best they're normally educated guesses. Exeter would also likely be paying of percentage of Muskwe's wages as well, not the full amount.

[Rio Doherty]

Good evening all,
Chester FC supporter here in peace! I saw my club’s name pop up in a previous post, so just thought I’d re-introduce myself on here having posted a few times in the past. I’m Rio, a 21-year-old (it was my birthday on Halloween, actually ) third-year Sports Journalism student at the University of Chester, and I’m a co-owner, supporter, and volunteer at Chester FC. I’ve been supporting The Seals since I was seven, and I go to every match home and away - from Blyth to Newquay/Torquay and everywhere in between. I’ve done many roles as a volunteer, such as helping out in the club shop on matchdays, dressing up as the club mascot Lupus, selling 50/50 tickets, helping out our Club Historian when he does the stadium tour on a match day, and I’ve been a ball boy (my first match was actually when we beat you 4-1 in December 2015). I’m also a Media Assistant for Chester FC Women on a matchday, and am part of our ‘Deva Stadium Maintenance Working Group’.

I’ve always had a soft spot for Torquay United, so I often browse this forum and social media to see how you are faring, as I feel that we are both very similar clubs. Our stadiums are rather similar (they both actually hold 6,500), we have similar history having spent 80+ years in the Football League, while we both have similar fanbases too - averaging around 2,500. Chester and Torquay are popular tourist attractions as well!! I’m very sorry to hear about your troubles both off (and arguably on) the pitch, so I just thought I’d do this post, because as a Chester supporter, myself and thousands of others have seen it all over the years. While talk of you setting up a Phoenix club may be a pipe dream, it shouldn’t be ruled out if things were to go really bad for you in the future, so I thought I’d offer a bit of an insight into my club’s story, because as Admiral pointed out, we are a fan-owned club.

The old Chester FC (we only became ‘City’ in 1983) have a very historic past. They were formed in 1885 and went on to spend over 80 years in the Football League, as we often hovered between the old Division Three and Four. I’m sure many of you will recall trips to our old Sealand Road home, which hosted over 20,000 supporters when we played against Chelsea in the FA Cup in 1952. We reached the League Cup semi-final in 1975 - beating the likes of Walsall, Blackpool, Newcastle United, and the then-1st Division champions Leeds United along the way, before narrowly losing against Aston Villa over two legs. In the 1964-65 season we had FIVE strikers who all scored 20+ goals each (who are dubbed the ‘Famous Five’), and in the mid-seventies we reached the Division Three play-offs. We also played the likes of Birmingham City, Stoke City, Wolverhampton Wanderers, and West Bromwich Albion regularly in league fixtures. As recently as 2009, we were in the same division as Brentford, AFC Bournemouth, Swansea City, and Brighton & Hove Albion - look where they are now!! I can go on all day about memories of yesterday, and I’m sure you had your glory years as well.

In the 1990s, however, things really started to go badly for us. In 1989 we left our Sealand Road home and had to groundshare with Macclesfield FC for two seasons. During that time we played against Tottenham Hotspur and Arsenal in the League Cup!! We then moved to our current Deva Stadium home in 1992, which costed just £2.5 million and was built in just half a year. It was meant to mirror St Johnstone’s McDiarmid Park ground, but Morrison Shand, the company that built the Deva, screwed us over. The Deva is a nice, tidy ground that has hosted League One football, but it’s on the arse end of an industrial estate so access to it is quite poor. We had a series of rogue owners between 1990 and 2010, which gradually killed our club. Terry Smith (we call him the mad Yank) was an utter loony, who even appointed himself as Manager for a bit. We played Manchester City in the FA Cup in 1999, and he infamously sacked himself half an hour after full-time. There’s a documentary on YouTube based on him, so if you have any spare time then feel free to give it a watch :


We got relegated out of the Football League for the first time in that 1999-00 season, before winning the Conference in 2003-04. We beat the old Scarborough FC at home to win it in front of over 6,000, and there were hundreds of Chester fans locked out of the ground as it was a full house . That was during the Stephen Vaughan era, who was the crook who went on to kill City. He has history of destroying Barrow, Bangor City, and Widnes Vikings along with us. He was that much of a buffoon, he had plans of building a Subway inside the Deva, as well as replacing the terrace in our Hipkiss Stand with seats, because he wanted to host boxing events at the ground. In 2009 a group of our supporters set up an ISA (Independent Supporters’ Association) in the event that we were to create a Phoenix club, which eventually happened. There were regular protests against Vaughan at Chester Town Hall, while there was a boycott for our final ever game against Eastbourne Borough. Just 869 supporters attended, which is an unheard attendance for us. The week before that, our match away to Forest Green Rovers was almost postponed, as some supporters blocked our team coach from leaving the stadium (think of Just Stop Oil, but in blue not orange ). In March 2010 we were liquidated, but thanks to the ISA a fan-owned Phoenix club was created, in front of a packed out Guild Hall.

