culmstockgull wrote: ↑13 Feb 2024, 18:18
Westlondon gull, carry on the petty comments and mind games, it just proves your arguement is weak, I have said all a long when complaining about the club,be careful what you wish for, you as you have taken on the mantle as agitator in chief you could be the one we talk about when the club is no more, that should make you popular
I can only speak for myself, but i can say hand on heart that there has been a question mark over what action, or perhaps non action to go with in order to at least attempt to secure the best outcome for TUFC.
The balance has been shifting towards action being required for some time now, in my mind, but I can only speak for myself, though i am sure there are many others who think along the same lines and perhaps reached those conclusions before I did.
I haven't as far as I can see, made any petty comments, or played any mind games but if you feel that is the case and have interpreted me that way, it wasn't my intention. We as a fanbase are going to all need to pull together and get on the same page if we are to have a chance of securing a future for the club.
Is there a risk of losing the club completely, yes I think so. I believe there is a risk of that from both sitting still and accepting the current situation and the steady downward slope it's being pushed down, and I also believe there is a risk of "no club" through taking action, though on the strength of what we are seeing play out, I believe the former is the greater risk.
You have to go with your own instinct and I and no one else should judge you for that. Perhaps as the weeks go by you might come around to see it the way I do.
WestLondon Yellow, we totally agree "to obtain the best outcome for torquay united " is the only thing we should be discussing, I have never been convinced that direct action is ever a successful tactic and I walked on the aldermaston marches. I still cautiion restraint and further alienation of the owner. There are many that steadfastly hold the view that based on his previous dealings he had only one plan and that was to obtain the freehold of plainmoor, as each year passes and more obstacles appear to thwart that supposed plan that belief loses traction as he continues to bank roll the club way past the point of any profit margins he could expect from developing the ground or even the supposed alternaive site at Quinta.
I appreciate that the TUST are doing their best and may have the outline plan for a doomsday scenario if the worst comes to pass, but things are never as simple as we think they going to be, come May or sooner and Osborne comes to the conclusion, what the hell, I have not achieved my plan whatever that was and the aggravation and abuse are not worth the effort. I am pulling the plug. I will cut my losses and move on like most successful business people do. Or he could say the first person to come up with 5 million can have the club .if you dont I have the name , the lease , the players contracts etc and you can start from scratch.
It then remains that our sole hope is a late application to the western league, sensible questions from the league such as,have you got an approved ground, have you got a team, have you even got a manager, have you even got a strip or a name, do you have a budget, these are things that cannot be sorted out overnight, with say 500 TUST members who all have their own differing opinion and a say on our new name/manager do we have to go through time consuming ballots
I know the western league management committee are volunteers who meet once a month and less if at all during the summer as all their business is usually ratified as the season ends, they cannot hold a place on a maybe or possibly or pretty please, who will make way for our new phoenix team, will that team appeal against being bounced down a league.
I appreciate these are all negative comments but realism is never easy.
WestLondon Yellow, we totally agree "to obtain the best outcome for torquay united " is the only thing we should be discussing, I have never been convinced that direct action is ever a successful tactic and I walked on the aldermaston marches. I still cautiion restraint and further alienation of the owner. There are many that steadfastly hold the view that based on his previous dealings he had only one plan and that was to obtain the freehold of plainmoor, as each year passes and more obstacles appear to thwart that supposed plan that belief loses traction as he continues to bank roll the club way past the point of any profit margins he could expect from developing the ground or even the supposed alternaive site at Quinta.
You raise a key question mark here. Seemingly, according to what we are being led to believe he is just a generous guy and doing us a favour, yet he says himself he has no interest in football and is first and foremost a businessman, so right there something isn't adding up. The lack of transparency on that sum points to, for good reason, a hidden agenda
"I appreciate that the TUST are doing their best and may have the outline plan for a doomsday scenario if the worst comes to pass, but things are never as simple as we think they going to be, come May or sooner and Osborne comes to the conclusion, what the hell, I have not achieved my plan whatever that was and the aggravation and abuse are not worth the effort. I am pulling the plug. I will cut my losses and move on like most successful business people do. Or he could say the first person to come up with 5 million can have the club .if you dont I have the name , the lease , the players contracts etc and you can start from scratch."
