Full time V Part Time

[leetufc]

I do not understand the view that crowds would suddenly plummet to a 1000. Even at our lowest this season we have been comfortably above that, and the right setup behind the scenes with better engagement, I can see us maintaing decent crowds. I don't think the majority of fans would suddenly stop supporting the club because they are part time

With bigger crowds than other part time clubs we should be able to compete on wages. Location may be an issue compared to others, but a part time training schedule may mean attracting players from slightly further afield if it means they only have to travel to Torquay 2-3 times per week

[Trucker49]

Without knowing where the money is being spent it is difficult to say where cuts should happen. The TUST will need to explain this at some point if they end up being the preferred bidder. However, given that there are apparently 72 people on the payroll (I think an increase of about 20 in the last 12 months) and probably only about 30 of those are involved in the first team you really would expect the first look to be at what is expendable outside of that. There is no way a club like Torquay needs 40+ staff members that are not involved in the first team (i.e. players, management, coaches etc). What are these people doing? Are they essential jobs? Given the total lack of engagement and, from the outside looking in, nothing has changed in the running of the club since these people were first employed, it would suggest they are potentially fulfilling roles that are not required. As has been mentioned further up redundancies look like they will be required here as a first port of call. Only after that should the full time status be reviewed.

It would be interesting to hear what it costs to have a full time team at this level. I would have thought somewhere in the region of £500,000 to £750,000 for the basic first team squad. Even if it is more than that, where does the rest of the money go? There is obviously the rent and essential bills such as energy and water but these alone are not going to take you over the £2million income threshold. What are the other costs? Has the TUST consortium considered what these are and whether to cut those first? If so, why are they not able to cut them in order to preserve full time football?

This debate is tricky but is made even more so by the fact that there are too many unknowns at this point in relation to costs and where money is being spent. The last thing the consortium should be looking at though is the full time status of the club. Everything else should be fully paired back before this is considered.

[desperado]

Crowds may be higher last few games due to emotional factor but we've been averaging well over 2000 every game , current average 2400.
Only 6 of 22 under that and then 1800ish and that's for a team that's been awful all season
You could argue it's season tickets and we won't sell as many next season, be interesting to see but there does seem to be a hard core 2000 who will go nearly every game come what may.
If the reported monthly wage bill is 100k that obviously must be cut but that must include non playing staff and the players part of it around 70k ?
2 home games a month 2000 x £18 covers that
so where are we leaking all this money - got to be non playing staff, Johnson (a reported 125k)
Edwards ? Pete Johnson ? Downes assistant coach salary was probably on a lot more than the managers in this league.
People say there are no jobs down here to attract part time players but a lot of people work from home now , part time players are not all butchers and bakers these days.

[Cruisinho]

I understand we have to live within our means more, however, let’s not forget last year we made another loss of £1million when we were in the National League. So if we were to ever get promoted from this league, how would we cover the shortfall in what is essentially a full time league.

I know we could cut costs, but I doubt we could cut them by £1mill per year.

[Midlandgull]

I agree with Trucker49 - "without knowing where the money is spent it's difficult to know where cuts should happen". It's certainly unsustainable on the face of it, but what will we discover when we can actually dig into the numbers?

I'm sure we could be smarter with our player acquisitions, contract terms offered and maximising loans in. There has to be scope for reducing costs whilst remaining full-time.

Put really simply, we have to reduce costs yet maximise revenue - a tricky one to navigate! I do feel people will be more engaged with ownership we can trust though and therefore, we may well expect better average crowds as a result.

[numpte]

This is a crapiest team in the history of TUFC period and we still get average 2400! Thats staggering. People are creatures of habit and if they see effort being put on the pitch they will go every other Saturday . Part time WSM were pretty good to watch for large parts of that game yesterday and weve been outplayed by multiple part time teams all season.

TUFC needs a reset, if its part time, so be it.

[United62]

As it seems that we're more than likely to be stuck in the nether regions of non-league football for a while and possibly going part-time, and I cannot believe I'm actually typing this, but would it not be worth looking down the 3g/4g/artificial route? It's an expensive outlay at first (half a million possibly) but there are grants available and many clubs at our level and much further down the pyramid have the dreaded plastic. Once installed it could be a huge(ish) revenue stream for the club.

