Points deduction

[Chelston TUFC]

I am struggling to understand those who continue to defend the Osborne/Johnson regime. Ultimately the FACTS speak for themselves- under the period of ownership/management we have ended up in the worst position the club has been in for close on 100 years. Seriously, how can anyone defend that ???? It has been a complete and utter disaster FULL STOP.

Spot on.

[Southampton Gull]

I have no doubt whatsoever, that the sole reason CO announced intention of going into administration rather than putting the club up for sale, was simply SPITE. Once he knew there was no chance of the council giving him the land he wanted, he no longer needed to pretend that our club mattered in any way. It was his chance to hit back at everyone within the club who had criticised him. What a low life.

Couldn't agree more and this is why i kept trying to divert the hatred for Gary Johnson onto Osborne and his motley crew of directors.

Some took it as blind support for the Manager when it was nothing of the sort. How anyone can sympathise with Osborne with his history I find bewildering.

[Colorado]

I have tried to take a rational and dispassionate view of the circumstances and please be aware I am not an advocate for Osborne or his track record.

Osborne was "gifted" the club by the financial ineptitude of the previous directors who failed/did not have the requisite skills to keep the finances in sufficient shape resulting in a possible Administration being perilously close with no other viable option.

Osborne, absolutely rightly, was called out on his sporting club history by many of the posters on this and other sites and almost immediately his ownership was met, understandably correctly, with significant suspicion and was believed to be a path to problems. These views were made quite vociferously at times.

The underlying burning desire to see him relinquish his ownership has continued throughout his tenure.

Osborne was clear from the get go that he had no interest in football and his desire to do to TUFC what he had done to numerous other sporting clubs regarding the premises they operate from was evident at an early stage. i.e. take control of Plainmoor. He has attempted to bring that to a conclusion that met with his plans on a number of occasions and has been thwarted by the council (thankfully).

BUT despite all the vitriol sent his way over that last few years he was still prepared to "gamble" monies, which may or may not be recovered, on achieving that goal. The offshoot of that action was to sustain TUFC as an operating club during those years - remember the impending Administration at the start.

He has now taken the business decision to cut his losses and step away from a potentially (in his strategy) profitable venture and supporters who did not want him to be the owner anyway, and in recent months have made that view heard louder and louder. The subject of whether he is able to recover any of the loan monies is unclear at this stage, but if Administration is the outcome, it is highly unlikely any repayment of those loans will be made.

Whilst I am devastated that the club I have supported for 60 years is now in a perilous position because of Osborne's actions I do, as someone who has been in the business environment for 40 years, understand why he has chosen to leave.

Perhaps, if he had not been vilified so hard for so long, he may have been more inclined to try to find a buyer rather than walk away from somewhere it was very clear didn't want him. Now we are wringing our hands at the outcome of the "campaign" to oust Osborne. The old adage of "be careful what you wish for" springs to mind here.

Even now he is being pilloried for doing exactly what has been called for by many for the last 5 years! I do not recall Thea receiving such responses when she too decided that she had put enough of her money into the club and walked away - and she loved the club - leaving us back at my opening point, impending Administration.

I do have faith that something recoverable will rise like a phoenix from the ashes and hope to God that the next incumbent to take on the club has only good intentions and believe that we, the supporters, should be focusing on a future rather than continuing to moan about what has happened

“Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.” George Santayana



Thank you for posting a reasoned response and reminding of us the reality that in January 2017. Had there been a better owner out there at the time, wouldn't Mr Phillips have sold the club to them?

Quoting Mr Phillips, there wasn't. I believe he said to the local press at some point the club was running him dry and was taking a toll on his health.


And why might that have been?

-an intransigence to the thought of ever leaving Plainmoor among the fanbase despite it being a money pit

-Torbay Council intransigence to any thought of working with new ownership

-competition for players from Exeter and Taunton

-the majority of better players residing far away from Torquay and they and there families not wanting to move here.

