Potential Buyers

[Southampton Gull]

Dave,

How would you finance full time football?

The same way Mike Bateson managed to do it.

It would help if we had a decent accountant for a start.

[Dave]

One of the biggest problems amongst us the fanbase right now, is we are far, far to fixated on the £1million year losses that were being racked up, NO, £1 million a year loses do NOT come automatically within the territory of running a full time club at TUFC.

Under CO it appears the club was spending ridiculous amounts of money for no return in value , please forgive me if I'm wrong here, but don't we have a full time media department ? If so a total waste.

Covered this so many times, there's no doubt in my mind that Johnson, Downes and Johnson would have been costing our club a kings ransom, then I look around from 40 minutes to about 1.5 hours drive of TUFC and I see 4 managers of part-time clubs Paul Wotton (Truro) Rob Bray (Taunton) Scott Bartlett(WSM) even though I believe he's no longer at the club (Bobby Wilkinson) Weymouth, All recruited better than us, produced part-time teams who've looked fitter, better organised and well drilled. Some ask what managers could we attract well there's 4 right on our doorstep who done pretty well on significantly less resources than us, and would cost this club a lot less money than GJ.

Some say we have to move the training up country, I don't agree. Lets look at Truro, if TUFC hadn't have been deducted 10 points, Truro would be sat 9 points behind us, with us still to play and 4 games in hand, their location is worse than ours, where have they got their players from ?

Yesterday one of the best players on the park and got the first WSM goal No3 Jordan Bastin, certainly a better left footer than anything we've got was signed by WSM from Elmore, their No4 Lloyd Humphries who at times had total control of the midfield, stood head and shoulders above McGavin and Lapslie is a Welshman not sure where he's based but is playing part-time for Weston and their centre back No6 Raphael Araoye again stood stronger than ours is on loan from Bristol City this shows just how it can be done, these types of players who are clearly available right here in the South West would cost less than some of the over hyped full timers we've got, mixed with better sourced loan players that these part-time managers named seemed to be able to get hold of.

So be more efficient with the amounts of money we spend, and what we spend it on. There is no real for a sugar daddy.

Better engagement with the fanbase and community at large, back at the online Q/A Mel Hayman said 'things like the £2 match day surcharge and cashless turnstiles were measures to keep the match day ques down' When I heard that nearly fell off my chair, football is an entertainment business and like retail relies heavily on footfall, you've got have the mind of a mad man to bring in measures to discourage footfall .

Remove what I've mentioned with a better all round match day experience, because for many it is a day out as well as football, and your gates figures go up.

Remaining full time is a must, I believe it could be done, by means as set out in my post regards more controlled spending, and spending in the right areas as a priority, however at the end of the process, if the only show in town, is TUST/investor and part time football, with our club remaining in tact , it's fine by me, I'll support it , and I would buy into any community share issue as I've said all along.

[RedGull1902]

Dave , that’s it 100% end of

[Guildford Gull]

Great post Dave.

I do wonder if the TUST have considered whether savings to running costs could be made without resorting to a part time model.

[happytorq]

There's so much money the club have been leaving on the proverbial table in the past few years, mostly through neglect; of the facilities, of the customers/fans, and of the matchday experience. If you make the place more appealing, you'll get more people through the gates, and if you do the matchday thing right, you'll get each person who does show up to spend more money. That million quid a year loss figure that's getting bandied about surely doesn't tell the whole story. We don't know how much is being spent on players, or how much Johnson was costing, and, most pertinently, we don't know how much of that number is CO's desperate attempt to get the stadium plans off the ground.

Yes it's tough to make full time football work at the lower levels, but we should not expect a 7 figure loss every season to be normal. With a well run club you could *probably* reduce that by at least two thirds.