Just throwing it into the mix. And, before anyone asks, yes, I'd rather still play on grass and, yes, I know that half a million is a big outlay, and, yes, I'd rather stay full-time. But these are unsure times for our beloved club and to make the future sustainable, whoever takes over will need to look at all revenue stream options available.

[desperado]

I think it's the cheaper ones that cost 500k !
The better ones nearer a million ?
I wouldn't want one like Tonbridge have got

[United62]

I have no idea how much they cost, desperado. I was just going on a figure that was doing the rounds when Tonbridge had theirs installed.

Unfortunately, it seems that more and more grassroots football is being played on plastic. It certainly helps with fixtures not being postponed - especially at short notice. But it can also be a useful revenue stream that the club could look into.

But, at the end of the day, this will all come down to what the new prospective owners feel is best for the club.

[Joshtufc]

New accounts have been published for the club. Whether or not we end up as a part time outfit or full time still i can't see how having 72 employees of the club (incl playing staff) is sustainable given our current standing. Majority of these of course will be non playing staff who no doubt work full time but for any company operating at such a loss as we have been I think any sane owner/CEO would look at this and question it. Comparing it to a team like Chelmsford who have operated at this level for a long time the total employees number is 28!

We really do need a full reset everywhere, watching the game yesterday and i think most will agree this is probably the worst TUFC side most of us have seen in our lifetimes.

Can view the PDF and more info here: https://find-and-update.company-informa ... ng-history

[culmstockgull]

I have no idea how much they cost, desperado. I was just going on a figure that was doing the rounds when Tonbridge had theirs installed.

Unfortunately, it seems that more and more grassroots football is being played on plastic. It certainly helps with fixtures not being postponed - especially at short notice. But it can also be a useful revenue stream that the club could look into.

But, at the end of the day, this will all come down to what the new prospective owners feel is best for the club.

Problem with the bills as has been mentioned , we do not know who gets what, but I think a core group of pros are on close to a thousand a week if not more including bonuses and travelling costs. We pay twelve months of salary for 9 months work compounded by only 9 months of revenue, the season end in april/may and doesnt start again until august even with some pre season training in july we are still paying our footballers and backroom staff wages all year round, there is no justification in what ever Johnson was on for him to be doing a three day week and having a full time assistant at this level, I hope Pete Johnson has long since gone as we are under a transfer embargo so even if he found the next ronaldo we couldnt sign him. We supposedly have a fitness coach who isnt doing the job for the love of it and anyway when part time teams show up at plainmoor with higher fitness levels you have to question the need for him.
I also think the various insurances, leasehold charges, utility bills, we seem to water even if its been raining half an hour before a match, HMRC, VAT, etc etc take up a goodly amount and they are not something you can reduce by much.

[desperado]

The high earners will be gone next season. Hall, Moxey, Dawson, Halstead, Lapslie,
Stobbs, McGavin , Jarvis....
That will save us a packet.

[numpte]

Part time ok -plastic pitch - no way. Awful to watch games on them let alone play on.

[wodger of awabia]

I do not understand the view that crowds would suddenly plummet to a 1000. Even at our lowest this season we have been comfortably above that, and the right setup behind the scenes with better engagement, I can see us maintaing decent crowds. I don't think the majority of fans would suddenly stop supporting the club because they are part time

With bigger crowds than other part time clubs we should be able to compete on wages. Location may be an issue compared to others, but a part time training schedule may mean attracting players from slightly further afield if it means they only have to travel to Torquay 2-3 times per week

“ Location maybe an issue “

IMO the football side of the club needs to be located in and around Birmingham and the West Midlands where a wealth of players are located. The players can be bused down to Plainmoor on match days. Part time players players won’t travel far to Torquay to train, and certainly won’t move down here.

[Nick Potkins]

I have a number of times talked of moving training towards Bristol. Location to me remains part of the problem. We need to attract a greater number of players. A 3g / 4g pitch is a must at our level. This could be used 365 days a year and help address our financial shortcomings. A great coffee shop, will again make a decent amount of money from parents watching children play. Full or part time is a tough call, but we need to cut our cloth.