This relates back to my previous paragraph. He hasn't concluded "what the hell" because none of this adds up. The annual losses, the lack of any meaninful planning for a new stadium, the decline over the last 2 years, the early success, the solid position of the manager despite results, the constant injuries etc.
"It then remains that our sole hope is a late application to the western league, sensible questions from the league such as,have you got an approved ground, have you got a team, have you even got a manager, have you even got a strip or a name, do you have a budget, these are things that cannot be sorted out overnight, with say 500 TUST members who all have their own differing opinion and a say on our new name/manager do we have to go through time consuming ballots
I know the western league management committee are volunteers who meet once a month and less if at all during the summer as all their business is usually ratified as the season ends, they cannot hold a place on a maybe or possibly or pretty please, who will make way for our new phoenix team, will that team appeal against being bounced down a league.
I appreciate these are all negative comments but realism is never easy."[/b]
This assumes Osborne didn't foresee all this years in advance and that things are nor going exactly to plan for him. I don't believe he is going to be walking away anytime soon, he has a debt grip on us. He is a very cunning, cold and astute operator, and this is like a game of chess, we are trying to catch up and cannot see the whole board, while he is 20 moves ahead of us.
Regarding a Phoenix club and Western league, i would see this as worst case scenario and i believe there are many opportunities to reach for prior to that scenario, first and foremost would be to save the club as is and retain TUFC.
The hurdles you have listed regarding Western League set up, should be able to be overcome with the right planning, energy and effort. But as said above, i would envisage an all out effort to ensure against that scenario and see it as a last resort and a contingency plan.
WestLondonYellow wrote: ↑14 Feb 2024, 17:22
He is a very cunning, cold and astute operator, and this is like a game of chess, we are trying to catch up and cannot see the whole board, while he is 20 moves ahead of us.
Characteristics that are typical of most successful entrepreneurs who have navigated their way to the top.
I get the drift that our owner acquired the club for reasons that may not be appropriate but the root cause of our demise started with a consortium of 10 business men who were not prepared to put their own money into the money drain and put their shares in the club up as collateral to borrow £150,000 from Uncle Clarke, then relinquished control to avoid going into administration. So in effect Uncle Clarke rescued the club from the brink of extinction albeit for financial reasons. At least Uncle Clarke has given a ‘cast iron guarantee’ that the club won’t leave Plainmoor unless there is a ready-to-go new stadium to move into. It will be for the Council to hold him to that guarantee should events move forward namely, build it first and leave the freehold under the protection of the council.
Aside from the usual retort 'he has not built one yet' one can also ask the question where were all the Phoenix club advocates 7 years ago when they could have taken over the club for less than the price of a starter home.
The challenges of maintaining our club ought to be looked at from all angles. While many may see a situation from one angle, others will see it from another. Somewhere in there will be a middle ground where everyone's opinions are respected. On that note, I will concede that Uncle Clarke has achieved the impossible feat of uniting an entire fanbase behind one opinion: hating him.
Edit: It appears to meet spiralling costs of the new stadium additional loans were taken out and total cost of completion was £6.3 million nearly double what was envisaged.
“A previous takeover deal fell through in July after Gaming International failed to agree a deal with Torquay to buy the freehold of their ground Plainmoor”.
“A previous takeover deal fell through in July after Gaming International failed to agree a deal with Torquay to buy the freehold of their ground Plainmoor”.
Says all you need to know…
And for good reason. The basic rule of law is that you cannot sell what you do not own.
MellowYellow wrote: ↑14 Feb 2024, 19:48
Characteristics that are typical of most successful entrepreneurs who have navigated their way to the top.