I have doubts, like Dave, that part time is the way go. It's an easy leap to make - "we're losing money, what costs a lot of money, oh the players, well, let's just not pay them as much" - but for me that would be short-sighted and an almost immediate admission that we don't ever expect to be a League side again. I also don't think it's feasible to look at other part time teams and assume that we'd be able to get PT players of the same quality. Our location issues are well known- it's been a theme for as long I can remember - but Devon generally isn't the place to be if you want a high income, and that means that there isn't the same number of players who could play professional football if they wanted to, but for whom it doesn't make financial sense.

I obviously don't know what resources Michael Westcott's group has, but unless whoever takes over expects to lose a non-insignificant amount of money (call it £300k a year for 5 years, so £1.5m) I don't see a way back from NLS. Trying to put the club into profit or break-even from day 1 seems wildly unreasonable to me. I'd agree that club should work towards sustainability, but that takes time, and with each passing year you should be getting that bit closer. If you can engage the trust and (i've been banging this drum for a while) get them to 1,000 members each paying £20 a month, that's almost a further quarter mill a year that help that sustainability drive. At the very minimum we should targeting NL again with two (ideally one) seasons, because once there our revenue goes up a notch, and - crucially - I don't think a full time team in NLS would be paying much less than NL players would be expecting, on average. I also wonder if being a part-time side would limit the types of loans we could get in. We've had some really good loans in the past few seasons, and i'd not be surprised of not fully professional would make league clubs steer away. (I could be wrong ehre, this is merely thinking aloud)

Yesterday one of the best players on the park and got the first WSM goal No3 Jordan Bastin, certainly a better left footer than anything we've got was signed by WSM from Elmore, their No4 Lloyd Humphries who at times had total control of the midfield, stood head and shoulders above McGavin and Lapslie is a Welshman not sure where he's based but is playing part-time for Weston and their centre back No6 Raphael Araoye again stood stronger than ours is on loan from Bristol City this shows just how it can be done, these types of players who are clearly available right here in the South West would cost less than some of the over hyped full timers we've got, mixed with better sourced loan players that these part-time managers named seemed to be able to get hold of.

I may have to disagree a bit here, though - we've tried to bring in 'local' players from part-time sides before. Keelan O'Connell, Gabby Rodgers, even Austen Booth this season. None of these 3 (jury still out on the latter) lit the place up. I also don't think looking at midfielders who control the midfielder better than McGavin or Lapslie is the level we should be looking for.

[ALTE]

I was behìnd this consortium until part time was mentioned as their plan. Absolutely not now, we need to get out of this league next season, not in 5 years time of finding good enough players who are willing to play part time. Sounds like a recipe for falling even further. We are not near london where theres an excess of good players with good careers in other jobs.

[culmstockgull]

I think that we are pretty close to financing full time football. Unfortunately what we can afford doesn't seem to be as good as the part time players that we are up against.

This is more about getting the right players and we havent had that luxury for best part of two seasons, you could get by with less players as long as they are not injury prone, we seem to take that descriptive to extremes , just of the top of my head I can count six of our squad that fit that criteria with several more getting hpnourable mentions, one maybe two I can understand , but we get more injuries in training than some teams do during a match. You need a strong spine something else we do not believe in, after that plenty of good quality loans, ten boyd's would do us.

[brucie]

If we go part time we are going nowhere thats a dead cert.

[knightmaregull]

I was behìnd this consortium until part time was mentioned as their plan. Absolutely not now, we need to get out of this league next season, not in 5 years time of finding good enough players who are willing to play part time. Sounds like a recipe for falling even further. We are not near london where theres an excess of good players with good careers in other jobs.

So, genuine question, if there end up being 2 horses - 1. The consortium of local people / the TUST who feel an initial period of part time football is needed to get the club back on a solid footing and 2. a Pete Masters / Clarke Osborne / George Edwards type committing to full time football but no visibility on how they will.run the club / involve the fans etc who would be the preference?

This is all of course completely hypothetical until it's revealed what bidders there are but it's perhaps not wildly improbable that this could be the situation.

[Southampton Gull]

Should all be very easy then.

Did Mike Bateson ever state running TUFC was easy?