We won three promotions in a row - averaging 3,000+, which saw us soar up to the National League. We consolidated in that league for five seasons, and in 2014-15 we reached the FA Cup 2nd Round - taking Barnsley to a replay. However, we almost went out of business again in January 2018, but our fans rallied around to raise £150,000, which saved our club. I remember us getting relegated with yourselves that year, and my god it’s so depressing watching us in a regional league for the fifth consecutive campaign. From playing the likes of Chelsea, Arsenal, and Man United to travelling to dives such as Farsley Celtic, Peterborough Sports, and Rushall Olympic is a hard one to swallow. Our club is on the up though, because we have over 1,800 season ticket holders, over 1,600 ‘’owners’’ of our club, and we’ve had 25 consecutive 2,000+ attendances. We have a thriving young Manager called Calum McIntyre, who’s gone from supporting us on the terraces, to coaching our youth team, to managing his boyhood club. Last season we lost just one away league game, and we’ve won six on the spin at this moment in time, so hopefully we’ll finally get out of this awful league. We also have a successful academy, as we’ve produced six players who’ve gone on to have a career in the EFL (a certain Will Goodwin is one of them)!!

Fan-ownership has its benefits, because not many people can say that they ‘’own’’ their beloved club, while the connection between players, staff, and supporters is unshakeable. We’re also a debt free club, however as we’ve found out in regional football, and with what’s going on globally, you need money to get promotion, which is what we’ve struggled with since 2018. Our club often rely on generous donations from supporters, so you’ve got to be really committed, etc.

Having read this forum, from what I can gather is that Clarke Osborne is a shady character who doesn’t communicate at all - just one statement since your play-off final defeat is alarming. With what went on with Swindon Speedway, and the ongoing saga regarding a new stadium, would leave me very concerned if I supported you. I’ve always liked Gary Johnson as a Manager (I even wanted him at Chester at one point ), but he’s definitely past his sell-by date now. He did terrifically well to begin with, by sorting out a mid-table team into champions, consolidating in the National League, before going a penalty shootout away from an EFL return. Since then, though, he’s gradually declined. He should’ve been sacked last October (if not before), so how he’s still managing you is staggering, plus his occasional dig at supporters isn’t a good look at all. From what I can see on Twitter, your feed is rather robotic (with all due respect), with little communication between club and fans. I do feel for you, because like ourselves you’ve had your glory years, but are now on a list of clubs who are sadly languishing in non-league, due to poor ownership. I really do hope things pick up for you, because Chester and Torquay should be an EFL fixture again, and it’s sad that we’re both playing the likes of Peterborough Sports and Aveley. Apologies if this post is a bit long-winded, but just thought I’d offer an alternative perspective as a supporter of a fan-owned club who has a lot of time for Torquay. I’ve always enjoyed my trips to Plainmoor (I went to that drab 1-1 draw in 2017, plus when I was on holiday in Torquay in 2021, I saw your friendlies against Chippenham Town and AFC Bournemouth Under-23’s). So I look forward to going there in the future and that we will have regular fixtures again. I wish you all the very best for the season and future ahead, and hope that things pick up for both of us. Let’s hope that we’ll both go up this season and reunite. I’ll link in our fans’ forum, Devachat, if anybody would like to see our fans’ views on stuff. I’m sure there are plenty of posts about ownership in football, etc. Also, if you would like me to give further insight into how we operate as a supporter-owned club, then please let me know. I’ll be meeting the co-creator of the ‘Off The Line Blog’ (Joe) in January, who’s a Gulls supporter who’ll be coming up to watch our home game against Bishop’s Stortford, so I can’t wait to have a natter with him. All the best chaps!


Devachat - https://deva-chat.com/