-the local talented players not wanting to go full time as they would end up probably bringing home a smaller pay check than they would working part-time

-a fanbase that expects more than can be reasonably delivered given the aforementioned constraints



These are but a few of the reasons (not mine, rather culled from the comments of others on this forum) we are in the position

Quite frankly, I don't see that anything has changed from January 2017. . Torquay United as a currently stands is a money losing proposition and without a seismic change in the culture and mindset of the community I doubt there will be many intelligent businessmen/businesswoman out there who would see it as a viable option.

It's time to change the community mindset.

[knightmaregull]

It's fine to justify CO's actions on business grounds but this conversation is founded on the fact that all.of this has unfolded precisely because his tenure has been a business venture. Not a venture to make money from a football club but instead to make money from land owned (or, thankfully in fact, not owned) by a football club. Some people seem to be losing sight of that.

The footballing side of things that we all care about was always going to be collateral damage ultimately and personally I remain delighted that's finally happened so we can move on to the next chapter. The fact CO seems to have also 'lost' is even better.

Given this inevitable outcome I'd argue on the point above that it would have been better for Philips to have folded the club rather than pass it to CO as all it's done is lost us 6 years.

I can't see any logic in seeking to justify or excuse CO and his cohort for what they sought to do to TUFC and it's community. They should certainly not now be seen as saviours for stepping in at the outset!

[Stoneybroke]

As it stands now . If Taunton beat WSM tonight ,which as their recent form suggests, they will go 2 points clear of Torquay and still have 3 Games in hand !!!

Truro also have games in hand .....and The Gulls have to play both of them before the end of the season.

Not looking good....

[desperado]

With 4/5 games in hand not likely to finish above Truro or Taunton especially after Tuesday ! Dartford who play the top three (and Maidstone) are more likely to stay below us or Welling , we must avoid defeat there, but we have to start grinding out results and somehow shore up our joke of a defence.

[desperado]

Just looked at goals conceded - only the bottom 3 and Welling have conceded more than our 62 in 37 games ! A shocking statistic.
Absolutely pathetic management that Johnson and Downes couldn't assemble and coach a better defence than that this season !

[exilegull]

Couldn't agree more and this is why i kept trying to divert the hatred for Gary Johnson onto Osborne and his motley crew of directors.

Some took it as blind support for the Manager when it was nothing of the sort. How anyone can sympathise with Osborne with his history I find bewildering.

This is where I fundamentally disagree with you Dave. Regardless of Clarke Osborne’s motives, he provided additional cash than Torquay United itself generated, or can likely hope to generate in the near term, for the playing side. The playing budget was better off due to Clarke Osborne’s actions regardless of motive. Without those injections Torquay United would have much more likely have tumbled down the pyramid and probably into administration/insolvency some time ago. As it was there was promotion back to the National League and a whisker away from a return to the league -had the club returned to the league it is possible it could stand on its own two feet, given the additional money from the EFL.

I have sympathy for those who say maybe it would be better for this to happen pre-Osborne took over, but personally I wouldn’t have wanted to miss out on that epic season and play off final even if it ultimately wasn’t successful.

I’m not suggesting any gratitude, or sympathy for Osborne by the above - it was a business gamble that didn’t pay off. But I don’t see how that relates to onfield performance.

It’s not Clarke Osborne’s fault the club is now languishing in mid table (pre points deduction) in National League South - that is Gary Johnson’s fault, both for relegation last year and worse the performance this year when he was given a full time playing budget - sure I could accept being behind Yeovil and having a tough competition with top part time sides, but the reality is the season has been utter dross. Regardless of what you think about Clarke Osborne, I don’t possibly see how Gary Johnson can be absolved in any way whatsoever and the fact that club languishes in national league south makes it an even harder proposition to sell and it’s even more of a money pit.

Absolutely blame Clarke Osborne for not sacking Johnson in Jan-23, that I can fully get behind.

[desperado]

Agree with all of that post

[Southampton Gull]

You assume there was a budget fit for a full time professional team, this season there simply wasn't as can be clearly seen by the lack of reinforcements and then a few below bargain basement additions recently.