I would say they are characteristics of a Sociopath and not the characteristics at all of most entrepreneurs. I know many people who have set up businesses and they are far from, cold and calculating.
I get the drift that our owner acquired the club for reasons that may not be appropriate but the root cause of our demise started with a consortium of 10 business men who were not prepared to put their own money into the money drain and put their shares in the club up as collateral to borrow £150,000 from Uncle Clarke, then relinquished control to avoid going into administration. So in effect Uncle Clarke rescued the club from the brink of extinction albeit for financial reasons. At least Uncle Clarke has given a ‘cast iron guarantee’ that the club won’t leave Plainmoor unless there is a ready-to-go new stadium to move into. It will be for the Council to hold him to that guarantee should events move forward namely, build it first and leave the freehold under the protection of the council.
How many times does it need to be stated, we are in his debt grip because he has an agenda, and that agenda does not involve building anything real, and in the incredibly unlikely event that he did build something do you honestly think it would be better than Plainmoor, in design, size and feel? And do you honestly believe there wouldn't be a rent to pay on it to him?
Look at the state of things right now for the evidence playing out in front of your eyes.
Cast Iron, are you sure? Do you mean he said it in an interview? and you believe this? Ask Bristol Rovers and Swindon Speedway fans if Osborne is to be believed.
Aside from the usual retort 'he has not built one yet' one can also ask the question where were all the Phoenix club advocates 7 years ago when they could have taken over the club for less than the price of a starter home.
The common retort is common because it is valid, yet you seem to be attempting to reduce that fact to unimportant and dismissal then swiftly move to ask an unrelated question, why?
Nevermind 7 years ago, the last two years have provided all the clarity necessary to see what is happening and that action needs to be taken. 7 years ago, no one really knew what was in store and the Supporters Trust was in it's infancy. The success of a few years ago also did a job to lull all into a false sense of security. Wonder why that ref. disallowed those to goals ever? I bet you don't.
"The challenges of maintaining our club ought to be looked at from all angles. While many may see a situation from one angle, others will see it from another. Somewhere in there will be a middle ground where everyone's opinions are respected."
Lot's of words, not much meaning here, not falling for it.
On that note, I will concede that Uncle Clarke has achieved the impossible feat of uniting an entire fanbase behind one opinion: hating him.
Not you it seems, your beloved "Uncle Clark" is a hero in your eyes.
He is simply Osborne....Uncle bloody clarke FFS
Last edited by WestLondonYellow on 14 Feb 2024, 21:38, edited 9 times in total.
Edit: It appears to meet spiralling costs of the new stadium additional loans were taken out and total cost of completion was £6.3 million nearly double what was envisaged.
Yeofan wrote: ↑14 Feb 2024, 21:25
I'm interested to know what the Torquay fans think would have happened without Clarke Osborne.
We’d have likely gone bust, reformed and would probably be back in the NLS or thereabouts, but who knows. we’ve had some good times and near misses, but the owner’s overriding goal has always been there.
If nobody can afford to take over the club what difference will a protest make except create a toxic atmosphere?
If 30 fans remortgage their homes that would be a start but as we we all moan about a few pence added to the beer prices, nobody is going to raise any money.
“We are talking about a small group but I think they should stay at home if they are going to be like that, because it clearly affected the players on the pitch. It was just unacceptable in my view … I think I deserve more respect too”
Not Gary as some would like to think but Norwich boss David Wagner gets the funk on with some Canaries fans who were less than supportive towards his substitutions during the 4-2 win over Watford which has lifted them into the Championship playoff places.
Not you it seems, your beloved "Uncle Clark" is a hero in your eyes.
He is simply Osborne....Uncle bloody clarke FFS
I do recall Mike Ashley the previous owner of Newcastle for 15 years and much disliked regularly being named that he was illegitimate ,not sure if the fans had any proof.However whatever the situation regarding bloodline with Clark Osborne he certainly is the black sheep of the family as very rarely wishes to speak or meet up with his "family".