Your flippant response shows where your mind has gone. Hard work, astute business decisions and reinvestment in vital areas of the club doesn't come easy but look where the couldn't care less model has gotten us. Community involvement has been severely lacking for years and years. The whole business model has alienated fans, locals and local businesses for as long as I can remember and we've become embarrassingly short sighted.

There are plenty of clever people ready and willing to put in the hard work to raise the profile of the club but hey you've met the guy who wants to do it on the cheap and he seems, in your opinion, to be a clever chap and wants TUST involved. So that's all good then. If and when TUST can show they have enough support from the fans and have accrued the necessary finances to be useful then they aren't a viable option. For me they are nowhere near where they need to be, they're almost a mirror of other areas of the club that have been neglected. Random meaningless statements from barely recognisable people with a higher turnover of people than a failing Premiership football team don't inspire much confidence that they have what it takes to aid our return to League football. I'll support the club no matter what level we're at but if we have proper ambitions to return to the Football League then this proposed model isn't going to do it.

[greb46]

Mike Bateson knew the limitations of the club but was an astute businessman,sold players on when he saw a profit but also purchased new players within means .He didn't overspend but also saved where he could so more money could be ploughed into the team.He was an owner not looking to make from the club as so many have done since and due to this sustained then fourth division football regularly .The club moving forward has to be supported financially whoever takes it over.The worry is if you have many directors then they all have different opinions in which way to go and potentially it leads to arguments in which rather than benefitting the club could end up stymying it.

[exilegull]

Mike Bateson existed in a different era when most of the Conference was part time and there wasn’t the professionalism that many of the smaller part time clubs have today. He still injected his own money, there was the prize money from being in the football league, transfer revenue as others have said as well as revenue from the odd cup run. Even then it was often hand to mouth with not a small amount of luck a long the way.

If there is no one waiting in the wings now who is prepared to dip into their own pocket to provide a minimum of £500k per year (and I’d expect it to be more) then there is zero choice in going part time - a clever accountant cannot magic cash from thin air. Any buyers will have to demonstrate they have a financial plan to keep the club solvent for the next year.

[Southampton Gull]

Your idea has already been shown to fail. By being prudent, by being proactive and by being professional there are plenty of examples to show staying professional is the way forward. We don't have the united fan base that other clubs do. Professional or wither away and die.

[exilegull]

It’s academic Dave - if neither of the bidders can prove they have the funds to financially support a business plan that allows for a full-time squad it cannot happen. They need the cash available and committed now and as seems apparent neither of the bidders have that additional £500k+ available. Neither the administrators overseeing the bidding process or the National League will accept bidders who don’t have a developed financing plan that ensures the club can remain solvent for at least 12 months ahead.

[TUST_Official]

There are plenty of clever people ready and willing to put in the hard work to raise the profile of the club but hey you've met the guy who wants to do it on the cheap and he seems, in your opinion, to be a clever chap and wants TUST involved. So that's all good then. If and when TUST can show they have enough support from the fans and have accrued the necessary finances to be useful then they aren't a viable option. For me they are nowhere near where they need to be, they're almost a mirror of other areas of the club that have been neglected. Random meaningless statements from barely recognisable people with a higher turnover of people than a failing Premiership football team don't inspire much confidence that they have what it takes to aid our return to League football. I'll support the club no matter what level we're at but if we have proper ambitions to return to the Football League then this proposed model isn't going to do it.]

Dave, we are sorry that you feel that our statements are meaningless. That is a shame as we always aim to be as informative and accurate as possible, based solely on fact. We have to challenge your assertion that there is a high turnover of TUST people. No one has left the TUST board for at least four years and the only additions in the past three years have been three members co-opted the day after Osborne's announcement to bring their experience to the table. Whilst none of the board are 'celebrities' with egos to match, most of us are known to supporters around Plainmoor and on social media. We are always happy to be approached in person or contacted via our email or website.

Finally, it is worth repeating that the TUST board members and our consortium would happily step aside and support a successful bid from someone who has greater financial capacity to take on the club as long as they have a sustainable plan for the future which includes engagement with fans and the wider community.