You also wrongly assume there was no alternative to Osborne taking over when he did. One of those interested parties is again circling the club. Since the very first day Osborne was connected to our club I warned people of his history and what was likely to happen. If you're happy with the ride along with Osborne then that's OK but I can tell you I am totally the opposite.

I could never see any positives to Osborne owning our club and here we are, a whisker away from Southern League football having our hopes pinned on not going the way of other sporting institutions left in his wake. I'm not absolving Johnson of anything but for fans to show him the kind of vitriol he suffered while the skullduggery of Osborne is excused for a few quid, well that just isn't in me to do it.

Weren't you the one who offered the reasoning behind Osborne having a business running at a loss? From memory I think it was, I was never happy with that and if we escape his clutches then I'll be breathing a huge sigh of relief. I've had information passed to me along the way that gave me a good insight into what was going on behind the scenes and none of it ties in with the wonderful history of our club. That just isn't for me which is why I made the decision to stay away. I've just been sat waiting for the final sting and it looks like Osborne has delivered it. Nothing else about his tenure is satisfying to me. You and others can focus on Gary Johnson if you like, I never took my eyes off Osborne.

[wbw]

This is where I fundamentally disagree with you Dave. Regardless of Clarke Osborne’s motives, he provided additional cash than Torquay United itself generated, or can likely hope to generate in the near term, for the playing side. The playing budget was better off due to Clarke Osborne’s actions regardless of motive. Without those injections Torquay United would have much more likely have tumbled down the pyramid and probably into administration/insolvency some time ago. As it was there was promotion back to the National League and a whisker away from a return to the league -had the club returned to the league it is possible it could stand on its own two feet, given the additional money from the EFL.

I have sympathy for those who say maybe it would be better for this to happen pre-Osborne took over, but personally I wouldn’t have wanted to miss out on that epic season and play off final even if it ultimately wasn’t successful.

I’m not suggesting any gratitude, or sympathy for Osborne by the above - it was a business gamble that didn’t pay off. But I don’t see how that relates to onfield performance.

It’s not Clarke Osborne’s fault the club is now languishing in mid table (pre points deduction) in National League South - that is Gary Johnson’s fault, both for relegation last year and worse the performance this year when he was given a full time playing budget - sure I could accept being behind Yeovil and having a tough competition with top part time sides, but the reality is the season has been utter dross. Regardless of what you think about Clarke Osborne, I don’t possibly see how Gary Johnson can be absolved in any way whatsoever and the fact that club languishes in national league south makes it an even harder proposition to sell and it’s even more of a money pit.

Absolutely blame Clarke Osborne for not sacking Johnson in Jan-23, that I can fully get behind.

Top post! With the full time budgets given to Johnson, any manager with an ounce of ability would have assembled a squad that wouldn't have fallen this far. Should have gone at the start of the January 2023 window.

[kerswellgull]

We are so lucky to have an oracle on this site whose opinions and prophecies are always right

[wbw]

2000 oracles were all saying the same thing. It was hardly a rocket science decision.

[desperado]

Fair enough nobody knows exactly what the budget was this season but surely to God what the likes of Moxey, Hall, Lapslie, Dawson, Halstead, Stobbs, Jarvis, Collins, McGavin are on must dwarf the wages the part timers the likes of Taunton are on.

[Southampton Gull]

Fair enough nobody knows exactly what the budget was this season but surely to God what the likes of Moxey, Hall, Lapslie, Dawson, Halstead, Stobbs, Jarvis, Collins, McGavin are on must dwarf the wages the part timers the likes of Taunton are on.

I don't disagree with you but look at the lack of signings from then on. I think Osborne was already pulling in the reigns from the start of the season. His prerogative of course but that's why we went so long on what we had when every man and his dog could see we needed strengthening, there just simply weren't the funds to do so. Either way I'm not here to defend Johnson. The day Osborne is gone is the day I celebrate. Nothing to do with oracle or being right, it's about never accepting Osborne as some kind of saviour.